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Re: [Connectivity] Trying to use PhonePower on Comcast HSI - notI'm not a network tech and it sounds like we need one. I have no idea about all this, and how to fix it without risking hosing it. |
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 NetFixerFrom My Cold Dead Hands
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NetFixer
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2012-Nov-7 9:41 pm
said by Melissa2009B:I'm not a network tech and it sounds like we need one. I have no idea about all this, and how to fix it without risking hosing it.
 That is one of the reasons that I did not suggest that you attempt to make any router QoS or port forwarding changes. The other reason was that the problems you are describing don't sound like anything that port forwarding would fix (although QoS settings might help). Since I am not familiar with your particular cable gateway, I don't even know if it has QoS settings, so I won't likely be able to walk you through looking for that in your router's admin menu (but it would likely be buried somewhere in the Advanced settings if you decide to take a peek and post some screen shots). Anytime I have seen a problem with SIP devices/applications where a restrictive firewall was interfering and port forwarding might help, the symptom would be that the SIP device/application could not even establish an initial session with its call control server (and that is not the symptom you have reported). |
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Guess we're gonna have to send back the PhonePower box and get Comcast Voice, so it's supported. |
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NetFixerFrom My Cold Dead Hands
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NetFixer
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2012-Nov-7 10:26 pm
said by Melissa2009B:Guess we're gonna have to send back the PhonePower box and get Comcast Voice, so it's supported.
That should at least eliminate the multi-vendor finger pointing, and since Comcast is trying to present itself as the new "phone company", in most areas they do tend to give priority to CDV problems. Also, since Comcast delivers their VoIP service over a different channel that is not used for Internet access, they do have the ability to tightly control things all the way from your local connection to where they hand over the signal to whatever CLEC handles their PSTN interface in your area. I hope that you don't have a hefty ETF clause in your new PhonePower contract. Also remember that if you are planning to port the telephone number, don't terminate the PhonePower service until after Comcast notifies you that the number port is officially complete. |
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I purposely signed up with PhonePower without contract, and paid more a month, to try it. And we don't care about the number, we just got it and have an 800 number for the business anyway, with simultaneous ring to the home and cell. |
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to Melissa2009B
said by Melissa2009B:I'm not a network tech and it sounds like we need one. I have no idea about all this, and how to fix it without risking hosing it.
You can't be serious. The link I provided has a link to the DMZ settings, which you can see here: » screenshots.portforward. ··· /DMZ.htmAll you need to do is enable it and enter the IP address of your PhonePower box. You need a network tech to enter an IP address into a box? And, I'm sorry NetFixer, but if a device requires port forwarding to work properly and it's not set than it will cause EXACTLY the problems that she is describing. Good luck! |
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said by gwbuffalo:said by Melissa2009B:I'm not a network tech and it sounds like we need one. I have no idea about all this, and how to fix it without risking hosing it.
You can't be serious. The link I provided has a link to the DMZ settings, which you can see here: » screenshots.portforward. ··· /DMZ.htmAll you need to do is enable it and enter the IP address of your PhonePower box. You need a network tech to enter an IP address into a box? And, I'm sorry NetFixer, but if a device requires port forwarding to work properly and it's not set than it will cause EXACTLY the problems that she is describing. Good luck! believe me, she's better off using Comcast's VoIP service rather than fiddling with her connections... she claims to be some sort of a tech BEFORE, but that was years ago... |
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How is putting a device in the DMZ "fiddling with her connections?" |
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said by gwbuffalo:How is putting a device in the DMZ "fiddling with her connections?"
let me re phrase that... anything with tweaking and or setting up devices have been a challenge for her... there's always the easy way but a little costlier and then there's the hard, trying to pull her hair way but cheaper options that sometimes really doesn't work right. the KISS rule doesn't apply to her... ================ my rule of thumb has been to make sure I can setup, tweak or fix techy stuff and make sure everybody can use it without them calling me every time, if either one doesn't work, I scrap the idea and just suck up the cost. |
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said by medbuyer:anything with tweaking and or setting up devices have been a challenge for her... Understood. With that said, when it's literally a couple of easy steps and she doesn't even want to try them I'd have to wonder why help is even asked for here. Also it's amusing that she's more than willing to make the Comcast reps sound stupid with a "PACKET LOSS! PACKET LOSS!" tirade but the reality is the problem is possibly on her end. Don't throw stones at anyone (even Comcast) until you KNOW they're the problem. Melissa, I wish you luck in getting your service up and running! Cheers! |
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said by gwbuffalo:said by medbuyer:anything with tweaking and or setting up devices have been a challenge for her... Understood. With that said, when it's literally a couple of easy steps and she doesn't even want to try them I'd have to wonder why help is even asked for here. Also it's amusing that she's more than willing to make the Comcast reps sound stupid with a "PACKET LOSS! PACKET LOSS!" tirade but the reality is the problem is possibly on her end. Don't throw stones at anyone (even Comcast) until you KNOW they're the problem. Melissa, I wish you luck in getting your service up and running! Cheers! i'm not throwing stones at anybody here..I'm merely stating a fact that when it comes to techy stuff, people have tried to help her before but she always tries to find a way how to complicate things for her... » Wireless fax module? What's this called?» [Speed] May have to switch to Comcast» [Rant] I want to add Voice but they won't let me!she had a perfect system for her before....her cost cutting measures coupled with this is how I want it to work kinda seemed didn't work at all. sometimes, when you cut costs, you may have to adjust the way you do things as well. specially when your business depends on it. |
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said by medbuyer:i'm not throwing stones at anybody here..I'm merely stating a fact that when it comes to techy stuff, people have tried to help her before but she always tries to find a way how to complicate things for her... I was referring to her original post in the thread with the "throwing stones" comment, not to any of your posts. Sorry for the confusion. It appears that the PhonePower box is similar to the Ooma box I have in that it lets you plug it in directly to the modem with a passthrough to a router, allowing the phone to have priority. Melissa, since you're not using the phone part of the modem / router combo you have you'd be better off getting a dedicated modem and plugging the VoIP device in as shown here: » www.phonepower.com/wiki/ ··· am_HT502This way you can use the other router you said you already have and there would be no phone setup to be done since the device is first in line before anything else. Again, good luck! |
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to medbuyer
said by medbuyer:said by gwbuffalo:said by Melissa2009B:I'm not a network tech and it sounds like we need one. I have no idea about all this, and how to fix it without risking hosing it.
You can't be serious. The link I provided has a link to the DMZ settings, which you can see here: » screenshots.portforward. ··· /DMZ.htmAll you need to do is enable it and enter the IP address of your PhonePower box. You need a network tech to enter an IP address into a box? And, I'm sorry NetFixer, but if a device requires port forwarding to work properly and it's not set than it will cause EXACTLY the problems that she is describing. Good luck! believe me, she's better off using Comcast's VoIP service rather than fiddling with her connections... she claims to be some sort of a tech BEFORE, but that was years ago... Yes, I was an Electronics Tehnician with an ASET ( Associate in Science in Electronics Technology ) from 1969 to around 1995, NOT a network tech |
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said by Melissa2009B:Yes, I was an Electronics Tehnician with an ASET ( Associate in Science in Electronics Technology ) from 1969 to around 1995, NOT a network tech
Melissa2009B  I understand what the difference is but both aren't that too far from each other too... I used to be called an electronics tech too doing refurbishing on networking equipment. Networking isn't really that complicated specially when you've got the background in electronics. |
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Yeah I understand, but there's also the aspect that someone mentioned, that PhonePower sends packets out over the net and Comcast has their own net for them, which sounds like it gives better quality.
That and the fact that I've been extremely depressed since Tuesday. |
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said by Melissa2009B:Yeah I understand, but there's also the aspect that someone mentioned, that PhonePower sends packets out over the net and Comcast has their own net for them, which sounds like it gives better quality. packet loss? 1st graph attached showed a 6% packet loss, the other graph showed 2.7% packet loss.....did you ever check everything else? if I were in your shoes, I'd simplify things even if it means being a little costlier, that way, you won't get depressed or blood shooting out of your eyes because of either you don't understand or the other party doesn't understand things. |
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to Melissa2009B
said by Melissa2009B:Yeah I understand, but there's also the aspect that someone mentioned, that PhonePower sends packets out over the net and Comcast has their own net for them, which sounds like it gives better quality.
That and the fact that I've been extremely depressed since Tuesday.
You have to make your own choices, but I've actually been a lot happier with the quality / features I've gotten with Ooma (similar I'm guessing to PhonePower as it's a 3rd party box) than I ever was with Comcast's phone system. |
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If I thought it was just a matter of learning to make the adjustments, I'd learn it. But people in the forum were telling me that things would run a lot faster and smoother if I got a separate router too, and I actually bought a great one, but haven't installed it. Why? Because essentially, Comcast has us by the short hairs with this stuff. If I install a separate router, then put it in bridge mode ( which people here suggested doing ) then I have ANY problems AT ALL, Comcast simply says "sorry" and won't support it.
My internet for my little home business here would be down and I'd be screwed. Same with this phone thing. If I thought it was just a matter of getting the settings fixed, I'd learn how. But the first thing that happens is a urinating contest between PhonePower and Comcast, with each pointing the finger at each other.
PhonePower says there's 6% packet loss which is causing the chopiness, echoes ( I suppose ) and delays in signal. I talk and someone hears me a couple of seconds later in New York, and then it gets all confusing as we practically have to say "over" like people do on the radio, so we don't chop up each others conversations.
I GUESS ( but don't know ) that it's because PhonePower ( and others ) send packets out over the internet, through every Tom Dick and Harry's servers. But Comcast, from what I understand, has their own private network and that doesn't happen.
AND if they install their own Voice service, THEY MUST support it, no finger pointing is possible.
I AM wondering however, if I request it, if they might install a separate modem and router of their own, instead of this combined gateway, and if that might work even better? |
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 mike34
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to Melissa2009B
said by Melissa2009B:Guess we're gonna have to send back the PhonePower box and get Comcast Voice, so it's supported. Melissa, this has dragged on much too long. Just do it. Call Comcast, agree to their nominal ($35.00) installation charge, let them set everything up for you and stop worrying yourself sick over it. I consulted on matters like this for years, starting in the early 80's, and always maintained the principal that I didn't expect, nor want, my clients to be geeks. That's what I was there for. Comcast will take care of you and be there on rare occasions that something goes wrong. 99% of their customers have never heard of BBR and really don't have any reason to come in here. |
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NetFixerFrom My Cold Dead Hands
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to Melissa2009B
said by Melissa2009B:PhonePower says there's 6% packet loss which is causing the chopiness, echoes ( I suppose ) and delays in signal. I talk and someone hears me a couple of seconds later in New York, and then it gets all confusing as we practically have to say "over" like people do on the radio, so we don't chop up each others conversations.
I don't think that you mentioned the long transmission delay previously. That is a classic buffer bloat symptom ( see my post here for an explanation: » Re: [Speed] Comcast Business Class Speed Upgraded in California ), and getting around that would require some heavy QoS/rate limiting on your end (and that would probably require you to use a separate standard cable modem with an external router or switch capable of doing that). The "VWAN" segment in the network diagram below shows where I do rate limiting in my Netgear GS108e switch on my network to compensate for the excessive buffering that is caused by the combination of Comcast's PowerBoost and upstream channel bonding. And no, I am not suggesting that you do this, I am just showing you how I have to compensate for that long delay in order to be able to use my Vonage VoIP service without problems. And FWIW, since Comcast would not use PowerBoost or channel bonding for their CDV, you should not have a problem with that long transmission delay if you switch to CDV. When I temporarily used an old DOCSIS 2 modem for testing (which does not support bonded channels), I no longer had the excessive buffering symptom. If you would like to see if your connection is prone to buffer bloat, the ICSI Netalyzr test can be run from here: » netalyzr.icsi.berkeley.e ··· =comcast
said by Melissa2009B:I AM wondering however, if I request it, if they might install a separate modem and router of their own, instead of this combined gateway, and if that might work even better?
Up until about a year ago, Comcast did have a plan to provide a standalone wireless router to customers who rented standard cable modems from them (I still use the Netgear router that they supplied to me), but that plan has been discontinued and they now supply the integrated gateway boxes instead. And even when they did supply the standalone routers, they did not in any way support them; they only supplied the physical box, and it was the customer's responsibility to do all configuration and troubleshooting. |
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Dear ...,
I sincerely apologize for the difficulties that you are having with your service right now.
I have checked your phone adapter remotely and it appears that it's behind a firewall.
Firewalls, especially those employing SPI, can sometimes interfere with your service. They can prevent the phone adapter from registering with our network, produce one-way audio on calls, and block incoming calls. These problems can be avoided two different ways to arrange your network configuration so that the phone adapter is located outside of the firewall or port forward our traffic to the phone adapter.
I strongly suggest to give us a call for assistance before switching to Comcast Voice. |
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said by Melissa2009B:Dear ...,
I sincerely apologize for the difficulties that you are having with your service right now.
I have checked your phone adapter remotely and it appears that it's behind a firewall.
Firewalls, especially those employing SPI, can sometimes interfere with your service. They can prevent the phone adapter from registering with our network, produce one-way audio on calls, and block incoming calls. These problems can be avoided two different ways to arrange your network configuration so that the phone adapter is located outside of the firewall or port forward our traffic to the phone adapter.
I strongly suggest to give us a call for assistance before switching to Comcast Voice.
interesting...who sent you that? let me guess...phonepower? so did you try disabling the firewall or port forwarding? |
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NetFixerFrom My Cold Dead Hands
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to Melissa2009B
That sounds like familiar advice. Unfortunately, I don't think that your Comcast gateway has a remote access feature that is accessible to anyone but a Comcast CSR (I know that my SMC gateway was only accessible remotely by Comcast), so PhonePower's "assistance" will likely mean that you will need to make the changes in your gateway's firewall yourself. It's not really that difficult, and even if you screw something up, a factory default reset will allow you to start over (just make sure that you have the WiFi security passphrase saved somewhere in case you do need to do a factory default reset on the gateway). Seriously, the worst thing that can happen is that the firewall changes don't help with the VoIP problems. |
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said by NetFixer:That sounds like familiar advice.
It is familiar advice, it is exactly what I told her four days ago when you replied with "...the problems you are describing don't sound like anything that port forwarding would fix..." I guess they were exactly the kinds of problems that port forwarding / getting out from behind the firewall will fix! Melissa, you need to complete two simple steps to get this to work. I have no doubt in my mind that anyone even with ZERO networking experience could easily complete both. STEP 1: Configure your PhonePower device to have a static IP address. » www.phonepower.com/wiki/ ··· _AddressOne you complete those instructions, your static IP will be 192.168.1.200 STEP 2: Put that static IP address into the Arris' DMZ. » screenshots.portforward. ··· /DMZ.htmArris control panel -> Advanced -> DMZ Click "Enable" and enter the static IP you just set on the PhonePower box 192.168.1.200 If you did it correctly, then your phone issues should now be resolved. With that said, as someone else pointed out that Arris is really only used for people that have Comcast's VoIP service and in the long run you may just want to buy a DOCSIS 3 modem (about $80 at places like Amazon or Costco) and dump the $7 a month rental fee that Comcast charges and break out the router that you have. The nice thing about your router is that it most likely out of the box has remote access features so people can help you change settings remotely. |
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NetFixerFrom My Cold Dead Hands
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NetFixer
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2012-Nov-10 6:21 pm
said by gwbuffalo:said by NetFixer:That sounds like familiar advice.
It is familiar advice, it is exactly what I told her four days ago when you replied with "...the problems you are describing don't sound like anything that port forwarding would fix..." I guess they were exactly the kinds of problems that port forwarding / getting out from behind the firewall will fix! And unless the PhonePower ATA is not properly establishing a session, it is still my opinion that DMZ or port forwarding will not fix the OP's VoIP problems. Her problem sounds more like a QoS or rate limiting problem to me than it does a SIP problem. However, on the off chance that the PhonePower ATA's SIP logic is defective, it certainly can't hurt to try using a DMZ or port forwarding just to see if it might help. If the OP can find the courage to try to setup port forwarding, or a DMZ, then perhaps she can also see if her cable gateway box also has QoS and/or rate limiting settings. Based on the reported symptoms, I suspect that if the OP runs the ICSI Netalyzr test to verify if she has excessive buffering, and then runs the ShaperProbe test and sets up outbound rate limiting to a value just slightly higher than the base upstream bandwidth shown by ShaperProbe, that might have a chance to correct her VoIP problems. If I did not do that, my Vonage service would have the same long transmission delays that the OP describes (and my Vonage adapter is not behind a router or firewall). In the OP's case (since she is also doing video streaming over the gateway's WiFi), she might possibly need both rate limiting to compensate for excessive upstream buffering, and QoS to give her PhonePower ATA priority over other traffic (this is of course assuming that her Comcast supplied gateway gives the customer access to those settings...Comcast has a tendency to lock down their gateway boxes). |
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That is one of the reasons that I did not suggest that you attempt to make any router QoS or port forwarding changes.
