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jfleni

@bhn.net

Would not happen with all fiber.

If Comcast ran just fiber instead of their archaic cable kludge, internal household power and very small electronic devices would take care of everything. But a cable company is fixated on the antique technology they've had since 1950, and doesn't want to change. All of it, DOCSIS and all the rest is totally past tense.

Don't believe it? Just look at any FIOS installation anywhere.


Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

1 edit
said by jfleni :

If Comcast ran just fiber instead of their archaic cable kludge, internal household power and very small electronic devices would take care of everything. But a cable company is fixated on the antique technology they've had since 1950, and doesn't want to change. All of it, DOCSIS and all the rest is totally past tense.

1. It costs several millions (if not billions) of dollars to deploy a full fiber setup.
2. Recent Coaxial Cable technology isn't the old 1950's crap and can handle several GHz without a ton of loss.
3. At the ONT the TV signal gets converted to Coax, Internet goes to RJ45, and your phone goes to RJ11. You don't see a fiber line connecting them directly.

Now, the real misery is twisted pair. There's a technology that hasn't changed in a century.
--
Bresnan 30M/5M | CenturyLink 5M/896K
MyWS[PnmIIX3@3.2G,8G RAM,500G+1.5T+2T HDDs,Win7]
WifeWS[A64@2G,2G RAM,120G HDD,Win7]
Router[2xP3@1G,2G RAM,18G HDD,Allied Telesyn AT2560FX,2xDigital DE504,Sun X1034A,2xSun X4444A,SMC 8432BTA,Gentoo]


tshirt
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to jfleni
said by jfleni :

Don't believe it? Just look at any FIOS installation anywhere.

The problem being, overbuilding an all new all fiber plant over your own footprint is prohibitively expensive as verizon found out and is the reason you can't look at a FIOS installlation anywhere, only in some parts of verizon's now extremely limited wireline footprint.

There are good reasons to make use of the existing plant (currently offering upto 305Mbps, more as newer technology is deployed)

elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to jfleni
What? HFC is MUCH different than in twisted pair (phone). FTTN makes perfect sense for cable since coax is FAR superior to TP for signal loss, bandwidth, and protection.

Fibre is the ultimate, and I'm guessing that over time the cable renaissance will be over and they will need to run fibre or supplement with wireless, but not for a very long time. Over time costs to implement will come down and it will make sense to do fibre.

The most absolute ridiculous thing is that telecom should be treated as a utility. 1 fibre to the house. Outside of that, let the vendors compete. Cost-wise it doesn't make sense for Comcast and Verizon to dig up your lawn and run 2 fibres to it and then put in expensive termination equipment. I have 2 HPNA, 1 fibre, and one clipped TP terminal on the side of my house. I have 1 gas line, 1 electrical, 1 sewer, 1 drain, but I have 4 different telecom access lines, only using 1.

If you can get fibre to the neighborhood, then you can deliver the services over coax and much more than is necessary today from a speed perspective. 15-20 Mbit can easily handle 4-5 HD on demand streams. Once they start bonding uplink channels the upstream speeds will go up. D3 barely uses and of the high-speed tricks. D3.1 (I've read) can go to gigabit speeds.

Even At&T bandaid (Uverse) can get to 75Mbit, which should suffice if not for the arms race on speed. People will pay, so the market is there.....

I have 25/25 and it works just fine.

The big problem they have is that in power outages the nodes run out of power, and you lose connectivity. In passive optical, you can have better backup solutions.


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
reply to tshirt
said by tshirt:

There are good reasons to make use of the existing plant (currently offering upto 305Mbps, more as newer technology is deployed)

Comcast's 305 mbps tier is not on existing plant .Its fiber to the house.


Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
said by DataRiker:

Comcast's 305 mbps tier is not on existing plant .Its fiber to the house.

Technically, DOCSIS 3 could deliver these speeds since it maxes out at around 304mbps DS and 108mbps US (with overhead).


nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to Simba7
said by Simba7:

2. Recent Coaxial Cable technology isn't the old 1950's crap and can handle several GHz without a ton of loss.

Eh? Let's try this: "Recent twisted pair technology isn't the old 1950's crap and can handle several hundred MHz without a ton of loss."
said by Simba7:

Now, the real misery is twisted pair. There's a technology that hasn't changed in a century.

And: "The real misery is copper. There's a technology that hasn't changed in... ever."

Better electronics, tighter manufacturing tolerances have improved the capacity of both of these transmission methods dramatically.


DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:20
reply to jfleni
said by jfleni :

If Comcast ran just fiber instead of their archaic cable kludge, internal household power and very small electronic devices would take care of everything.

Apparently you've never seen a FIOS splice and splitter cabinet.

The ones I've seen for the neighborhood are often the size of that Comcast cabinet pictured. Check out the cabinet on the left.
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.


tshirt
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to DataRiker
It is existing plant, to the node and the last 1/2 mile build out is partly paid for by the install and the 3year contract.
Fios-like PON(epon/gpon) type plants require all new fiber to/from the co with all passive equipment in between, a much more expensive design, total plant replacement.


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

1 edit
Existing plant would be coax.

Nobody here doubts they will use their existing fiber, but running a new last mile is certainly not existing plant. You have to include that, and that can be the most difficult and costly part of their plant.

This is not a trivial matter by any means.


Mone

@ncat.edu
reply to Simba7
said by Simba7:

said by jfleni :

If Comcast ran just fiber instead of their archaic cable kludge, internal household power and very small electronic devices would take care of everything. But a cable company is fixated on the antique technology they've had since 1950, and doesn't want to change. All of it, DOCSIS and all the rest is totally past tense.

1. It costs several millions (if not billions) of dollars to deploy a full fiber setup.
2. Recent Coaxial Cable technology isn't the old 1950's crap and can handle several GHz without a ton of loss.
3. At the ONT the TV signal gets converted to Coax, Internet goes to RJ45, and your phone goes to RJ11. You don't see a fiber line connecting them directly.

Now, the real misery is twisted pair. There's a technology that hasn't changed in a century.

My install for TV has regular ethernet lines going to the set top boxes then from the set top we have HDMI going to our TV's. Not sure what you are talking about with the coax to tv?


Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
said by Mone :

My install for TV has regular ethernet lines going to the set top boxes then from the set top we have HDMI going to our TV's. Not sure what you are talking about with the coax to tv?

The "normal" way of doing it is to run fiber to the ONT. Then there are ports on the ONT for RJ11, RJ45, and RJ6 Coax.

Your provider is doing something different, although I question on running RJ45 for all unless it's IPTV-based.
--
Bresnan 30M/5M | CenturyLink 5M/896K
MyWS[PnmIIX3@3.2G,8G RAM,500G+1.5T+2T HDDs,Win7]
WifeWS[A64@2G,2G RAM,120G HDD,Win7]
Router[2xP3@1G,2G RAM,18G HDD,Allied Telesyn AT2560FX,2xDigital DE504,Sun X1034A,2xSun X4444A,SMC 8432BTA,Gentoo]


tshirt
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to DataRiker
And the almost $4k a year price will help pay for that extension of the fiber from the node.
But it is still leveraging the existing plant investment.
If you want to see it differently ..go ahead.
And suppose the sub quits early? then the $1100 EFT kicks in and comcast makes that fiber drop a new node on the HFC plant and now can offer Metro-E to peeps in it's 1/2 mile (wire length) reach.
This is high end users paying for the cost of adding more last half mile capacity... as always early adoptors pay the biggest share of the cost. And this basic idea can (eventually) extend Metro-E to almost every place a modern cable plant exists, IF they are permited to build normal infrastructure like the boxes (which could be painted a less noticable color).