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motorola870

join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX
kudos:3
reply to banditws6

Re: Time Warner Boosting Standard Speed to 15Mbps

said by banditws6:

Wow, that is some pretty good info re: all those tests. Unfortunately they all seem to point to the same thing for me: that while my line tests out at about a 17 Mbps capacity, I rarely achieve anything higher than 4. This bears out what I've been experiencing over the last few works, i.e. slow downloads everywhere I go.

Pretty crappy.

banditws6 I would recommend you getting a SB6141 or SBG6580 if you want to get your full speed because I am betting you have a DOCSIS 2.0 modem and with all of the data and not to mention the multiroom DVR guide data and box requests being sent over the DOCSIS channels that a single channel in north texas is congested right now we have 6 DOCSIS channels running in all of the nodes in North Texas it should help you speed issues the only thing is you will lose powerboost. I consistently get 30/5 on extreme with a SBG6580.


Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11

Does TWC use the internet DOCSIS channel for their boxes as well? That would be pretty wasteful.

Also, if TWC has allowed it, DOCSIS3 allows D2 modems to switch between different channels (DCC) based on congestion - so even though you can't balance traffic over all 6 channels in real time, your D2 modem should still be able to find an open channel.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to motorola870

said by motorola870:

said by banditws6:

Wow, that is some pretty good info re: all those tests. Unfortunately they all seem to point to the same thing for me: that while my line tests out at about a 17 Mbps capacity, I rarely achieve anything higher than 4. This bears out what I've been experiencing over the last few works, i.e. slow downloads everywhere I go.

Pretty crappy.

banditws6 I would recommend you getting a SB6141 or SBG6580 if you want to get your full speed because I am betting you have a DOCSIS 2.0 modem and with all of the data and not to mention the multiroom DVR guide data and box requests being sent over the DOCSIS channels that a single channel in north texas is congested right now we have 6 DOCSIS channels running in all of the nodes in North Texas it should help you speed issues the only thing is you will lose powerboost. I consistently get 30/5 on extreme with a SBG6580.

He said he went back to Standard at 10/1. He doesn't need a DOCSIS 3modem for Standard tier.

I would not recommend it on Standard tier and especially with the speeds he is getting (4 mbps) he needs Power Boost. His testing that is showing his capacity to be 17MBS probably is due to Power Boost distortion but Power Boost while it screws with most speed tests (Sam Knows tests can filter out Power Boost) is useful on Standard tier. I MISS it on 15/1. I was going back to 10/1 to get it again until TWC decided to up everyone to 15/1 and, I guess, no Power Boost as I have grandfathered Turbo which is 15/1 and there is no Powerboost on it.

Even with Standard tier now boosted to 15/1 there is no need for a DOCSIS 3 modem unless you plan, in the next year or two, to move to a higher tier that requires a DOCSIS 3 modem. Right now, 6141 is way too expensive to justify buying one for 15/1 tier. That SBG6580 has very bad reviews. I would recommend avoiding it and, currently, TWC has only ONE OTHER DOCSIS 3 modem on the approved list ...that is the Surfboard 6141 where price gouging is occurring.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


motorola870

join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX
kudos:3

said by Mele20:

said by motorola870:

said by banditws6:

Wow, that is some pretty good info re: all those tests. Unfortunately they all seem to point to the same thing for me: that while my line tests out at about a 17 Mbps capacity, I rarely achieve anything higher than 4. This bears out what I've been experiencing over the last few works, i.e. slow downloads everywhere I go.

Pretty crappy.

banditws6 I would recommend you getting a SB6141 or SBG6580 if you want to get your full speed because I am betting you have a DOCSIS 2.0 modem and with all of the data and not to mention the multiroom DVR guide data and box requests being sent over the DOCSIS channels that a single channel in north texas is congested right now we have 6 DOCSIS channels running in all of the nodes in North Texas it should help you speed issues the only thing is you will lose powerboost. I consistently get 30/5 on extreme with a SBG6580.

He said he went back to Standard at 10/1. He doesn't need a DOCSIS 3modem for Standard tier.

I would not recommend it on Standard tier and especially with the speeds he is getting (4 mbps) he needs Power Boost. His testing that is showing his capacity to be 17MBS probably is due to Power Boost distortion but Power Boost while it screws with most speed tests (Sam Knows tests can filter out Power Boost) is useful on Standard tier. I MISS it on 15/1. I was going back to 10/1 to get it again until TWC decided to up everyone to 15/1 and, I guess, no Power Boost as I have grandfathered Turbo which is 15/1 and there is no Powerboost on it.

Even with Standard tier now boosted to 15/1 there is no need for a DOCSIS 3 modem unless you plan, in the next year or two, to move to a higher tier that requires a DOCSIS 3 modem. Right now, 6141 is way too expensive to justify buying one for 15/1 tier. That SBG6580 has very bad reviews. I would recommend avoiding it and, currently, TWC has only ONE OTHER DOCSIS 3 modem on the approved list ...that is the Surfboard 6141 where price gouging is occurring.

you know what I have a leased SBG6580 and I get my 30/5 constantly the modem is as bad as it seems a lot of the problems are people don't know how to properly bridge the modem.

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

Yeah...I bet they don't know how to bridge it. I had problems bridging the Netgear modem that Sam Knows sent me (and other poblems with it). They finally sent me a TP-Link already in bridge mode.

If you are leasing that SBG6580 then no problem. I thought we were talking about modems that folks are buying. The recommendation for folks buying a modem for RR to avoid the new rental fee is to buy only the 6141 if you need a DOCSIS 3 modem now or in the next year or so.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



motorola870

join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX
kudos:3

said by Mele20:

Yeah...I bet they don't know how to bridge it. I had problems bridging the Netgear modem that Sam Knows sent me (and other poblems with it). They finally sent me a TP-Link already in bridge mode.

If you are leasing that SBG6580 then no problem. I thought we were talking about modems that folks are buying. The recommendation for folks buying a modem for RR to avoid the new rental fee is to buy only the 6141 if you need a DOCSIS 3 modem now or in the next year or so.

well I was. When I got my SB6120 before extreme and ultimate came to my are it was $99 dollars so I think the SB6141 might be a little pricy but still it is a few dollars less than a SB6580 so you might as well buy it. DOCSIS 2.0 is pretty much on its way out if you are buying one of these cheap $50-60 modems you are in a world of hurt because eventually we will probably be seeing 16-24 DOCSIS channels per node and speeds of 300Mbps or more for what ultimate is now at 50Mbps but this is probably at least 2-3 years away in most markets.


banditws6
Shrinking Time and Distance
Premium
join:2001-08-18
Frisco, TX
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to Mele20

Yeah, I'm on Standard 10/1 and that's not gonna change anytime soon, so I don't think a DOCSIS 3 modem is going to do anything for me. I'm currently on a rented Ambit U10C018 which is a DOCSIS 2 modem. It also is a poor quality modem in my opinion due to the number of times I've had to hard-reset it, but I guess it could be worse (at my prior residence I had a COM21 Doxport from Comcast that was truly a piece of junk).

I also tried that OOL large file download test and never got any higher than about 328 KB/sec on it. YouTube is constantly terrible as well (I actually use a video downloader to pull down videos ahead of time so I can watch them without buffering) but I had assumed that was a YouTube congestion issue as many people report it.

Yet, there are a scant few sites where I can pull down about 1 MB/sec., suggesting that perhaps it's not a local issue with my own hardware but a congestion issue, routing issue, or something oddly intermittent.

It's pretty disappointing, to be honest. I was looking at AT&T U-Verse a while back but as long as TWC was operating reliably I thought I had better not mess with a good thing. I'm not sure it's so good anymore. Of course U-Verse has plenty of its own problems, but my coworkers at the office seem to like it...
--
"The counsel of fools is all the more dangerous the more of them there are." -Ólafr Höskuldsson



motorola870

join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX
kudos:3

said by banditws6:

Yeah, I'm on Standard 10/1 and that's not gonna change anytime soon, so I don't think a DOCSIS 3 modem is going to do anything for me. I'm currently on a rented Ambit U10C018 which is a DOCSIS 2 modem. It also is a poor quality modem in my opinion due to the number of times I've had to hard-reset it, but I guess it could be worse (at my prior residence I had a COM21 Doxport from Comcast that was truly a piece of junk).

I also tried that OOL large file download test and never got any higher than about 328 KB/sec on it. YouTube is constantly terrible as well (I actually use a video downloader to pull down videos ahead of time so I can watch them without buffering) but I had assumed that was a YouTube congestion issue as many people report it.

Yet, there are a scant few sites where I can pull down about 1 MB/sec., suggesting that perhaps it's not a local issue with my own hardware but a congestion issue, routing issue, or something oddly intermittent.

It's pretty disappointing, to be honest. I was looking at AT&T U-Verse a while back but as long as TWC was operating reliably I thought I had better not mess with a good thing. I'm not sure it's so good anymore. Of course U-Verse has plenty of its own problems, but my coworkers at the office seem to like it...

6 channels versus 1 will help congestion issues. which you are obviously seeing.


banditws6
Shrinking Time and Distance
Premium
join:2001-08-18
Frisco, TX
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

said by motorola870:

6 channels versus 1 will help congestion issues. which you are obviously seeing.

Really, so even though I am not on a DOCSIS 3 tier, the fact that the modem can utilize a wider variety of channels will help because it can select the least congested one? Or would it actually bond channels (even though I'm on the 10/1 tier) until it could deliver the service I'm rated for?

Sorry, I am new to the whole DOCSIS 3 thing and haven't spent much time studying how it works. I had assumed that a DOCSIS 3 modem would not operate any differently than my DOCSIS 2 modem on the Standard 10/1 tier.

Edit: In doing a little reading on this just now, it seems you are right. Huh, frankly I would give up Powerboost to get a consistent 10 megabits. I'm not seeing the benefits of PB right now as it is!


Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11

D2 Modems on D3 systems can use dynamic channel changing to pick a less congested channel. They cannot use multiple channels at the same time (that's why D3 modems exist).

Even on a 10/1 tier, a D3 modem will bond all available channels.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!



hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
kudos:10
reply to Mele20

♠"I had problems bridging the Netgear modem that Sam Knows sent me (and other poblems with it). They finally sent me a TP-Link already in bridge mode."

I think you meant Router. Sam Knows were not sending out Cable modems.

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

Yes, Sam Knows sends out routers but the discussion was about a weird hybrid router, wireless modem that is junk. So, I was responding to the router aspect of that crappy Motorola hybrid.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:15
reply to Thinkdiff

said by Thinkdiff:

D2 Modems on D3 systems can use dynamic channel changing to pick a less congested channel. They cannot use multiple channels at the same time (that's why D3 modems exist).

Small, but important correction: The modem doesn't pick the channel. The CMTS commands the modem to use a specific channel at a specific time or condition.

If the channel is congested the modem won't switch unless the CMTS orders it.
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.


tonyram57

join:2001-11-08
Brooklyn, NY

What about my question? Would a 3.0 modem help with the few second drops.



DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:15

said by tonyram57:

What about my question? Would a 3.0 modem help with the few second drops.

It might. Depends on the cause of the drops.

The drops might be caused by the CMTS telling your modem to switch channels due to congestion or upstream channel signal interference. If it's caused by such switching a D3 modem would help.

It the drops aren't caused by the CMTS switching channels on your modem, a D3 modem may not help.
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.


Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11
reply to DrDrew

I knew somebody would correct that when I wrote it.. I didn't want to confuse everybody by throwing the CMTS into the mix. But you're correct.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!



motorola870

join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX
kudos:3
reply to banditws6

said by banditws6:

said by motorola870:

6 channels versus 1 will help congestion issues. which you are obviously seeing.

Really, so even though I am not on a DOCSIS 3 tier, the fact that the modem can utilize a wider variety of channels will help because it can select the least congested one? Or would it actually bond channels (even though I'm on the 10/1 tier) until it could deliver the service I'm rated for?

Sorry, I am new to the whole DOCSIS 3 thing and haven't spent much time studying how it works. I had assumed that a DOCSIS 3 modem would not operate any differently than my DOCSIS 2 modem on the Standard 10/1 tier.

Edit: In doing a little reading on this just now, it seems you are right. Huh, frankly I would give up Powerboost to get a consistent 10 megabits. I'm not seeing the benefits of PB right now as it is!

I wouldn't of recommend a DOCSIS 3.0 modem if I knew that our market only had one channel. I know there were some rumblings that they were looking to increase the speeds soon due to adding a 5th and 6th downstream. Also the DOCSIS 3.0 modems bond on the upstream here so that would almost be a 100% given you will always get the 1Mbps upload.

here is what North Texas has for DOCSIS channels!

Downstream Bonded Channels
Channel Lock Status Modulation Channel ID Frequency Power SNR Correctables Uncorrectables
1 Locked QAM256 1 783000000 Hz -4.9 dBmV 37.5 dB 391 2
2 Locked QAM256 2 789000000 Hz -5.1 dBmV 37.5 dB 260 0
3 Locked QAM256 3 795000000 Hz -5.7 dBmV 37.1 dB 338 0
4 Locked QAM256 4 801000000 Hz -5.8 dBmV 36.7 dB 638 0
5 Locked QAM256 5 807000000 Hz -6.5 dBmV 35.9 dB 1748 0
6 Locked QAM256 6 813000000 Hz -6.5 dBmV 36.7 dB 1309 0
7 Not Locked Unknown 0 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB 0 0
8 Not Locked Unknown 0 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB 0 0

Upstream Bonded Channels
Channel Lock Status US Channel Type Channel ID Symbol Rate Frequency Power
1 Locked TDMA and ATDMA 10 2560 Ksym/sec 33000000 Hz 42.7 dBmV
2 Locked TDMA and ATDMA 9 2560 Ksym/sec 36500000 Hz 42.7 dBmV
3 Locked TDMA and ATDMA 11 2560 Ksym/sec 29500000 Hz 42.7 dBmV
4 Locked TDMA and ATDMA 12 2560 Ksym/sec 24500000 Hz 42.7 dBmV


banditws6
Shrinking Time and Distance
Premium
join:2001-08-18
Frisco, TX
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

Sweet, thanks for the details! That's exactly what I was looking for RE: the available channels in this area.

I'm probably going to look at getting a SB6141; despite the expense I do rely on stable Internet connectivity for work-related stuff and it's probably worth it in my case.
--
"The counsel of fools is all the more dangerous the more of them there are." -Ólafr Höskuldsson



motorola870

join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX
kudos:3

said by banditws6:

Sweet, thanks for the details! That's exactly what I was looking for RE: the available channels in this area.

I'm probably going to look at getting a SB6141; despite the expense I do rely on stable Internet connectivity for work-related stuff and it's probably worth it in my case.

the channel id's may vary but yeah that is all of the frequencies in North Texas. Really depends if you are on a Cisco CMTS or a ARRIS CMTS and the ARRIS will have 1-6 on the downstream and the Cisco will have something like 60-67 or 120-127 on the downstream for example. I was on a Cisco CMTS for a long time and then TWC fired up a brand new ARRIS C4 to feed parts of Arlington.