 RobIn Deo speramus.Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:3 | reply to ptrowski
Re: We've passed Peak Apple.... At least for me, while I like my iPhone, I'm turned off my Apple's continue lawsuits. What happened with winning through competition, and not through lawsuits?
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KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | said by Rob:At least for me, while I like my iPhone, I'm turned off my Apple's continue lawsuits. What happened with winning through competition, and not through lawsuits?
They realized they could not maintain the lead they once had. Naturally they bust out the lawsuits. Sad state of business but that seems to be how portable computing works today, Can't beat em then sue em.
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DaemonPremium
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| said by Kearnstd:They realized they could not maintain the lead they once had. Naturally they bust out the lawsuits. Sad state of business but that seems to be how portable computing works today, Can't beat em then sue em.
Or, perhaps, they felt that many Android features were a direct rip-off of iOS features and wanted them to stop. Apple hasn't sued Microsoft, Nokia, Amazon, or Barnes and Noble. They didn't go after Palm when it was around either.
(I predict the inevitable responses to this post will be something about patenting rounded rectangles and that software patents are bogus.)
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I use Linux, OS X, iOS and Windows. Let the OS wars die. |
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 GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
 ·Dish Network
| It's because Google is eventually going to eat their lunch and they can see it coming.
The only reason the tech rags rag on Apple is to see the reaction from the iFans. Again, it's from Apple acting like they have these magical devices.
I have to quit this thread before I get banned. The fanboyism is making me ill.
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DaemonPremium
join:2003-06-29
San Francisco, CA
1 edit | Upon reflection I do not wish to post. |
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Reviews:
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| reply to Daemon
said by Daemon:Or, perhaps, they felt that many Android features were a direct rip-off of iOS features and wanted them to stop. Oh really? An OS made with a Linux core (Android) shares features like an OS made from a UNIX core (iOS)? When does an OS not share features?
quote:
Apple hasn't sued Microsoft
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Comp···poration
The court ruled that, "Apple cannot get patent-like protection for the idea of a graphical user interface, or the idea of a desktop metaphor [under copyright law]..."[1] In the midst of the Apple v. Microsoft lawsuit, Xerox also sued Apple alleging that Mac's GUI was heavily based on Xerox's.
quote:
Nokia
»news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20029047-37.html
Apple sues Nokia over iPhone scrolling patent
quote:
Amazon
»www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/web/03/22/···dex.html
Apple sues Amazon over 'app store' name
quote:
or Barnes and Noble
You actually got one right. Microsoft sued Barnes and Noble.
Apple has a long history of making good devices and then acting like it invented the entire market. You wanna also say that Apple invented the term App store?
Did apple also invent the apple? Is that why they suing poland grocery stores for having an apple logo?
»www.webpronews.com/apple-sues-on···-2012-09 |
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sk1939Premium
join:2010-10-23
Washington, DC
kudos:9 Reviews:
 ·T-Mobile US
| said by Metatron2008:said by Daemon:Or, perhaps, they felt that many Android features were a direct rip-off of iOS features and wanted them to stop. Oh really? An OS made with a Linux core (Android) shares features like an OS made from a UNIX core (iOS)? When does an OS not share features? quote:
Apple hasn't sued Microsoft
» en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Comp···porationThe court ruled that, "Apple cannot get patent-like protection for the idea of a graphical user interface, or the idea of a desktop metaphor [under copyright law]..."[1] In the midst of the Apple v. Microsoft lawsuit, Xerox also sued Apple alleging that Mac's GUI was heavily based on Xerox's. quote:
Nokia
» news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20029047-37.htmlApple sues Nokia over iPhone scrolling patent quote:
Amazon
» www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/web/03/22/···dex.htmlApple sues Amazon over 'app store' name quote:
or Barnes and Noble
You actually got one right. Microsoft sued Barnes and Noble. Apple has a long history of making good devices and then acting like it invented the entire market. You wanna also say that Apple invented the term App store? Did apple also invent the apple? Is that why they suing poland grocery stores for having an apple logo? » www.webpronews.com/apple-sues-on···-2012-09 The lawsuits are an interesting issue. Apple also sued Samsung (now infamously) over the design of the iPhone (literally rectangle with rounded edges and a prominent screen). |
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KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | reply to Daemon
said by Daemon:Or, perhaps, they felt that many Android features were a direct rip-off of iOS features and wanted them to stop. Apple hasn't sued Microsoft, Nokia, Amazon, or Barnes and Noble. They didn't go after Palm when it was around either. Maybe maybe not. But Apple's patents are like saying Blizzard should be able to patent "The use of Elves in a fantasy MMORPG setting."
Or Lucas Film being able to patent triangle shaped space ships for use in science fiction and then suing whoever holds the current rights to Asteroids.
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 ptrowskiGot Helix?Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4 | reply to sk1939
But yet Apple blatantly stole the clock design in iOS 6 and were caught. |
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DaemonPremium
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2 edits | reply to Metatron2008
said by Metatron2008:You actually got one right. Microsoft sued Barnes and Noble.
Apple has a long history of making good devices and then acting like it invented the entire market. You wanna also say that Apple invented the term App store?
I was talking about patents and mobile operating systems, not lawsuits from decades ago or those involving trademarks (which operate completely differently--if you don't sue on a trademark, you lose it by default). So you got me on the Nokia one, but the rest are not relevant in this context.
Stating Android v iOS is about Linux vs Unix is a little silly. The core is not where the controversies arise--nearly all of the lawsuits have been about interfaces not about core feature implementations. Some of them have been algorithmic, but none have involved the actual kernel of the operating system that I am aware of. (The only 'core' lawsuit I can think of is Oracle vs Google re:Android APIs)
And not all OSes share UI features. Apple likes to use Windows Phone as an example of how you can do things in a different enough way that you don't infringe, while still making a device that does all the things users want.
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-Ryan
I use Linux, OS X, iOS and Windows. Let the OS wars die. |
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| reply to ptrowski
said by ptrowski:But yet Apple blatantly stole the clock design in iOS 6 and were caught.
patents and trademarks are not the same thing and the vast vast vast majority of timepiece dial designs are not protected under anything, there's a reason you can find 5 bajillion perfectly legal submariner homages and their isn't a single thing Rolex can do outside of their protected crown logo and name |
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sk1939Premium
join:2010-10-23
Washington, DC
kudos:9 Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
| reply to Daemon
Windows Phone also benefits from the fact that it isn't a strong competitor to Apple unlike Android.
As far as patents go, Apple holds a number of patents that are overly broad, and can claim patent infringement on a wide variety of things. Apple also has a tendency to claim it invented things (debatable) when in reality they just improved on existing technology (the Mp3 player was along well before the iPod was out). |
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DaemonPremium
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| said by sk1939:As far as patents go, Apple holds a number of patents that are overly broad, and can claim patent infringement on a wide variety of things.
Given that companies have a fiduciary duty to shareholders, anyone that thinks Apple wouldn't or shouldn't patent what they do has his or her head in the clouds. If you don't like the patents because you think they are overly broad, then you should take up the fight against the federal circuit and supreme courts, not Apple. The federal circuit in particular has become problematic.
If you look at the history of the way Android was developed and combine that with the emails that came out during the Oracle trial, it's clear those at the top chose to ignore potential IP problems, whether willfully or naively. It's biting them in the rear now. Microsoft is too smart, with too long of a history, to let that happen to them, instead choosing to cross license with Apple to get patents they could and modify the UI of WP otherwise.
In the history of the litigation over mobile UI patents, Apple has tried to bring out big guns that cover large parts of multi touch interfaces and have quickly and frequently found that those patents don't hold up to closer scrutiny and claims get tossed out. Instead, they are now using patents on very specific features of iOS, like the over scroll physics. The lawsuit against Samsung, once all the claims on both sides were narrowed, really came down to 'don't make your phones look just like ours' and 'don't copy our OS down to minute details'.
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I use Linux, OS X, iOS and Windows. Let the OS wars die. |
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sk1939Premium
join:2010-10-23
Washington, DC
kudos:9 Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
| said by Daemon:said by sk1939:As far as patents go, Apple holds a number of patents that are overly broad, and can claim patent infringement on a wide variety of things.
Given that companies have a fiduciary duty to shareholders, anyone that thinks Apple wouldn't or shouldn't patent what they do has his or her head in the clouds. If you don't like the patents because you think they are overly broad, then you should take up the fight against the federal circuit and supreme courts, not Apple. The federal circuit in particular has become problematic. If you look at the history of the way Android was developed and combine that with the emails that came out during the Oracle trial, it's clear those at the top chose to ignore potential IP problems, whether willfully or naively. It's biting them in the rear now. Microsoft is too smart, with too long of a history, to let that happen to them, instead choosing to cross license with Apple to get patents they could and modify the UI of WP otherwise. In the history of the litigation over mobile UI patents, Apple has tried to bring out big guns that cover large parts of multi touch interfaces and have quickly and frequently found that those patents don't hold up to closer scrutiny and claims get tossed out. Instead, they are now using patents on very specific features of iOS, like the over scroll physics. The lawsuit against Samsung, once all the claims on both sides were narrowed, really came down to 'don't make your phones look just like ours' and 'don't copy our OS down to minute details'. I do hold the court/patent system responsible, but I hold the companies socially responsible for doing something they know is questionable.
I agree that in Samsungs case it was a case where the phones were similar, but it was not necessarily the case with the lawsuit against HTC. The question as far as looks go is how similar/different does a design have to be to not be "close" or a copy of Apple's design. That is the problem with the court case as they have not defined the boundary for such a broad design patent. |
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ptrowskiGot Helix?Premium
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| reply to Jimothy
said by Jimothy :said by ptrowski:But yet Apple blatantly stole the clock design in iOS 6 and were caught.
patents and trademarks are not the same thing and the vast vast vast majority of timepiece dial designs are not protected under anything, there's a reason you can find 5 bajillion perfectly legal submariner homages and their isn't a single thing Rolex can do outside of their protected crown logo and name Right, so that is why apple coughed up $21 million to use it? Nice try.
»www.slashgear.com/apple-cash-sum···2256573/
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DaemonPremium
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| reply to sk1939
said by sk1939:I agree that in Samsungs case it was a case where the phones were similar, but it was not necessarily the case with the lawsuit against HTC. The question as far as looks go is how similar/different does a design have to be to not be "close" or a copy of Apple's design. That is the problem with the court case as they have not defined the boundary for such a broad design patent.
To the best of my knowledge, Apple didn't assert any design patents against HTC, so none of that case was about how HTC's phones looked.
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I use Linux, OS X, iOS and Windows. Let the OS wars die. |
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sk1939Premium
join:2010-10-23
Washington, DC
kudos:9 Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
| said by Daemon:said by sk1939:I agree that in Samsungs case it was a case where the phones were similar, but it was not necessarily the case with the lawsuit against HTC. The question as far as looks go is how similar/different does a design have to be to not be "close" or a copy of Apple's design. That is the problem with the court case as they have not defined the boundary for such a broad design patent.
To the best of my knowledge, Apple didn't assert any design patents against HTC, so none of that case was about how HTC's phones looked. One of the patents Apple sued on was design (afformentioned rectangle with rounded corners) as well as the use of a mutli-touch interface on a phone and others. |
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DaemonPremium
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| said by sk1939:One of the patents Apple sued on was design (afformentioned rectangle with rounded corners) as well as the use of a mutli-touch interface on a phone and others.
No, I think you're wrong. The list of the first 20 patents Apple asserted against HTC is here: »www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/appl···eakdown/
They later added 5 more in a separate complaint: »www.fosspatents.com/2011/07/appl···int.html
None of those are design related patents.
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-Ryan
I use Linux, OS X, iOS and Windows. Let the OS wars die. |
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Reviews:
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| reply to Daemon
said by Daemon:said by Metatron2008:You actually got one right. Microsoft sued Barnes and Noble.
Apple has a long history of making good devices and then acting like it invented the entire market. You wanna also say that Apple invented the term App store?
I was talking about patents and mobile operating systems, not lawsuits from decades ago or those involving trademarks (which operate completely differently--if you don't sue on a trademark, you lose it by default). So you got me on the Nokia one, but the rest are not relevant in this context. Stating Android v iOS is about Linux vs Unix is a little silly. The core is not where the controversies arise--nearly all of the lawsuits have been about interfaces not about core feature implementations. Some of them have been algorithmic, but none have involved the actual kernel of the operating system that I am aware of. (The only 'core' lawsuit I can think of is Oracle vs Google re:Android APIs) And not all OSes share UI features. Apple likes to use Windows Phone as an example of how you can do things in a different enough way that you don't infringe, while still making a device that does all the things users want. The microsoft one is related, as they actually sued for look and feel of various icons. They sued because a garbage can on windows looks similar to a garbage can on mac os.
And saying you have to sue based on a trademark is a rediculous method of excusing a company suing a grocery store, WHICH SELLS APPLES, for having an apple logo. That is bullying, from a company that doesn't want anybody else using it's 'forbidden fruit'. |
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sk1939Premium
join:2010-10-23
Washington, DC
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| reply to Daemon
Design of the GUI rather than the device itself. |
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