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sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
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reply to Daemon

Re: We've passed Peak Apple....

said by Daemon:

said by sk1939:

Design of the GUI rather than the device itself.

you can call them 'Design of the GUI', but they are still utility patents, not design patents.

Fact of the matter is though that Apple has sued quite a few companies over some portion of the iPhone at some point in time.

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to Daemon

said by Daemon:

said by Metatron2008:

And saying you have to sue based on a trademark is a rediculous method of excusing a company suing a grocery store, WHICH SELLS APPLES, for having an apple logo. That is bullying, from a company that doesn't want anybody else using it's 'forbidden fruit'.

This is how trademark law works. In order to prevent erosion of your trademark, you virtually have to sue over ridiculous non-infringement. Your trademark is only protected with a moat as far as you can sue. By suing as far as you possibly can, you keep that moat as large as possible. One missed lawsuit and the moat gets irreparably smaller.

Unlike patent law, where your rights remain whether you sue or not once the patent is issued, under trademark law, you automatically lose rights if someone infringes and you don't sue, and you lose them forever.

It's why Microsoft sued a student who ran a teenage web programming business called mikerowesoft.com.

So you are saying its okay to bully smaller companies who actually have equal right to similar things?

Nissan Motors is still bullying a guy who is actually named Nissan over his domain Nissan.com. Nissan motors claims they have more right to the domain than someone with Nissan as a surname.
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Daemon
Premium
join:2003-06-29
Berkeley, CA
Reviews:
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said by Kearnstd:

So you are saying its okay to bully smaller companies who actually have equal right to similar things?

Nissan Motors is still bullying a guy who is actually named Nissan over his domain Nissan.com. Nissan motors claims they have more right to the domain than someone with Nissan as a surname.

The premise of your question is an ad hominem. My personal feelings on the matter do not change in any way how trademark law operates. That said:

Morally, no. But I feel corporations are not bound by morals the way individuals are. Corporations are bound only by laws, so the most effective way to prevent the kind of bullying you're talking about is not to claim it's immoral but to change the laws so it's not legal.
--
-Ryan
I use Linux, OS X, iOS and Windows. Let the OS wars die.

sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
Reviews:
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·Verizon FiOS

said by Daemon:

Morally, no. But I feel corporations are not bound by morals the way individuals are. Corporations are bound only by laws, so the most effective way to prevent the kind of bullying you're talking about is not to claim it's immoral but to change the laws so it's not legal.

This is filed under "social responsibility" for companies. We all know the laws are not likely to change, at least for the better.

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

said by sk1939:

said by Daemon:

Morally, no. But I feel corporations are not bound by morals the way individuals are. Corporations are bound only by laws, so the most effective way to prevent the kind of bullying you're talking about is not to claim it's immoral but to change the laws so it's not legal.

This is filed under "social responsibility" for companies. We all know the laws are not likely to change, at least for the better.

Sadly corporate America lacks that. They seem to forget they can make barge loads of money without being complete assholes.
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Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
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Reviews:
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reply to Daemon

said by Daemon:

said by Metatron2008:

And saying you have to sue based on a trademark is a rediculous method of excusing a company suing a grocery store, WHICH SELLS APPLES, for having an apple logo. That is bullying, from a company that doesn't want anybody else using it's 'forbidden fruit'.

This is how trademark law works. In order to prevent erosion of your trademark, you virtually have to sue over ridiculous non-infringement. Your trademark is only protected with a moat as far as you can sue. By suing as far as you possibly can, you keep that moat as large as possible. One missed lawsuit and the moat gets irreparably smaller.

Unlike patent law, where your rights remain whether you sue or not once the patent is issued, under trademark law, you automatically lose rights if someone infringes and you don't sue, and you lose them forever.

It's why Microsoft sued a student who ran a teenage web programming business called mikerowesoft.com.

You can repair your trademark. It's difficult, but rights aren't necessarily lost forever. For example, Xerox has done a good job repairing their mark.

Also, Apple takes their trademark protection to extremes. I've been doing IP law for over 18 years, including trademarks. No other company for whom I've done trademark law was as loony as Apple, although Ty Industries was close.

By the way, your comments about patent law aren't quite accurate.
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Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

Don't forget Monster Cable for loony... they once sued an indoor minigolf place that had monster in its name.(no clue if they have tried to sue Monster Energy Drinks, But I am guessing the drink maker has a wallet too deep for a maker of overpriced cables to harass.)

and how loony you mention apple being, Didn't they once try and sue NYC over calling itself "The Big Apple"?

Actually how well has Xerox done? I know I have not heard the term Xerox a document in a long time.

I know Google is facing the old Xerox and Kleenex problem though. I once heard someone say they where going to Google something and they went to Bing...
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports


Badonkadonk
Premium
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Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
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Regarding Monster and Apple, I don't know who advises these guys, but the craziness leads me to believe that someone's looking for billable hours.

Exactly, since the phrase "xerox this page" or "please xerox this for me" is no longer being commonly used, the mark hasn't become (or is no longer) generic. That's why they've successfully taken back their mark.

Exactly right on the Google thing. But no doubt the Google lawyers are well aware of the dangers.
--
Awesome. More handouts, food stamps, welfare and entitlements to come. I'm so proud.


Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

said by Badonkadonk:

Exactly right on the Google thing. But no doubt the Google lawyers are well aware of the dangers.

appears very aware.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_%28verb%29

quote:
The transitive verb[1] to google (also spelled to Google) refers to using the Google search engine to obtain information on the Web. However, it can also be used as a general term for searching the internet using any search engine, not just Google. A neologism arising from the popularity and dominance[2] of the eponymous search engine, the American Dialect Society chose it as the "most useful word of 2002."[3] It was added to the Oxford English Dictionary on June 15, 2006,[4] and to the eleventh edition of the Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary in July 2006.[5] The first recorded usage of google used as a participle, thus supposing the verb, was on July 8, 1998, by Google co-founder Larry Page himself, who wrote on a mailing list: "Have fun and keep googling!"[6]

Fearing the genericizing and potential loss of its trademark, Google has discouraged use of the word as a verb, particularly when used as a synonym for general web searching. On February 23, 2003,[7] the company sent a cease and desist letter to Paul McFedries, creator of Word Spy, a website that tracks neologisms.[8] In an article in the Washington Post, Frank Ahrens discussed the letter he received from a Google lawyer that demonstrated "appropriate" and "inappropriate" ways to use the verb "google".[9] It was reported that, in response to this concern, lexicographers for the Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary lowercased the actual entry for the word, google, while maintaining the capitalization of the search engine in their definition, "to use the Google search engine to seek online information" (a concern which did not deter the Oxford editors from preserving the history of both "cases").[10] On October 25, 2006, Google sent a request to the public requesting that "you should please only use 'Google' when you’re actually referring to Google Inc. and our services."[11]
on a side note while looking this up I discovered that at some point dry ice was a registered trademark as is/was plexiglass.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports


Brendan
Warr Guitar is here

join:2000-07-14
Littleton, CO
reply to Count Zero

said by Count Zero:

It's back up over $11 today.

Yes, and still falling, longer-term. The trend is your friend.

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
reply to Kearnstd

Thermos, aspirin, etc. The list goes on and on. Companies/products that are a victim of their own success.
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Awesome. More handouts, food stamps, welfare and entitlements to come. I'm so proud.



Count Zero
Obama-Biden 2012
Premium
join:2007-01-18
Winston Salem, NC
reply to Brendan

Long term? Long term Apple is WAYYY up and its products are doing great. I'm not concerned yet.



Brendan
Warr Guitar is here

join:2000-07-14
Littleton, CO

said by Count Zero:

Long term? Long term Apple is WAYYY up and its products are doing great. I'm not concerned yet.

Long-term (7 weeks), when compared to your example (1 day).
--
"Heaven is having an American salary, a Chinese cook, an English house, and a Japanese wife. Hell is having a Chinese salary, an English cook, a Japanese house, and an American wife." -- James H. Kabbler III


Count Zero
Obama-Biden 2012
Premium
join:2007-01-18
Winston Salem, NC

Long term 2 years.



Coma
Thanks Steve
Premium
join:2001-12-30
NirvanaLand

said by Count Zero:

Long term 2 years.


Try 12 years . . .

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