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ptrowski
Got Helix?
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join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
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1 recommendation

We've passed Peak Apple....

»www.guardian.co.uk/technology/20···ak-apple

Interesting article, I agree with a good portion of it.

Daemon
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Berkeley, CA
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said by ptrowski:

»www.guardian.co.uk/technology/20···ak-apple

Interesting article, I agree with a good portion of it.

The central premise of his Maps argument is flawed. Apple dumped google maps because google would not allow turn-by-turn and injected ads into searches (and wanted to add more). They dumped google precisely because they wanted a better experience for users.

Axeing Forstall and elevating Ive was about replacing Steve with someone who has great vision and product design. Tim is not that guy and I think he realizes it. He may have the CEO title behind him now, but he's still the ops guy.

People have been writing this same story for years and years now, and every time all of them have been wrong. The number of stories you see coincides with drops in the stock price when people get scared. Often, one huge quarterly earnings season sends the stock back on a tear.

We'll see how it turns out-after all, peak Microsoft was right when Bill Gates left. But this article is just wild speculation based on scant evidence.
--
-Ryan
I use Linux, OS X, iOS and Windows. Let the OS wars die.


Mike
Premium,Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:1
I disagree. Scott Forstal will be gone and Ive will clean it up.


Nezmo
The name's Bond. James Bond.
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join:2004-11-10
Coppell, TX
kudos:1
reply to Daemon
said by Daemon:

said by ptrowski:

»www.guardian.co.uk/technology/20···ak-apple

Interesting article, I agree with a good portion of it.

The central premise of his Maps argument is flawed. Apple dumped google maps because google would not allow turn-by-turn and injected ads into searches (and wanted to add more). They dumped google precisely because they wanted a better experience for users.

Axeing Forstall and elevating Ive was about replacing Steve with someone who has great vision and product design. Tim is not that guy and I think he realizes it. He may have the CEO title behind him now, but he's still the ops guy.

People have been writing this same story for years and years now, and every time all of them have been wrong. The number of stories you see coincides with drops in the stock price when people get scared. Often, one huge quarterly earnings season sends the stock back on a tear.

We'll see how it turns out-after all, peak Microsoft was right when Bill Gates left. But this article is just wild speculation based on scant evidence.

I think you have some valid points. I think your comment about the Maps is partly correct; they wanted to make a better experience but it was also done because they have a palpable hatred of Google (despite having to back down later and suggest their stuff while they fix Apple Maps). And having maps provided by Google does not fit the total control model Apple wants. YouTube the same.

I think Cook does realize he's not Steve and wants Ive to put back some pizzazz in to things that has been lacking lately.

I do, however, believe that Apple is now in a long-term, mid to slow downturn. I expect to see some more ups in the stock but IMHO Apple is now on the slow decline from it's pedestal.
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Brendan
Warr Guitar is here

join:2000-07-14
Littleton, CO
Slow decline? The share price has collapsed 18% in 6 weeks. It'll collapse to around $400 in no time.


DarkSithPro

join:2005-02-12
Tempe, AZ
kudos:2
reply to ptrowski
If Apple was smart, they would buy out ASUS!


Rob
In Deo speramus.
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Kendall, FL
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Reviews:
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reply to ptrowski
At least for me, while I like my iPhone, I'm turned off my Apple's continue lawsuits. What happened with winning through competition, and not through lawsuits?
--
CheckSite.us | YourIP.us | Reverseip.us


ptrowski
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reply to Daemon
A bit more to follow up with...

»www.sfgate.com/technology/busine···9856.php


J E F F
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reply to Brendan
said by Brendan:

Slow decline? The share price has collapsed 18% in 6 weeks. It'll collapse to around $400 in no time.

20% from its peak.

Apple has changed violently from last year.

I have an iPhone 4 which has become useless. Seems to be an app I have, (I have no idea which one) that crashes the device. It's been repaired professionally, exchanged, restores, resets (wipe), etc. Still crashes. In particular, the apps that crash the most are the Phone app (the iPhone phone app, the default one), twitter, etc. If I don't put anything on the phone, no crashes. As soon as I restore from iCloud, device is a brick. I've even gone as far as to remove all non-essential apps and data (all pictures and videos and music) and done a reset (none wipe, just wipe all settings), back-up, do a full wipe, DFU, restore (in that order) and restore last back-up from iCloud and the piece of shit still crashes. It's a iOS 6 issue, since it never crashed before that update.

Patiently waiting for BB10 to come out, and if it is half decent, I'm bailing.

Although I will be keeping the MacBooks because I'll never go back to Windows. (windows 8 is okay, but still no OS X)

Apple made their cash off of the iPhone, well, the majority of it, and they have seemed to have lost their focus on delivery a quality OS for their iDevice. It's a shame.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein

Kearnstd
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reply to DarkSithPro
said by DarkSithPro:

If Apple was smart, they would buy out ASUS!

Asus likely would not sell which would lead Apple down the hostile takeover route.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

Daemon
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reply to Nezmo
said by Nezmo:

I do, however, believe that Apple is now in a long-term, mid to slow downturn. I expect to see some more ups in the stock but IMHO Apple is now on the slow decline from it's pedestal.

So you agree with me that the evidence in the article isn't strong, then agree with the central premise of the article? What are you using as your evidence? Just a gut feeling?
--
-Ryan
I use Linux, OS X, iOS and Windows. Let the OS wars die.


Nezmo
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1 recommendation

said by Daemon:

said by Nezmo:

I do, however, believe that Apple is now in a long-term, mid to slow downturn. I expect to see some more ups in the stock but IMHO Apple is now on the slow decline from it's pedestal.

So you agree with me that the evidence in the article isn't strong, then agree with the central premise of the article? What are you using as your evidence? Just a gut feeling?

If I had evidence I'd be very rich. I'm no different from everyone else guessing and speculating. I am simply offering an opinion.
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ptrowski
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reply to Daemon
said by Daemon:

said by Nezmo:

I do, however, believe that Apple is now in a long-term, mid to slow downturn. I expect to see some more ups in the stock but IMHO Apple is now on the slow decline from it's pedestal.

So you agree with me that the evidence in the article isn't strong, then agree with the central premise of the article? What are you using as your evidence? Just a gut feeling?

It's speculation as to the real reason about the Maps debacle. No one outside of Apple truly knows, so slow the roll a bit.
--
"So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."

Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org

NefCanuck

join:2007-06-26
Mississauga, ON
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reply to J E F F
said by J E F F:

said by Brendan:

Slow decline? The share price has collapsed 18% in 6 weeks. It'll collapse to around $400 in no time.

I have an iPhone 4 which has become useless. Seems to be an app I have, (I have no idea which one) that crashes the device. It's been repaired professionally, exchanged, restores, resets (wipe), etc. Still crashes. In particular, the apps that crash the most are the Phone app (the iPhone phone app, the default one), twitter, etc. If I don't put anything on the phone, no crashes. As soon as I restore from iCloud, device is a brick. I've even gone as far as to remove all non-essential apps and data (all pictures and videos and music) and done a reset (none wipe, just wipe all settings), back-up, do a full wipe, DFU, restore (in that order) and restore last back-up from iCloud and the piece of shit still crashes. It's a iOS 6 issue, since it never crashed before that update.

Here's a question. Are any of the apps that you added to the phone the kind that do any sort of "keep alive" function?

I've found that since iOS6 anything like that *may* cause issues until it is either updated or you manually kill that program (I have a VoIP program on my iPhone that caused issues until it was updated and a program that I use to monitor my sleep pattern that I have to force kill when I wake up otherwise it kills the battery and causes all sorts of other fun issues,

NefCanuck

Daemon
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1 edit
reply to ptrowski
said by ptrowski:

It's speculation as to the real reason about the Maps debacle. No one outside of Apple truly knows, so slow the roll a bit.

Not trying to start a fight here--was just genuinely curious if Nezmo See Profile had more thinking beyond what he/she had already said.

In my speculative opinion, the stock price drive we're seeing is just the first manifestation of the fear that now that Steve Jobs is gone the company is going to fall into mediocrity. I suspect people felt fine at first because the company's momentum carried it in the exact same direction it was just before he died. Now that Forstall is out and the mini pricing was higher than expected, people are starting to see Cook do things differently and the uncertainty (the great enemy of wall street) is manifesting.

Now everyone is piling on, including an article on Slate today. It's just a bunch of bandwagon jumping that seems a little bit over blown. Firing an executive does not cause a company to collapse-- typically it should be viewed as a bullish sign that the executive team is willing to keep moving forward instead of crashing into politics and poor performance.

I think there was also a ton of newbie investors jumping on the Apple share bandwagon that are now freaked and are getting out as soon as they can. That will eventually end where there are no more newbies to remove and the selling pressure will stop. If I'm right, in 6 months or so sentiment will flip and the stock price, while maybe not at all-time highs, will be growing again.

Note that a 20% drop in the stock price = a 20% rise in the dividend yield.
--
-Ryan
I use Linux, OS X, iOS and Windows. Let the OS wars die.


J E F F
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reply to NefCanuck
I manually shut everything down. I have a sleep program too, not sure if it is the same one. Anyway, I just deleted my iCloud, will re-register it on the iPhone, re-back-up, do a full reset, and do a restore from that iCloud.

However, everything I read in the Apple Support Community points that the iPhone 4 isn't compatible with Teh™ iOS 6. Problem apps are The FaceBook, Twitter (which can be deleted), Messages and the Phone App (which cannot be deleted, but an iPhone isn't a phone without the phone app).

Apple has lost a lot of market share in the superphone market, it's because their quality of software has dropped off significantly over the past 10 months or so. If this isn't solved by January 1st (for tax purposes), I'm ditching my provider and will pay the ECF and put the iPhone through the company shredder and buy a BB or Samsung. Even my PlayBook when it first came out didn't give me this many issues.

I do however have the suspicion that whenever restoring from iCloud it is putting on info that shouldn't be there which is causing issues.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein

NefCanuck

join:2007-06-26
Mississauga, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms
... that's the difference maybe cause I stayed the hell away from iFraud because I want my data to stay in my control.

I've never trusted could services with anything of mine that I can't afford to lose and have a NAS in RAID 1 config.

Maybe you should try dumping iCloud for a bit after resetting the phone and doing local only backups.

NefCanuck


J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
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Local back-ups was what I used first. DFU restore in fact. Didn't work. So I'm at a loss to what else to try.

But thinking about that, if the local back-up didn't work, then I shouldn't have an expectation that the iCloud should work.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein


Nezmo
The name's Bond. James Bond.
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join:2004-11-10
Coppell, TX
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1 recommendation

reply to ptrowski
Apple has quit wowing the market. That's the reason they are now on the down slide. That and their obvious missteps lately. It's just the usual cycle. I have many Apple products and until a recent order in progress for my kids there was only one Android device in the house (one of my kids has an Inspire). My recent order is two Kindle Fire HDs as the iPad Mini is overpriced and technically is kind of weak. It was a significant decision given the Apple ecosystem I'm already in but Apple drove me way this time.

I've been an Apple supporter through my past purchases. But it's getting less compelling for me now. That's just me but I'm an average guy. I'm willing to bet there are many like me.
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Teasip

join:2001-05-14
Plano, TX
reply to ptrowski
I'm still on the 3G 8GB phone, out of contract, and have been ready to upgrade (as well as the wife who has the same phone). I've never had an Android but the Samsung Galaxy III on the television commercials have caught my eye. Opinions?

Badonkadonk
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Naperville, IL
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I have a GS3. The body is certainly not as elegant looking as the iPhone. But the larger screen is far nicer to have, if you don't mind the physical form factor. One handed operation is possible once you get used to it, but it's certainly not as easy as on the iPhone. The screen, even though it's a pentile, is very nice.

The GS3 is the best selling phone in the world. But I'd be lying if I said I knew why. It's good, but is it that far superior to the HTC One series phones? I don't think so, except for marketing reasons (funny, huh). I prefer the higher end HTC. Those are my favorite phones.

Also, the flexibility, openness and tinkerability of the Android ecosystem will always win me over. That's purely a personal preference.
--
Awesome. More handouts, food stamps, welfare and entitlements to come. I'm so proud.


norbert26
Premium
join:2010-08-10
Warwick, RI
reply to J E F F
i have an iP4 running 6.01 and have not any problems with it EXCEPT for a few glitches with the siriusXM streaming APP that is corrected by a simple phone reboot. I was having a freeze problem on a game but it corrected itself with 6.01 . Also i have iCloud turned off. I just do local backups to iTunes .

SHOtime

join:2001-12-04
Bedford, IN

1 recommendation

reply to ptrowski
My wife just moved to the GS3 after having three previous models (3G, 3GS and 4). She was looking forward to the Iphone 5 but she was not impressed. A still tiny screen, new connector and what she considered an odd feel in the hand turned her off.

We took a look at a few phones and the GS3 immediately jumped out at her. She loves the larger screen (much better for pictures and websites) and the rounded back fit better into her hand. So far she has been completely happy with her decision to switch.

My daughter is in the same situation. She currently has an Iphone 4 and an open upgrade. She is begging to ditch the Iphone for the new Lumia 920.

I think a few things are beginning to slowly work against Apple.

The Iphone can no longer be considered a status symbol when everyone has one. When you can get an Iphone for free on contract the argument "you would have an Iphone if you can afford one", no longer holds water.
I think more people are looking and seeing what the Iphone is lacking compared to the competion in terms of screen size, customization and interaction and seeing that other phones more fit their style and tastes. The one size fits all approach by Apple only works if there are no viable options. That is no longer the case.
Finally, in the last few Iphone models there have been some real and embarassing oversights in the quality department. Antennae issues, failed updates, wifi troubles, the maps debacle, excessive call data usage, the lightning connector and the camera glare just to name a few. The shine on the Apple is faded a bit. The brand is built on the idea of a completely polished product that "just works". When it doesnt "just work", people take notice. Reputation is extremely hard to build but very easily torn apart.


J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
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reply to norbert26
I think it might be the iCloud that is causing the issues, but I need to have a back-up for business purposes. As I said, I can swap over on January 1st.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein

Badonkadonk
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reply to SHOtime
I would have gotten the Lumia 920 if they hadn't taken so darn long to release it and I hadn't been so sick of my Blackberry. Certainly, a Windows phone is next on my list.
--
Awesome. More handouts, food stamps, welfare and entitlements to come. I'm so proud.


norbert26
Premium
join:2010-08-10
Warwick, RI
said by Badonkadonk:

I would have gotten the Lumia 920 if they hadn't taken so darn long to release it and I hadn't been so sick of my Blackberry. Certainly, a Windows phone is next on my list.

in two weeks i have an open update window. I am very seriously on the fence with these thoughts. I am NOT too impressed with iPhone 5 which resembles a choo choo train. They did not make the screen wider they just made it longer. I have gone to the Apple store and held it in my hand and was luke warm on it. Since i will need a new case and holster i am considering other phones as well including the samsung galaxy 3 or even a Windows 8 phone is "on the table". Another option is to just SIT and hold on the iP4 for a bit longer . regardless of what i do i would like the next handset to last a while as far as future proof and not be obsolete one year from now and not churn churn churn however this may be hard as the industry (not just apple) thrives on churn .

Badonkadonk
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It's hard to future proof technology like phones. I used to think about it before, but have given up. With my family, after 2 years, everyone always wants a change.
--
Awesome. More handouts, food stamps, welfare and entitlements to come. I'm so proud.


norbert26
Premium
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Warwick, RI
said by Badonkadonk:

It's hard to future proof technology like phones. I used to think about it before, but have given up. With my family, after 2 years, everyone always wants a change.

that is the truth. I try to think like that before leaping but every two years i have been upgrading anyways. Like you said what i do now i will be tired of it in two years so let me stop trying to kid myself.


djrobx
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Valencia, CA
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reply to SHOtime

Antennae issues, failed updates, wifi troubles, the maps debacle, excessive call data usage, the lightning connector and the camera glare

Putting new iProducts under the microscope and making an ordeal about something wrong with them is nothing new.

My original iPhone was great compared to things I'd used previously, but it used to crash back to the home screen all the time. Today's problems are a perceived downgrade of the maps app (which for me wasn't a total downgrade, I find the turn-by-turn feature very useful when traveling), and a purple lens flare when holding the phone directly into sunlight, which I haven't been able to reproduce.

You'll know for sure that Apple has jumped the shark when people quit making a big deal about glitches.

I'm a lot more annoyed by Mountain Lion not running on my perfectly good Mac Pro 1,1 simply because they want to strong-arm me into buying new hardware. That issue has me considering either going the hackintosh route or simply going back to Windows. I also agree with Rob that Apple needs to watch their behavior in terms of lawsuits.

As for a lack of revolutionary new products, I don't think Apple ever did that with a fast cadence. I don't even think the iPad required a ton of creative vision, it's just a large iPhone. The Retina Macbook Pro tells me they're still somewhat on track. High resolution PC displays with fully working DPI compensation in the OS is something way overdue and I'm glad Apple has finally made it a reality.
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Badonkadonk
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1 recommendation

Fanboys will always be fanboys and suck up Apple stuff. But for those with a more discerning opinion, as long as Apple behaves like it's magical shit they're producing, people will call them on it when it isn't.

People make a big deal about glitches from all manufacturers. It's only amplified because Apple first denies and then has to come to terms with the fallout. Again, if you're promising magic and you're not delivering, you'll get called on it. No matter the company--don't think it's because Apple is so fantastic. It's just that non-Apple people are more than willing to throw their tech providers under the bus for messing up even in little ways. Whereas Apple fanboys don't want to admit that the product is, just possibly, not living up to the magical standards. It reminds me of the Emperor's New Clothes story.
--
Awesome. More handouts, food stamps, welfare and entitlements to come. I'm so proud.