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Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network
reply to Teasip

Re: We've passed Peak Apple....

I have a GS3. The body is certainly not as elegant looking as the iPhone. But the larger screen is far nicer to have, if you don't mind the physical form factor. One handed operation is possible once you get used to it, but it's certainly not as easy as on the iPhone. The screen, even though it's a pentile, is very nice.

The GS3 is the best selling phone in the world. But I'd be lying if I said I knew why. It's good, but is it that far superior to the HTC One series phones? I don't think so, except for marketing reasons (funny, huh). I prefer the higher end HTC. Those are my favorite phones.

Also, the flexibility, openness and tinkerability of the Android ecosystem will always win me over. That's purely a personal preference.
--
Awesome. More handouts, food stamps, welfare and entitlements to come. I'm so proud.


norbert26
Premium
join:2010-08-10
Warwick, RI
reply to J E F F
i have an iP4 running 6.01 and have not any problems with it EXCEPT for a few glitches with the siriusXM streaming APP that is corrected by a simple phone reboot. I was having a freeze problem on a game but it corrected itself with 6.01 . Also i have iCloud turned off. I just do local backups to iTunes .

SHOtime

join:2001-12-04
Bedford, IN

1 recommendation

reply to ptrowski
My wife just moved to the GS3 after having three previous models (3G, 3GS and 4). She was looking forward to the Iphone 5 but she was not impressed. A still tiny screen, new connector and what she considered an odd feel in the hand turned her off.

We took a look at a few phones and the GS3 immediately jumped out at her. She loves the larger screen (much better for pictures and websites) and the rounded back fit better into her hand. So far she has been completely happy with her decision to switch.

My daughter is in the same situation. She currently has an Iphone 4 and an open upgrade. She is begging to ditch the Iphone for the new Lumia 920.

I think a few things are beginning to slowly work against Apple.

The Iphone can no longer be considered a status symbol when everyone has one. When you can get an Iphone for free on contract the argument "you would have an Iphone if you can afford one", no longer holds water.
I think more people are looking and seeing what the Iphone is lacking compared to the competion in terms of screen size, customization and interaction and seeing that other phones more fit their style and tastes. The one size fits all approach by Apple only works if there are no viable options. That is no longer the case.
Finally, in the last few Iphone models there have been some real and embarassing oversights in the quality department. Antennae issues, failed updates, wifi troubles, the maps debacle, excessive call data usage, the lightning connector and the camera glare just to name a few. The shine on the Apple is faded a bit. The brand is built on the idea of a completely polished product that "just works". When it doesnt "just work", people take notice. Reputation is extremely hard to build but very easily torn apart.


J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
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join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Rogers Portable ..
reply to norbert26
I think it might be the iCloud that is causing the issues, but I need to have a back-up for business purposes. As I said, I can swap over on January 1st.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network
reply to SHOtime
I would have gotten the Lumia 920 if they hadn't taken so darn long to release it and I hadn't been so sick of my Blackberry. Certainly, a Windows phone is next on my list.
--
Awesome. More handouts, food stamps, welfare and entitlements to come. I'm so proud.


norbert26
Premium
join:2010-08-10
Warwick, RI
said by Badonkadonk:

I would have gotten the Lumia 920 if they hadn't taken so darn long to release it and I hadn't been so sick of my Blackberry. Certainly, a Windows phone is next on my list.

in two weeks i have an open update window. I am very seriously on the fence with these thoughts. I am NOT too impressed with iPhone 5 which resembles a choo choo train. They did not make the screen wider they just made it longer. I have gone to the Apple store and held it in my hand and was luke warm on it. Since i will need a new case and holster i am considering other phones as well including the samsung galaxy 3 or even a Windows 8 phone is "on the table". Another option is to just SIT and hold on the iP4 for a bit longer . regardless of what i do i would like the next handset to last a while as far as future proof and not be obsolete one year from now and not churn churn churn however this may be hard as the industry (not just apple) thrives on churn .

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network
It's hard to future proof technology like phones. I used to think about it before, but have given up. With my family, after 2 years, everyone always wants a change.
--
Awesome. More handouts, food stamps, welfare and entitlements to come. I'm so proud.


norbert26
Premium
join:2010-08-10
Warwick, RI
said by Badonkadonk:

It's hard to future proof technology like phones. I used to think about it before, but have given up. With my family, after 2 years, everyone always wants a change.

that is the truth. I try to think like that before leaping but every two years i have been upgrading anyways. Like you said what i do now i will be tired of it in two years so let me stop trying to kid myself.


djrobx
Premium
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VOIPO
reply to SHOtime

Antennae issues, failed updates, wifi troubles, the maps debacle, excessive call data usage, the lightning connector and the camera glare

Putting new iProducts under the microscope and making an ordeal about something wrong with them is nothing new.

My original iPhone was great compared to things I'd used previously, but it used to crash back to the home screen all the time. Today's problems are a perceived downgrade of the maps app (which for me wasn't a total downgrade, I find the turn-by-turn feature very useful when traveling), and a purple lens flare when holding the phone directly into sunlight, which I haven't been able to reproduce.

You'll know for sure that Apple has jumped the shark when people quit making a big deal about glitches.

I'm a lot more annoyed by Mountain Lion not running on my perfectly good Mac Pro 1,1 simply because they want to strong-arm me into buying new hardware. That issue has me considering either going the hackintosh route or simply going back to Windows. I also agree with Rob that Apple needs to watch their behavior in terms of lawsuits.

As for a lack of revolutionary new products, I don't think Apple ever did that with a fast cadence. I don't even think the iPad required a ton of creative vision, it's just a large iPhone. The Retina Macbook Pro tells me they're still somewhat on track. High resolution PC displays with fully working DPI compensation in the OS is something way overdue and I'm glad Apple has finally made it a reality.
--
AT&T U-Hearse - RIP Unlimited Internet 1995-2011
Rethink Billable.

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
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1 recommendation

Fanboys will always be fanboys and suck up Apple stuff. But for those with a more discerning opinion, as long as Apple behaves like it's magical shit they're producing, people will call them on it when it isn't.

People make a big deal about glitches from all manufacturers. It's only amplified because Apple first denies and then has to come to terms with the fallout. Again, if you're promising magic and you're not delivering, you'll get called on it. No matter the company--don't think it's because Apple is so fantastic. It's just that non-Apple people are more than willing to throw their tech providers under the bus for messing up even in little ways. Whereas Apple fanboys don't want to admit that the product is, just possibly, not living up to the magical standards. It reminds me of the Emperor's New Clothes story.
--
Awesome. More handouts, food stamps, welfare and entitlements to come. I'm so proud.

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to Rob
said by Rob:

At least for me, while I like my iPhone, I'm turned off my Apple's continue lawsuits. What happened with winning through competition, and not through lawsuits?

They realized they could not maintain the lead they once had. Naturally they bust out the lawsuits. Sad state of business but that seems to be how portable computing works today, Can't beat em then sue em.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

Daemon
Premium
join:2003-06-29
Berkeley, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast
·webpass.net

1 recommendation

reply to Badonkadonk
said by Badonkadonk:

Fanboys will always be fanboys and suck up Apple stuff. But for those with a more discerning opinion, as long as Apple behaves like it's magical shit they're producing, people will call them on it when it isn't.

People make a big deal about glitches from all manufacturers. It's only amplified because Apple first denies and then has to come to terms with the fallout. Again, if you're promising magic and you're not delivering, you'll get called on it. No matter the company--don't think it's because Apple is so fantastic. It's just that non-Apple people are more than willing to throw their tech providers under the bus for messing up even in little ways. Whereas Apple fanboys don't want to admit that the product is, just possibly, not living up to the magical standards. It reminds me of the Emperor's New Clothes story.

Can you provide a couple of comparable anecdotes that support your opinion? It seems to me that glitches in Apple products get over-hyped by the tech press because they drive page views.

For example, the Nexus 4 doesn't have LTE. Google said that it wasn't possible to do it due to the variety of carriers. Did that story gain any traction? Not that I saw--only the verge wrote about it. But, many wrote about how the iPhone 4S was going to be a failure because it didn't have LTE.
--
-Ryan
I use Linux, OS X, iOS and Windows. Let the OS wars die.

Daemon
Premium
join:2003-06-29
Berkeley, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast
·webpass.net
reply to Kearnstd
said by Kearnstd:

They realized they could not maintain the lead they once had. Naturally they bust out the lawsuits. Sad state of business but that seems to be how portable computing works today, Can't beat em then sue em.

Or, perhaps, they felt that many Android features were a direct rip-off of iOS features and wanted them to stop. Apple hasn't sued Microsoft, Nokia, Amazon, or Barnes and Noble. They didn't go after Palm when it was around either.

(I predict the inevitable responses to this post will be something about patenting rounded rectangles and that software patents are bogus.)
--
-Ryan
I use Linux, OS X, iOS and Windows. Let the OS wars die.

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network
It's because Google is eventually going to eat their lunch and they can see it coming.

The only reason the tech rags rag on Apple is to see the reaction from the iFans. Again, it's from Apple acting like they have these magical devices.

I have to quit this thread before I get banned. The fanboyism is making me ill.
--
Awesome. More handouts, food stamps, welfare and entitlements to come. I'm so proud.


Count Zero
Obama-Biden 2012
Premium
join:2007-01-18
Winston Salem, NC
reply to Brendan
It's back up over $11 today.

SHOtime

join:2001-12-04
Bedford, IN
reply to djrobx
I didn't propose that it was something new. Apple lives on their reputation. They expect you to pay more for what they tell you is a better product. Their "it just works" mantra and continually claiming everyone else is cutting corners to compete is stretching the truth at best, an outright lie at worst.

Hardware wise they are no longer the leader. There are a number of devices with as good or better specs than the Iphone and Ipad. In regards to the UI both Android and MS have both caught up and in may ways surpassed iOS. The casual user would have a hard time distingushing a difference in the App stores of either Apple or Android. The biggest apps reside in both. A few more fart apps in the App store a few less smaller game titles on the Play Store. It's truly a wash at this point.

They seem to be a company (not unlike MS at its peak) content to rest on their prior achievements. Incremental updates to the OS with no real changes. The difference between MS and Apple is that MS did not have a real challenger in the PC OS battle. Apple was a niche. Apple is faced with the real possibility of becoming the 3rd player in mobile technology behind both MS and Google. Android has already passed them in marketshare and with MS built in base of PC users, Enterprise IT, and a generation of XBOX gamers Win8 cannot be taken lightly.

Daemon
Premium
join:2003-06-29
Berkeley, CA

1 edit
reply to Badonkadonk
Upon reflection I do not wish to post.


digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2
reply to ptrowski
A decline in market share is inevitable when a company starts at over 80% a few months after a new product introduction.

What is not inevitable is a company taking its customers for granted, as Apple has started doing by expecting them to buy a updated product once a year or more often. As a result, Apple's tablet market share is down to 50% and its smartphone market share is down to 17%. And being lawsuit-happy is a signal to competitors that Apple is starting to run out of ideas, and further emboldens Samsung and others to "core the Apple".

Apples Achille's heel is overdependence on a shiny new apple in a market where apples have been commoditized.
--
Logic requires one to deal with decisions that one's ego will not permit.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke.


Metatron2008
Premium
join:2008-09-02
united state
reply to Daemon
said by Daemon:

Or, perhaps, they felt that many Android features were a direct rip-off of iOS features and wanted them to stop.

Oh really? An OS made with a Linux core (Android) shares features like an OS made from a UNIX core (iOS)? When does an OS not share features?

quote:
Apple hasn't sued Microsoft
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Comp···poration

The court ruled that, "Apple cannot get patent-like protection for the idea of a graphical user interface, or the idea of a desktop metaphor [under copyright law]..."[1] In the midst of the Apple v. Microsoft lawsuit, Xerox also sued Apple alleging that Mac's GUI was heavily based on Xerox's.

quote:
Nokia
»news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20029047-37.html

Apple sues Nokia over iPhone scrolling patent

quote:
Amazon
»www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/web/03/22/···dex.html

Apple sues Amazon over 'app store' name

quote:
or Barnes and Noble
You actually got one right. Microsoft sued Barnes and Noble.

Apple has a long history of making good devices and then acting like it invented the entire market. You wanna also say that Apple invented the term App store?

Did apple also invent the apple? Is that why they suing poland grocery stores for having an apple logo?

»www.webpronews.com/apple-sues-on···-2012-09


sgarrand
Insert Witty Phrase Here
Premium
join:2000-04-13
West Brookfield, MA
reply to Teasip
said by Teasip:

I'm still on the 3G 8GB phone, out of contract, and have been ready to upgrade (as well as the wife who has the same phone). I've never had an Android but the Samsung Galaxy III on the television commercials have caught my eye. Opinions?

I went from multiple iPhones (1st, 3G, 3GS) to Android and I currently own a Samsung Galaxy S III. I admire iOS for what it does well but it no longer meets my needs. Everyone's needs are different.

Scott
--
My web site is WhyTheHell.com


Teasip

join:2001-05-14
Plano, TX
Thanks. For the mess that I went through today (posted in a separate thread) it looks like the Samsung may not be a bad option. I've got to perform a little research on it's ability to interact with OS X first.

sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Verizon FiOS
reply to Metatron2008
said by Metatron2008:

said by Daemon:

Or, perhaps, they felt that many Android features were a direct rip-off of iOS features and wanted them to stop.

Oh really? An OS made with a Linux core (Android) shares features like an OS made from a UNIX core (iOS)? When does an OS not share features?

quote:
Apple hasn't sued Microsoft
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Comp···poration

The court ruled that, "Apple cannot get patent-like protection for the idea of a graphical user interface, or the idea of a desktop metaphor [under copyright law]..."[1] In the midst of the Apple v. Microsoft lawsuit, Xerox also sued Apple alleging that Mac's GUI was heavily based on Xerox's.

quote:
Nokia
»news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20029047-37.html

Apple sues Nokia over iPhone scrolling patent

quote:
Amazon
»www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/web/03/22/···dex.html

Apple sues Amazon over 'app store' name

quote:
or Barnes and Noble
You actually got one right. Microsoft sued Barnes and Noble.

Apple has a long history of making good devices and then acting like it invented the entire market. You wanna also say that Apple invented the term App store?

Did apple also invent the apple? Is that why they suing poland grocery stores for having an apple logo?

»www.webpronews.com/apple-sues-on···-2012-09

The lawsuits are an interesting issue. Apple also sued Samsung (now infamously) over the design of the iPhone (literally rectangle with rounded edges and a prominent screen).


sgarrand
Insert Witty Phrase Here
Premium
join:2000-04-13
West Brookfield, MA
reply to Teasip
If there's anything specific, I have a 2011 iMac and I could help. Drop me an IM if you need something.

Scott
--
My web site is WhyTheHell.com

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to Daemon
said by Daemon:

Or, perhaps, they felt that many Android features were a direct rip-off of iOS features and wanted them to stop. Apple hasn't sued Microsoft, Nokia, Amazon, or Barnes and Noble. They didn't go after Palm when it was around either.

Maybe maybe not. But Apple's patents are like saying Blizzard should be able to patent "The use of Elves in a fantasy MMORPG setting."

Or Lucas Film being able to patent triangle shaped space ships for use in science fiction and then suing whoever holds the current rights to Asteroids.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports


ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4
reply to sk1939
But yet Apple blatantly stole the clock design in iOS 6 and were caught.

Daemon
Premium
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Berkeley, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast
·webpass.net

2 edits
reply to Metatron2008
said by Metatron2008:

You actually got one right. Microsoft sued Barnes and Noble.

Apple has a long history of making good devices and then acting like it invented the entire market. You wanna also say that Apple invented the term App store?

I was talking about patents and mobile operating systems, not lawsuits from decades ago or those involving trademarks (which operate completely differently--if you don't sue on a trademark, you lose it by default). So you got me on the Nokia one, but the rest are not relevant in this context.

Stating Android v iOS is about Linux vs Unix is a little silly. The core is not where the controversies arise--nearly all of the lawsuits have been about interfaces not about core feature implementations. Some of them have been algorithmic, but none have involved the actual kernel of the operating system that I am aware of. (The only 'core' lawsuit I can think of is Oracle vs Google re:Android APIs)

And not all OSes share UI features. Apple likes to use Windows Phone as an example of how you can do things in a different enough way that you don't infringe, while still making a device that does all the things users want.

--
-Ryan
I use Linux, OS X, iOS and Windows. Let the OS wars die.

sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
Reviews:
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·Verizon FiOS
Windows Phone also benefits from the fact that it isn't a strong competitor to Apple unlike Android.

As far as patents go, Apple holds a number of patents that are overly broad, and can claim patent infringement on a wide variety of things. Apple also has a tendency to claim it invented things (debatable) when in reality they just improved on existing technology (the Mp3 player was along well before the iPod was out).

Daemon
Premium
join:2003-06-29
Berkeley, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast
·webpass.net
said by sk1939:

As far as patents go, Apple holds a number of patents that are overly broad, and can claim patent infringement on a wide variety of things.

Given that companies have a fiduciary duty to shareholders, anyone that thinks Apple wouldn't or shouldn't patent what they do has his or her head in the clouds. If you don't like the patents because you think they are overly broad, then you should take up the fight against the federal circuit and supreme courts, not Apple. The federal circuit in particular has become problematic.

If you look at the history of the way Android was developed and combine that with the emails that came out during the Oracle trial, it's clear those at the top chose to ignore potential IP problems, whether willfully or naively. It's biting them in the rear now. Microsoft is too smart, with too long of a history, to let that happen to them, instead choosing to cross license with Apple to get patents they could and modify the UI of WP otherwise.

In the history of the litigation over mobile UI patents, Apple has tried to bring out big guns that cover large parts of multi touch interfaces and have quickly and frequently found that those patents don't hold up to closer scrutiny and claims get tossed out. Instead, they are now using patents on very specific features of iOS, like the over scroll physics. The lawsuit against Samsung, once all the claims on both sides were narrowed, really came down to 'don't make your phones look just like ours' and 'don't copy our OS down to minute details'.
--
-Ryan
I use Linux, OS X, iOS and Windows. Let the OS wars die.


Jimothy

@mycingular.net
reply to ptrowski
said by ptrowski:

But yet Apple blatantly stole the clock design in iOS 6 and were caught.

patents and trademarks are not the same thing and the vast vast vast majority of timepiece dial designs are not protected under anything, there's a reason you can find 5 bajillion perfectly legal submariner homages and their isn't a single thing Rolex can do outside of their protected crown logo and name

sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Verizon FiOS
reply to Daemon
said by Daemon:

said by sk1939:

As far as patents go, Apple holds a number of patents that are overly broad, and can claim patent infringement on a wide variety of things.

Given that companies have a fiduciary duty to shareholders, anyone that thinks Apple wouldn't or shouldn't patent what they do has his or her head in the clouds. If you don't like the patents because you think they are overly broad, then you should take up the fight against the federal circuit and supreme courts, not Apple. The federal circuit in particular has become problematic.

If you look at the history of the way Android was developed and combine that with the emails that came out during the Oracle trial, it's clear those at the top chose to ignore potential IP problems, whether willfully or naively. It's biting them in the rear now. Microsoft is too smart, with too long of a history, to let that happen to them, instead choosing to cross license with Apple to get patents they could and modify the UI of WP otherwise.

In the history of the litigation over mobile UI patents, Apple has tried to bring out big guns that cover large parts of multi touch interfaces and have quickly and frequently found that those patents don't hold up to closer scrutiny and claims get tossed out. Instead, they are now using patents on very specific features of iOS, like the over scroll physics. The lawsuit against Samsung, once all the claims on both sides were narrowed, really came down to 'don't make your phones look just like ours' and 'don't copy our OS down to minute details'.

I do hold the court/patent system responsible, but I hold the companies socially responsible for doing something they know is questionable.

I agree that in Samsungs case it was a case where the phones were similar, but it was not necessarily the case with the lawsuit against HTC. The question as far as looks go is how similar/different does a design have to be to not be "close" or a copy of Apple's design. That is the problem with the court case as they have not defined the boundary for such a broad design patent.