Topic 'Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel' in forum 'Home Improvement' - dslreports.com

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Tue, 13 Nov 2012 20:31:40 EDT

UHF posted : I've been thinking of doing this with my Honda EU2000i. I want to still have all the covers on it when it's running though.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:59:42 EDT

cdru posted :

said by ArgMeMatey:

Does anybody makes a rig that will run on diesel, NG, and propane?

Yes. However it's large enough to probably run a good portion of your neighborhood.

You probably aren't going to find residential or portable generators due to the differences between diesel and gasoline/NG/propane combustion engines.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:22:18 EDT

dosdoxies posted :

said by Red Green:

He has plumbed a few standby generators and he is making a parts list for me. He knows I pretty picky when it comes to home projects and repairs.

The REAL Red Green would use an old garden hose and some duct tape. :)
--
The more people I meet, the better I like my dogs.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Mon, 12 Nov 2012 21:58:10 EDT

Red Green posted : He has plumbed a few standby generators and he is making a parts list for me. He knows I pretty picky when it comes to home projects and repairs.
--
Don't let my reality hinder your imagination!

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Mon, 12 Nov 2012 21:42:26 EDT

jack b posted : Get full bore 1" ball valves, not the tapered-core gas cocks. Too much pressure drop in those.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Mon, 12 Nov 2012 21:39:19 EDT

Red Green posted : I worked out a deal with a plumber friend who will install the piping for $100.00 if I buy the stuff. I'm looking at about 20 to 25' of 1" pipe, two 90' elbows, one T fitting, and two valves. He has the tap and threading machine. We can T right above the meter in the basement, run about 8' to the corner, make the turn along the other wall about 12', then turn outside. This will place the gas outlet out of the way and close to my garage were I store and run the generator. So far most of the places that sell the conversion kits are back ordered. I guess from the storms and lack of gasoline, a lot of people are doing the same thing.
--
Don't let my reality hinder your imagination!

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Mon, 12 Nov 2012 11:07:07 EDT

fifty nine posted :

said by Jack_in_VA:

in 69 years I've never seen or heard of it here in VA. Now if it were happening it would be common knowledge wouldn't it? Heck with the budget cuts we have little checking on our pump accuracy much less what someone is running in their tanks.

I could also say that police don't check for speeding because I've never gotten a speeding ticket.

Dipping happens more at truck scales and more with commercial trucks. Some places can also determine if you were using red dyed diesel from examining your exhaust.

Now you tell me, why would they go through all the trouble of dyeing the diesel if they didn't at least enforce it sometimes?

Virginia seems to check:

»www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/citiz···esel.asp

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Sun, 11 Nov 2012 23:48:15 EDT

telco_mtl posted :

said by Jack_in_VA:

Gas at a marinas is not taxed here and if you buy taxed fuel for your boat just keep the receipts for a tax refund.

marina gas up here isnt taxed either but the marinas get you big time because you are captive so they charge more than retail gas stations

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Sun, 11 Nov 2012 20:59:42 EDT

Jack_in_VA posted : in 69 years I've never seen or heard of it here in VA. Now if it were happening it would be common knowledge wouldn't it? Heck with the budget cuts we have little checking on our pump accuracy much less what someone is running in their tanks.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Sun, 11 Nov 2012 20:48:56 EDT

fifty nine posted :

said by Jack_in_VA:

You didn't specify that you weren't referring to NJ. Anyway I've never heard of the cops "dipping" a tank for illegal fuel here.

Then as usual you're the exception rather than the rule.

They do dip and they do check, and they do fine people. Otherwise people would just use red dyed diesel in their vehicles.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Sun, 11 Nov 2012 19:36:26 EDT

Bob posted : I figured it was something like that.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Sun, 11 Nov 2012 17:30:20 EDT

nyrrule27 posted : haha..sorry working for vz and 12 hr days for over a week has my brain fried. 5 gallons of gas lasted aprox 15 hrs

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Sun, 11 Nov 2012 15:36:01 EDT

Bob posted :

said by nyrrule27:

running my renerator 15 hrs on gas... lasted me about 15 hrs.

Good to know that 15 hrs lasted 15 hrs. I'd hate if you went through a time warp and 15 hrs only lasted 14 hrs.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Sun, 11 Nov 2012 12:45:25 EDT

nyrrule27 posted : running my renerator 15 hrs on gas with min load (fridge, tv and blue ray, fish tank and 100 heat lamp for snake) lasted me about 15 hrs. if i had to guess it was prob less then 2000 watts on a 5000 watt generator. what kind of "gas mileage" would propane get

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 19:18:08 EDT

Jack_in_VA posted :

said by fifty nine:

said by Jack_in_VA:

said by fifty nine:

I had no idea they sold dyed, untaxed gasoline. I thought they only did that with diesel.

Around here they sell off road diesel which doesn't have the road tax and it's about 50 cents less than regular on-road diesel. OF course it has the red dye so if you use it in your truck, the cops pull you over and dip your tank... thousands in fines.

Pull you over and "Dip" your tank? Wow :o the cops in NJ must have a lot of excess time on their hands to be able to pull over civilian diesel powered vehicles and check the fuel.

Gas at a marinas is not taxed here and if you buy taxed fuel for your boat just keep the receipts for a tax refund.

It's not NJ. I've mostly heard this from people in the Midwest. I don't have a diesel vehicle.

You didn't specify that you weren't referring to NJ. Anyway I've never heard of the cops "dipping" a tank for illegal fuel here.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 19:14:33 EDT

fifty nine posted :

said by Jack_in_VA:

said by fifty nine:

It's not NJ. I've mostly heard this from people in the Midwest. I don't have a diesel vehicle.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 18:07:42 EDT

Bob posted :

said by itguy05:

I was relaying experiences from "Ground Zero" in Sandy where propane was just as hard to get as gasoline. Given that fewer places sell propane vs gasoline it may be harder to get due to limited supplies.

And even if you don't need electricity to dispense propane, if the propane station doesn't have electricity, the workers won't be there and the place will be closed.

nunya, my other response was to make sure someone doesn't get the not-very-bright idea to stock up on propane and store the tanks in the basement.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 17:43:57 EDT

ArgMeMatey posted : Does anybody makes a rig that will run on diesel, NG, and propane?

There are thousands of boilers out there that easily switch between fuel oil and NG, but I think most of those simply have separate burners in the same firebox. Not quite the same as a piston internal combustion engine.

Diesel seems pretty much unassailable, with more reliable long-term storage and lower volatility than gasoline, no worries about NG utility shutoffs, and less hazard than propane as well. But it's still more expensive than NG.
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Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 17:37:52 EDT

Jack_in_VA posted :

said by nunya:

Sorry, the last half of that post was not directed at you.

Jack, I've had the police check my fuel tank several times in Southern Illinois (farm country). If you refuse inspection, it's a $1,000 fine. If you get caught, it's a $1,000 fine the first time, as a misdemeanor tax evasion charge. Second time is a $5,000 fine and moves up to felony.
I've always had dyed fuel available, but never fell to the temptation.

I have never heard of that here in Virginia and I live in farm country and commercial fishing country. Our major infraction is the number of "Farm Vehicle" & "Waterman" wooden signs on vehicles you see everywhere. No body checks this abuse either.
I've never used it in my vehicles either but my next door neighbor who is/was in the landscaping business has his Diesel and Gasoline tanks.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 17:26:25 EDT

nunya posted : Sorry, the last half of that post was not directed at you.

Jack, I've had the police check my fuel tank several times in Southern Illinois (farm country). If you refuse inspection, it's a $1,000 fine. If you get caught, it's a $1,000 fine the first time, as a misdemeanor tax evasion charge. Second time is a $5,000 fine and moves up to felony.
I've always had dyed fuel available, but never fell to the temptation.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 17:17:12 EDT

bn1221 posted : Where do you like that petrol is 2.85 / gallon?

The *ethanol that they sell in the midwest is a lot lower power producing that standard E10 IIRC

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 17:09:55 EDT

alkizmo posted : So I heard you like backups.
So I put a backup house in your house's backup generator's backup generator.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 16:59:01 EDT

Jack_in_VA posted :

said by rjgogo:

said by cdru:

said by rjgogo:

I must be way below national average as I just paid about a dollar less than what you are quoting for propane.

Taken from the EIA website for Propane prices. That's residential price. Wholesale is $1/gallon. It's probably going to depend a lot on where you're at, how much you are buying, pricing contracts, etc. Even at a dollar less natural gas is still cheaper per equivalent unit of energy.

I just paid 1.38 delivered to my 500 gallon tank in IL. So that is a residential price. I don't have access to NG.

Called my supplier today. Price for 100 gal tank is $3.28/gal, alternate supplier Americagas $3.21/gal.

The last I heard those with 500 gal tanks were paying over $2/gal.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 16:57:26 EDT

Jack_in_VA posted :

said by fifty nine:

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 16:37:42 EDT

itguy05 posted : Nunya,

I wasn't trying to twist your words or anything like that.

I was simply pointing out that everyone points to propane as this miracle fuel that will store forever (it will) and will be very easy to find in an emergency situation.

I was relaying experiences from "Ground Zero" in Sandy where propane was just as hard to get as gasoline. Given that fewer places sell propane vs gasoline it may be harder to get due to limited supplies.

I think neither fuel is better than the other - you'll have everyone and their brother looking for gasoline for their cars and generators. You'll have everyone and their brother looking for propane for their barbecues and other gas appliances so shortages may be the norm.

One thing I've learned in life is - no matter how brilliant the idea, you're not the first to have it....

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 16:13:04 EDT

AVD posted :

said by nunya:

If you'll re-read my post, I was simply saying having OPTIONS is the benefit of tri-fuel. I wasn't picking any winners.

precisely
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Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 16:08:04 EDT

AVD posted :

said by SwedishRider:

said by alkizmo:

said by SwedishRider:

Your NG setup would be similar to my propane setup, and trust me... it'll be awesome to have virtually limitless fuel right on site when you need it.

meh I wish I could do it too. Then again, so far I don't see the NG line upgrade cost amortize itself vs. price of fuel anytime soon :p

This is a situation where return on investment can't be measured purely in monetary value. You may not realize that return in lower fuel costs.... but ask those folks down in NY and Jersey about cost and they'd tell you they don't care about price per gallon of gasoline, they can't buy any gallons of it to save their souls and keep warm in these freezing temperatures. Their generator setups are worthless without fuel to run them. Nobody could have predicted that their setups would not yield the intended result, but in their case... it happened. How many of them would have gladly spent the money for a NG or propane hookup if available to them to do so... my guess is quite a few. And this could go on for weeks more for them.. :(

Sometimes you spend money knowing you may never get a monetary return on it, but use trumps return... and IMHO, this is one of those cases. I'd rather have my propane setup over a pure gasoline setup when the you-know-what hits the fan.

you nedd a bcak up to the back up and a backup to the backup backup.
--
* seek help if having trouble coping
--Standard disclaimers apply.--

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 16:04:02 EDT

AVD posted :

said by robbin:

said by alkizmo:

said by SwedishRider:

Your NG setup would be similar to my propane setup, and trust me... it'll be awesome to have virtually limitless fuel right on site when you need it.

meh I wish I could do it too. Then again, so far I don't see the NG line upgrade cost amortize itself vs. price of fuel anytime soon :p

I'm curious -- how do you quantify this? If you look at what happened after Sandy, the actual cost of fuel after a disaster appears to be the smallest part of the equation.

this this this this this this this
--
* seek help if having trouble coping
--Standard disclaimers apply.--

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 15:47:27 EDT

SwedishRider posted :

said by nunya:

First of all, I never said storing gasoline is dangerous. Although it can be. It's inconvenient if you don't have a way to cycle it through (most people have cars or lawn mowers).
Storing propane isn't nearly as dangerous as what people here are making it out to be. I'd be far more comfortable storing propane vs. gasoline though. Propane tanks are pretty well built. Just follow the rules.

If you'll re-read my post, I was simply saying having OPTIONS is the benefit of tri-fuel. I wasn't picking any winners.

There are people on this site, and in this particular forum, who will twist my words to try and post anything they can to appear counter to me. I swear to god, if I were to put up a one word post that said "Black", withing minutes there would be a 5 paragraph dissertation screaming "white" and extolling the negative virtues of the word black.

Well, I'll agree with your position on this one nunya. As I said before, my only concern would be vapor lock on a smaller tank, but barring that, propane makes a lot of sense for this application.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 15:15:43 EDT

fifty nine posted :

said by telco_mtl:

said by fifty nine:

its like that up here too, they have colored unleaded at the co-op that can also be delivered to farms.

Are you in Canada?

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 14:09:11 EDT

garys_2k posted :

said by nunya:

If you'll re-read my post, I was simply saying having OPTIONS is the benefit of tri-fuel. I wasn't picking any winners.

True enough, it's about having OPTIONS, each person can pick the best choice for themselves. I'm likely going to buy a tri-fuel kit for my portable generator just because I'd like to have the flexibility.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 13:53:24 EDT

nunya posted : First of all, I never said storing gasoline is dangerous. Although it can be. It's inconvenient if you don't have a way to cycle it through (most people have cars or lawn mowers).
Storing propane isn't nearly as dangerous as what people here are making it out to be. I'd be far more comfortable storing propane vs. gasoline though. Propane tanks are pretty well built. Just follow the rules.

If you'll re-read my post, I was simply saying having OPTIONS is the benefit of tri-fuel. I wasn't picking any winners.

There are people on this site, and in this particular forum, who will twist my words to try and post anything they can to appear counter to me. I swear to god, if I were to put up a one word post that said "Black", withing minutes there would be a 5 paragraph dissertation screaming "white" and extolling the negative virtues of the word black.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 12:47:47 EDT

telco_mtl posted :

said by fifty nine:

its like that up here too, they have colored unleaded at the co-op that can also be delivered to farms.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 12:34:45 EDT

itguy05 posted :

said by Bob:

The propane is a lot more dangerous.

True. I park almost 40 gallons of gasoline inside daily. 19 gallons in my car and 16 in the wife's.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 12:32:59 EDT

Bob posted : The propane is a lot more dangerous.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 12:27:38 EDT

itguy05 posted :

said by nunya:

On to propane. Propane stores well. It doesn't go bad. Even in a power outage, it can still be dispensed (in many cases). There isn't quite the demand of gasoline (every swinging dick with a set of keys is looking for gasoline).

From talking with friends in N. Jersey, propane was equally hard to get. Most places that had the exchanges were out quickly as everyone was getting them for their grills and such. Those places that refilled had lines too.

Also, I can't remember a time that I filled up a propane tank where they didn't have some sort of electric motor to help the liquid along. Not sure if it would work if that was out.

I thnk storing 100-200+ lbs of propane is just as dangerous as 50 gallons of gas. Rotating gas is simple since every car that runs on gasoline can use it. :)

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 12:20:41 EDT

nunya posted : The off-road gasoline form FS is dyed red, just like the diesel.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 12:18:18 EDT

Aranarth posted :

said by fifty nine:

I had no idea they sold dyed, untaxed gasoline. I thought they only did that with diesel.

This might be unique to MI.
I could also be confused that it is both when it is only one since I don't pay the bill.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 12:14:01 EDT

rjgogo posted :

said by cdru:

said by rjgogo:

I must be way below national average as I just paid about a dollar less than what you are quoting for propane.

I just paid 1.38 delivered to my 500 gallon tank in IL. So that is a residential price. I don't have access to NG.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 12:09:08 EDT

fifty nine posted : I had no idea they sold dyed, untaxed gasoline. I thought they only did that with diesel.

Around here they sell off road diesel which doesn't have the road tax and it's about 50 cents less than regular on-road diesel. OF course it has the red dye so if you use it in your truck, the cops pull you over and dip your tank... thousands in fines.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 11:51:13 EDT

Aranarth posted : You know 50 gallon oil barrels are dead easy to find and store gasoline just fine for you and you can find standard hand pumps for oil/gas that fit into the larger screw cap. Junk yards almost always have them on hand. If you are going to hoard gasoline go that way.

If you need larger amount you can also find 250gal tanks with hand pump specific for storing diesel and gas fuels.

Since I'm classified as a farm (equine and large animal) I can get gas at a discount. I've forgotten what the exact discount is for farm use since the tanks are filled by my in-laws who also run their own farming operation. If I remember correctly, part of the discount is wholesale price and reduced taxes since we are not driving on the road.

The biggest rule is the fuel can only be used for farm operations and equipment and a dye is added to keep you honest. We buy regular gas for our vehicles. We used to have a farm truck which was an old beat up 1/2 ton and that was the only vehicle that could use the fuel. (It never went on the main road and was only driven on dirt road and two tracks.)

If you run a hobby farm for profit or larger this is also an option.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 11:33:05 EDT

alkizmo posted : Kit 4 from the link (second post, from me!) would do.
Just because they say kit C is easier to install than kit 4 doesn't mean it's actually HARD.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 11:24:53 EDT

Red Green posted : Luckily my gas meter in the basement is close to the wall where I can run the pipe to the outside for the connector, which is near my garage where I store and run my generator, so the cost to have the gas plumbed would not be that much. I would only need about a 30' hose from the outside disconnect to the where I run the generator. The main problem is choosing which kit to use. The Honda is 13 Hp, so I need to find an easy to install kit made for this engine that works well.
--
Don't let my reality hinder your imagination!

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 11:23:52 EDT

fifty nine posted :

said by alkizmo:

said by Bob:

I heard that gas cans were sold out as far away as Albany.

So the cheap way to live off gasoline for extended outages is: Buy large (or many) gasoline containers and fill them up when there's a chance things will go bad. If things don't go bad, use it up on the cars.

5 Gallon tanks are like 10$ each.
Buy 10, you have 50 gallons! That's almost 10 days if you ration.
They'd fit easily in a minivan.

I keep 4 cans. That's enough to last me over a week if I run the generator with limited service. I also keep the generator topped up with stabilized fuel, refilling with fresh fuel every time I do its exercise.

I'll probably buy 2-3 more cans.

I store the gas in a shed away from the house.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 11:23:39 EDT

cdru posted :

said by rjgogo:

I must be way below national average as I just paid about a dollar less than what you are quoting for propane.

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 11:17:46 EDT

alkizmo posted :

said by Bob:

That would guarantee the power would stay on. ;)

Until you give it/share it all away to those in need, then suddenly a second snow storm appears and then need it :p

Lesson: Hoard gasoline!

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 11:15:40 EDT

Bob posted :

said by alkizmo:

said by Bob:

That is certainly one strategy.

It's at odds with Murphy's Law, however.

20 x 5 gallon cans!

That would guarantee the power would stay on. ;)

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 11:12:19 EDT

cowboyro posted :

said by Bob:

said by cowboyro:

But I'd be damned if I can understand those people in NY waiting 6hrs in line for $25 worth of gas when they could have found plenty of gas with a 1hr drive.

Maybe they didn't have enough gas to drive an hour.

Get gas, drive 1hr, get more gas...

said by Bob:

said by cowboyro:

Worst case scenario you can drive 1-2hrs to an unaffected area, buy a bunch of cans and fill them...

I heard that gas cans were sold out as far away as Albany.

They weren't sold out in CT. Gas stations, Home Depot, Lowes had a bunch of them. I am 1hr away from NYC (make it 1:30 with some traffic).

Re: Convert from gasoline to tri-fuel

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 10:59:09 EDT

alkizmo posted :

said by Bob:

That is certainly one strategy.

It's at odds with Murphy's Law, however.

20 x 5 gallon cans!

I do admit though, that if my generator shed was close enough to the house, I'd plan on going NG.

So I had to sacrifice the convenience of NG to gain the convenience of running a generator in a locked, secured, discrete, weatherproof location.

A stolen generator is no generator :p (Yes people would steal a NG generator).