dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
12029
share rss forum feed

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
reply to cowboyro

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

said by cowboyro:

But I'd be damned if I can understand those people in NY waiting 6hrs in line for $25 worth of gas when they could have found plenty of gas with a 1hr drive.

Maybe they didn't have enough gas to drive an hour.

said by cowboyro:

Worst case scenario you can drive 1-2hrs to an unaffected area, buy a bunch of cans and fill them...

I heard that gas cans were sold out as far away as Albany.

Pher9999

join:2011-07-06
Carmel, NY
Living 60 miles north of the city along the i84 coridor and we have gas shortages here at times. and our Fuel comes out of Newburg. The issue is people who live here and work in the metro area are buying gas to bring down to people there. Some are selling for alot of money. Gas prices here have started to rise.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to Bob4
said by Bob4:

I heard that gas cans were sold out as far away as Albany.

So the cheap way to live off gasoline for extended outages is: Buy large (or many) gasoline containers and fill them up when there's a chance things will go bad. If things don't go bad, use it up on the cars.

5 Gallon tanks are like 10$ each.
Buy 10, you have 50 gallons! That's almost 10 days if you ration.
They'd fit easily in a minivan.

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
said by alkizmo:

said by Bob4:

I heard that gas cans were sold out as far away as Albany.

So the cheap way to live off gasoline for extended outages is: Buy large (or many) gasoline containers and fill them up when there's a chance things will go bad. If things don't go bad, use it up on the cars.

That is certainly one strategy.

It's at odds with Murphy's Law, however.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
said by Bob4:

That is certainly one strategy.

It's at odds with Murphy's Law, however.

20 x 5 gallon cans!

I do admit though, that if my generator shed was close enough to the house, I'd plan on going NG.

So I had to sacrifice the convenience of NG to gain the convenience of running a generator in a locked, secured, discrete, weatherproof location.

A stolen generator is no generator (Yes people would steal a NG generator).


cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
reply to Bob4
said by Bob4:

said by cowboyro:

But I'd be damned if I can understand those people in NY waiting 6hrs in line for $25 worth of gas when they could have found plenty of gas with a 1hr drive.

Maybe they didn't have enough gas to drive an hour.

Get gas, drive 1hr, get more gas...
said by Bob4:

said by cowboyro:

Worst case scenario you can drive 1-2hrs to an unaffected area, buy a bunch of cans and fill them...

I heard that gas cans were sold out as far away as Albany.

They weren't sold out in CT. Gas stations, Home Depot, Lowes had a bunch of them. I am 1hr away from NYC (make it 1:30 with some traffic).

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
reply to alkizmo
said by alkizmo:

said by Bob4:

That is certainly one strategy.

It's at odds with Murphy's Law, however.

20 x 5 gallon cans!

That would guarantee the power would stay on.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
said by Bob4:

That would guarantee the power would stay on.

Until you give it/share it all away to those in need, then suddenly a second snow storm appears and then need it

Lesson: Hoard gasoline!


cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to rjgogo
said by rjgogo:

I must be way below national average as I just paid about a dollar less than what you are quoting for propane.

Taken from the EIA website for Propane prices. That's residential price. Wholesale is $1/gallon. It's probably going to depend a lot on where you're at, how much you are buying, pricing contracts, etc. Even at a dollar less natural gas is still cheaper per equivalent unit of energy.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to alkizmo
said by alkizmo:

said by Bob4:

I heard that gas cans were sold out as far away as Albany.

So the cheap way to live off gasoline for extended outages is: Buy large (or many) gasoline containers and fill them up when there's a chance things will go bad. If things don't go bad, use it up on the cars.

5 Gallon tanks are like 10$ each.
Buy 10, you have 50 gallons! That's almost 10 days if you ration.
They'd fit easily in a minivan.

I keep 4 cans. That's enough to last me over a week if I run the generator with limited service. I also keep the generator topped up with stabilized fuel, refilling with fresh fuel every time I do its exercise.

I'll probably buy 2-3 more cans.

I store the gas in a shed away from the house.


ITICharlie1
Premium
join:2003-01-22
St. Louis MO
reply to alkizmo
Luckily my gas meter in the basement is close to the wall where I can run the pipe to the outside for the connector, which is near my garage where I store and run my generator, so the cost to have the gas plumbed would not be that much. I would only need about a 30' hose from the outside disconnect to the where I run the generator. The main problem is choosing which kit to use. The Honda is 13 Hp, so I need to find an easy to install kit made for this engine that works well.
--
Don't let my reality hinder your imagination!


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
Kit 4 from the link (second post, from me!) would do.
Just because they say kit C is easier to install than kit 4 doesn't mean it's actually HARD.

Aranarth

join:2011-11-04
Stanwood, MI
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..

1 recommendation

reply to ITICharlie1
You know 50 gallon oil barrels are dead easy to find and store gasoline just fine for you and you can find standard hand pumps for oil/gas that fit into the larger screw cap. Junk yards almost always have them on hand. If you are going to hoard gasoline go that way.

If you need larger amount you can also find 250gal tanks with hand pump specific for storing diesel and gas fuels.

Since I'm classified as a farm (equine and large animal) I can get gas at a discount. I've forgotten what the exact discount is for farm use since the tanks are filled by my in-laws who also run their own farming operation. If I remember correctly, part of the discount is wholesale price and reduced taxes since we are not driving on the road.

The biggest rule is the fuel can only be used for farm operations and equipment and a dye is added to keep you honest. We buy regular gas for our vehicles. We used to have a farm truck which was an old beat up 1/2 ton and that was the only vehicle that could use the fuel. (It never went on the main road and was only driven on dirt road and two tracks.)

If you run a hobby farm for profit or larger this is also an option.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
I had no idea they sold dyed, untaxed gasoline. I thought they only did that with diesel.

Around here they sell off road diesel which doesn't have the road tax and it's about 50 cents less than regular on-road diesel. OF course it has the red dye so if you use it in your truck, the cops pull you over and dip your tank... thousands in fines.

rjgogo

join:2003-10-22
reply to cdru
said by cdru:

said by rjgogo:

I must be way below national average as I just paid about a dollar less than what you are quoting for propane.

Taken from the EIA website for Propane prices. That's residential price. Wholesale is $1/gallon. It's probably going to depend a lot on where you're at, how much you are buying, pricing contracts, etc. Even at a dollar less natural gas is still cheaper per equivalent unit of energy.

I just paid 1.38 delivered to my 500 gallon tank in IL. So that is a residential price. I don't have access to NG.

Aranarth

join:2011-11-04
Stanwood, MI
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
reply to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:

I had no idea they sold dyed, untaxed gasoline. I thought they only did that with diesel.

This might be unique to MI.
I could also be confused that it is both when it is only one since I don't pay the bill.


nunya
LXI 483
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
The off-road gasoline form FS is dyed red, just like the diesel.

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

1 recommendation

reply to nunya
said by nunya:

On to propane. Propane stores well. It doesn't go bad. Even in a power outage, it can still be dispensed (in many cases). There isn't quite the demand of gasoline (every swinging dick with a set of keys is looking for gasoline).

From talking with friends in N. Jersey, propane was equally hard to get. Most places that had the exchanges were out quickly as everyone was getting them for their grills and such. Those places that refilled had lines too.

Also, I can't remember a time that I filled up a propane tank where they didn't have some sort of electric motor to help the liquid along. Not sure if it would work if that was out.

I thnk storing 100-200+ lbs of propane is just as dangerous as 50 gallons of gas. Rotating gas is simple since every car that runs on gasoline can use it.

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
The propane is a lot more dangerous.

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
said by Bob4:

The propane is a lot more dangerous.

True. I park almost 40 gallons of gasoline inside daily. 19 gallons in my car and 16 in the wife's.

telco_mtl

join:2012-01-06
reply to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:

I had no idea they sold dyed, untaxed gasoline. I thought they only did that with diesel.

Around here they sell off road diesel which doesn't have the road tax and it's about 50 cents less than regular on-road diesel. OF course it has the red dye so if you use it in your truck, the cops pull you over and dip your tank... thousands in fines.

its like that up here too, they have colored unleaded at the co-op that can also be delivered to farms.


nunya
LXI 483
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
Reviews:
·Charter
·voip.ms
·surpasshosting
reply to itguy05
First of all, I never said storing gasoline is dangerous. Although it can be. It's inconvenient if you don't have a way to cycle it through (most people have cars or lawn mowers).
Storing propane isn't nearly as dangerous as what people here are making it out to be. I'd be far more comfortable storing propane vs. gasoline though. Propane tanks are pretty well built. Just follow the rules.

If you'll re-read my post, I was simply saying having OPTIONS is the benefit of tri-fuel. I wasn't picking any winners.

There are people on this site, and in this particular forum, who will twist my words to try and post anything they can to appear counter to me. I swear to god, if I were to put up a one word post that said "Black", withing minutes there would be a 5 paragraph dissertation screaming "white" and extolling the negative virtues of the word black.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.

garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
·Callcentric
·callwithus
said by nunya:

If you'll re-read my post, I was simply saying having OPTIONS is the benefit of tri-fuel. I wasn't picking any winners.

True enough, it's about having OPTIONS, each person can pick the best choice for themselves. I'm likely going to buy a tri-fuel kit for my portable generator just because I'd like to have the flexibility.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to telco_mtl
said by telco_mtl:

said by fifty nine:

I had no idea they sold dyed, untaxed gasoline. I thought they only did that with diesel.

Around here they sell off road diesel which doesn't have the road tax and it's about 50 cents less than regular on-road diesel. OF course it has the red dye so if you use it in your truck, the cops pull you over and dip your tank... thousands in fines.

its like that up here too, they have colored unleaded at the co-op that can also be delivered to farms.

Are you in Canada?


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1
reply to nunya
said by nunya:

First of all, I never said storing gasoline is dangerous. Although it can be. It's inconvenient if you don't have a way to cycle it through (most people have cars or lawn mowers).
Storing propane isn't nearly as dangerous as what people here are making it out to be. I'd be far more comfortable storing propane vs. gasoline though. Propane tanks are pretty well built. Just follow the rules.

If you'll re-read my post, I was simply saying having OPTIONS is the benefit of tri-fuel. I wasn't picking any winners.

There are people on this site, and in this particular forum, who will twist my words to try and post anything they can to appear counter to me. I swear to god, if I were to put up a one word post that said "Black", withing minutes there would be a 5 paragraph dissertation screaming "white" and extolling the negative virtues of the word black.

Well, I'll agree with your position on this one nunya. As I said before, my only concern would be vapor lock on a smaller tank, but barring that, propane makes a lot of sense for this application.


AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1
reply to robbin
said by robbin:

said by alkizmo:

said by SwedishRider:

Your NG setup would be similar to my propane setup, and trust me... it'll be awesome to have virtually limitless fuel right on site when you need it.

meh I wish I could do it too. Then again, so far I don't see the NG line upgrade cost amortize itself vs. price of fuel anytime soon

I'm curious -- how do you quantify this? If you look at what happened after Sandy, the actual cost of fuel after a disaster appears to be the smallest part of the equation.

this this this this this this this
--
* seek help if having trouble coping
--Standard disclaimers apply.--


AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1
reply to SwedishRider
said by SwedishRider:

said by alkizmo:

said by SwedishRider:

Your NG setup would be similar to my propane setup, and trust me... it'll be awesome to have virtually limitless fuel right on site when you need it.

meh I wish I could do it too. Then again, so far I don't see the NG line upgrade cost amortize itself vs. price of fuel anytime soon

This is a situation where return on investment can't be measured purely in monetary value. You may not realize that return in lower fuel costs.... but ask those folks down in NY and Jersey about cost and they'd tell you they don't care about price per gallon of gasoline, they can't buy any gallons of it to save their souls and keep warm in these freezing temperatures. Their generator setups are worthless without fuel to run them. Nobody could have predicted that their setups would not yield the intended result, but in their case... it happened. How many of them would have gladly spent the money for a NG or propane hookup if available to them to do so... my guess is quite a few. And this could go on for weeks more for them..

Sometimes you spend money knowing you may never get a monetary return on it, but use trumps return... and IMHO, this is one of those cases. I'd rather have my propane setup over a pure gasoline setup when the you-know-what hits the fan.

you nedd a bcak up to the back up and a backup to the backup backup.
--
* seek help if having trouble coping
--Standard disclaimers apply.--


AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1
reply to nunya
said by nunya:

If you'll re-read my post, I was simply saying having OPTIONS is the benefit of tri-fuel. I wasn't picking any winners.

precisely
--
* seek help if having trouble coping
--Standard disclaimers apply.--

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
reply to nunya
Nunya,

I wasn't trying to twist your words or anything like that.

I was simply pointing out that everyone points to propane as this miracle fuel that will store forever (it will) and will be very easy to find in an emergency situation.

I was relaying experiences from "Ground Zero" in Sandy where propane was just as hard to get as gasoline. Given that fewer places sell propane vs gasoline it may be harder to get due to limited supplies.

I think neither fuel is better than the other - you'll have everyone and their brother looking for gasoline for their cars and generators. You'll have everyone and their brother looking for propane for their barbecues and other gas appliances so shortages may be the norm.

One thing I've learned in life is - no matter how brilliant the idea, you're not the first to have it....


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:

I had no idea they sold dyed, untaxed gasoline. I thought they only did that with diesel.

Around here they sell off road diesel which doesn't have the road tax and it's about 50 cents less than regular on-road diesel. OF course it has the red dye so if you use it in your truck, the cops pull you over and dip your tank... thousands in fines.

Pull you over and "Dip" your tank? Wow the cops in NJ must have a lot of excess time on their hands to be able to pull over civilian diesel powered vehicles and check the fuel.

Gas at a marinas is not taxed here and if you buy taxed fuel for your boat just keep the receipts for a tax refund.