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Boricua
Premium
join:2002-01-26
Sacramuerto

2 recommendations

[WIN8] Windows 8 - best to pass it up: review Read more: http:/

I've made a lot of computer blunders over the years. The biggest was taking a perfectly well-functioning Sony Vaio and upgrading it from Windows XP to Windows Vista, which left it so crash-prone as to be all but useless.

So please believe me when I offer this word of advice on installing Microsoft's shiny new Windows 8 operating system:

Don't.

Read more: »www.sfgate.com/technology/articl···Bq7MvIev
--
Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian. Robert Orben



thewolfman

join:2003-04-03
Niagara Falls, NY

Re: [WIN8] Windows 8 - best to pass it up: review Read more: ht

One person's opinion. I have Win 8 Pro., do I love it, not yet.

I have not had a single issue with it crashing though. XP and Vista, how many years ago were they? A lot has changed in OS's since then.
--
Live and learn........



darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS

1 recommendation

Not only that, but I run Vista x86 as my primary HTPC (PVR, downloads, remote streaming, etc) on a mere 3GB and the box just rocks. I only reboot as needed for updates, otherwise, that monster is up 7x24, zero issues. I think Vista got a bad rap early on but for me at least, it has proven to be a worthy OS.
--
♬ Music is life ♬



RazzyW8

@rr.com
reply to Boricua

So the dude is bitching about his faulty upgrade? Sorry - all OS will have problems with upgrading. Crappy useless article.



Kramer
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
kudos:2

I don't think it is crappy and useless and I especially agree with the sentiment expressed that most people don't need to upgrade from Windows 7. That said, I think the author leaves out a lot of positives about Windows 8 including the new features, so basically the article is useless for anyone whose skills go beyond the casual user level. For a casual user, I would agree though that upgrading a perfectly healthy Windows 7 system may not be in their best interest.



RazzyW8

@rr.com

Yep I agree that upgrading from Windows XP/Vista/7 to Windows 8 aren't in their best interest. I do not (never did in my entire 15 years of repairing computers) recommend upgrading any OS to newer version. Only a clean install works best. It's the best way of enjoying the new OS.

But most of his article is focused on his upgrade problems and it shouldn't be portray "Windows 8 is bad".

Using Windows 8 is exactly the same method as using Windows 7. You move mouse to lower left corner in Windows 8, just like Windows 7. You click, start screen shows up, just like Windows 7's start menu. You click a desktop application on start screen, to run the application, just like Windows 7. Only different is the start screen vs start menu. And I understand the "shock" of it.

It's the perception of "throwing to metro-land" and "throwing back to desktop land". Yes it's shocking at first but now I'm used to it, it's nothing. It's the perception that you MUST use Windows 8 Apps on Windows 8 when you can use your old Windows software that you used on Windows 7 on Windows 8 perfectly fine.



howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

1 edit
reply to Boricua

quote:
But most of his article is focused on his upgrade problems and it shouldn't be portray "Windows 8 is bad".
Only in part. The bottom of the article dislikes Windows 8 in general.

KoRnGtL15
Premium
join:2007-01-04
Grants Pass, OR
kudos:1
reply to Boricua

Plain and simple. If anyone has 7. No rush for 8 atm. Give it 6 months to a year and see what happens. No surprise with install problem with that particular HP machine. If you had read HP stance on older machines. Any pc purchased between Oct. 1 2011 and after. They will offer driver support. You was sol from the start. I have a newer Phoenix from them bought in Feb. 2012. It came with 7. I upgraded to 8 in 10-15 minutes with HP drivers installed. My system came with a ssd. I have had zero trouble with 8 crashing or running. It runs smooth, and faster then 7. Same with boot times. And that is with disabling the cheat system they use for booting in 8. I use high performance power plan. And deleted the hibernation file.



Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
reply to Boricua

One should always be careful about electing to upgrade to a major, new (in terms of functionality or UI) OS on a system that is several years old or more. Over the years, I've found the most consistently surest, safest path is to migrate to a new OS when moving to a completely brand-new system. Certainly those who are skilled in wringing out bugs or are expert with the ins and outs of a new OS and its installation/tweaking can upgrade an OS successfully - but it's all too often not to be entered into lightly by folks with lesser skills. The older your system hardware, protocols, and drivers, the more likely you'll come to regret a major OS upgrade decision...
--
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville



RazzyW8

@rr.com
reply to howardfine

said by howardfine:

quote:
But most of his article is focused on his upgrade problems and it shouldn't be portray "Windows 8 is bad".
Only in part. The bottom of the article dislikes Windows 8 in general.

Vaguely......

Kerodo

join:2004-05-08
reply to Blackbird

said by Blackbird:

One should always be careful about electing to upgrade to a major, new (in terms of functionality or UI) OS on a system that is several years old or more. Over the years, I've found the most consistently surest, safest path is to migrate to a new OS when moving to a completely brand-new system. Certainly those who are skilled in wringing out bugs or are expert with the ins and outs of a new OS and its installation/tweaking can upgrade an OS successfully - but it's all too often not to be entered into lightly by folks with lesser skills. The older your system hardware, protocols, and drivers, the more likely you'll come to regret a major OS upgrade decision...

One nice thing about the release preview is that it allowed people to test and play with things and see how it works out before actually having to commit to buying it. I used both pre-releases myself and so had a pretty good idea that everything would work out fine if indeed I decided to buy 8 when it was released. The preview is a very nice thing to have....


howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO
reply to RazzyW8

Vaguely? How about almost half the article starting with the title "Touch Screens"?

1) it's clear the interface is really for users with touch-screens.

2) the millions of individuals and businesses with older, mouse-driven systems - and even many with laptops that have a touch pad but no touch-screen - may find themselves needing to memorize keyboard shortcuts for many common tasks, a throwback to earlier days of computing.

3) While there's still a Windows 7-like desktop, it's been demoted

4) it's clumsy for users of more traditional PCs, who will have to learn just where to move the cursor on the screen to bring up the charms.

5) there's no option to boot directly into the desktop environment, or restore the Start menu. And, adding to the sense of confusion, Windows 8 has two separate versions of the Internet Explorer web browser

6) if you don't already have something close to the latest and greatest PC and you're reasonably happy with Windows 7, my guidance is simple:
Skip it.

How is this "vague"?



sivran
Seamonkey's back
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1
reply to RazzyW8

Speaking of that lower left corner... any way to change that in the release version? I've moved the taskbar up to the top ever since Win95...

Also, yeah, upgrading to 8 to take advantage of the $40 upgrade offer. For sure. XP's age really hit home today--can't use all of my 3TB drive.
--
Think Outside the Fox.



digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2
reply to Boricua

Click for full size
Refusing to consider an upgrade to Win8 from Win7 because of an experience with Vista is illogical, the exception is not the rule.

Most casual users get a new OS when they buy a new PC, and wouldn't be comfortable executing an upgrade from Win7 anyway, so they'll all get Win8 or its successor at some point. The tiled interface isn't going away, any more than tablets are. Integrated and uniform OSs are the future, MS is simply ahead of the curve.

Also, most casual users don't use the Start menu, almost all app access is from desktop icons or browser links. All desktop icons and a few system links are viewable in a Win7 Start Menu style interface by adding the desktop toolbar to the taskbar in Win8, and/or right clicking the mini Start screen in the bottom left corner of the desktop (or the Start screen if Desktop is not running).

BTW I've just gone back to IE as the default browser after a few years with Chrome. Both the desktop and Start screen versions of IE10 load faster than Chrome and render pages faster too. Plus those IE10 optimized sites like msn.com are far easier on the eyes than what you get with IE9 or other browsers.


howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

1 edit

said by digitalfutur:

BTW I've just gone back to IE as the default browser after a few years with Chrome. Both the desktop and Start screen versions of IE10 load faster than Chrome and render pages faster too.

But it cannot render pages created with current modern standards and practices like any other browser can. »html5test.com/compare/browser/ie···e22.html

In addition, while the other browsers get upgraded every 6-8 weeks, IE10 will receive no technical upgrades for at least a year.
quote:
Plus those IE10 optimized sites like msn.com are far easier on the eyes than what you get with IE9 or other browsers.

If MSN.com is being built to work better with IE10 than any other browser, that flies in the face of what they are saying and is detrimental to half the world that doesn't use IE and even fewer who use IE10.


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3

said by howardfine:

If MSN.com is being built to work better with IE10 than any other browser, that flies in the face of what they are saying and is detrimental to half the world that doesn't use IE and even fewer who use IE10.

I agree. If you are designing a web page, would it not be a good idea to make the page viewable by as many people as possible, and not code it to only run on a specific browser?

However, in the case of MSN, I think there is actually 2 versions.

I'm on Windows 7 now, and when I go to www.msn.com, its just like it used to be (no tile interface). However, when I had Windows 8 running, the URL that was being used by IE10 (both in desktop mode, and in Metro) was something different. I don't remember exactly, but I thought I saw a T in the URL somewhere (T indicating tablet, or tabs).

If you happen to have that URL, what happens if you go there in a non IE10 browser? Like in IE9 running on Windows 7, or Firefox/Waterfox/Palemoon on Windows 7?

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
reply to Boricua

Rich Jaroslovsky - guy loves Apple. Loved the mini.

Anyway, yeah, for an old, non-touch PC, the upgrade to 8 from 7 has, um, about $40 of value. Like going from Lion to Mtn Lion on a Mac.

No reason to NOT do it, but limited value over anything with touch.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us



RazzyW8

@rr.com
reply to howardfine

said by howardfine:

Vaguely? How about almost half the article starting with the title "Touch Screens"?

1) it's clear the interface is really for users with touch-screens.

2) the millions of individuals and businesses with older, mouse-driven systems - and even many with laptops that have a touch pad but no touch-screen - may find themselves needing to memorize keyboard shortcuts for many common tasks, a throwback to earlier days of computing.

3) While there's still a Windows 7-like desktop, it's been demoted

4) it's clumsy for users of more traditional PCs, who will have to learn just where to move the cursor on the screen to bring up the charms.

5) there's no option to boot directly into the desktop environment, or restore the Start menu. And, adding to the sense of confusion, Windows 8 has two separate versions of the Internet Explorer web browser

6) if you don't already have something close to the latest and greatest PC and you're reasonably happy with Windows 7, my guidance is simple:
Skip it.

How is this "vague"?

1) Interface works fine with keyboard/mouse.

2) No they won't. All of them wants to click an icon on the desktop or taskbar. They can just hit WIN key to bring up the start screen. It's not hard. Seriously.

3) No it hasn't. Desktop works BETTER in Windows 8 than Windows 7.

4) Using the little start menu is clunky to me. Only time I use the charm is when I want to shutdown/restart the computer and it's really rare when I want to do that. Or the metro apps setting that I rarely use on my desktop.

5) Who cares? JUST CLICK THE DESKTOP TILE!

6) I upgraded an 80 year old grandpa's Windows 7 laptop to 8. He loves it. Of course I trained him how to use it, he was frustrated with Windows 7 and have no idea how to work the start menu.

7) You heard all these complaints elsewhere - these complaints are vague in that article.


howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

All you're doing now is disagreeing with the article. Before you said the article was about upgrade problems and only vaguely about this and that's not true.



csiemers

join:2000-09-16
Portland, OR
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Boricua

I've played a little bit with Window 8 as a guest on my main Windows 7 desktop. It was ok, but just not my cup of tea.

So I thought, why not install it on an old desktop that I keep in my TV room? Well, downloaded the upgrade adviser and it told me it wouldn't install as my CPU isn't up to snuff on that PC.

So for now, in my house, no Windows 8. I'm sure if I was to build a new computer or buy a laptop I'd make sure it had Windows 8 and a touch screen. Though I just can't see myself stretching across my desk to reach the screen to make selections. Seems so inefficient. On a laptop probably a little better. Of course on a tablet it would be best of all.

Cest la vie.
--
»www.caryontech.com


SipSizzurp
Fo' Shizzle
Premium
join:2005-12-28
Houston, TX
kudos:4

1 recommendation

reply to Boricua

I've recently spent several hours with 8 on a new build. After installing classic shell I'm a complete fanboi of 8. It runs my 16 Bit executable correctly where W7 would choke and hang. Metro has a lot of stuff to explore, but classic shell boots right to desktop and for all practical purposes everything is the same as W7. All software and utilities are functional. It is much faster. Shutdown is 1.5 seconds, boot is 5 seconds. ( I5 CPU @ 3.4 Ghz, 16 GB RAM, raid 0 SSD ). I LOVE W8 and will now be skipping 7. IE10 is fantastic.



digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2
reply to howardfine

Optimizing for IE 10 (technically optimizing for Windows 8) is no different than optimizing for mobile (phablet). If other browsers are fully compatible with Windows 8, and they'll need to be to maintain market share, they'll display the optimized pages in a similar way.

The point is that Windows 8 is going to put an end to those cluttered webpages with tiny pictures and a million links on the main page, instead of a few section links that you drill down deeper if you need to, by swiping or clicking.

USA today is another site that's cleaned up its main page Windows 8 style,.

»www.usatoday.com/
--
Logic requires one to deal with decisions that one's ego will not permit.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke.



Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to Boricua

So I read it,...

I think he clearly commented on something he had no experience with when referring to Windows 8 on touch devices. When writing I think its best to stick with what you know and his suppositions in this respect call into question his credibility fairly early on IMO. I’ve used Windows 8 on more then one kind of touch enabled computer as well as with non-touch enabled computers and I don’t honestly think he knows what he is talking about in this respect.

I also used Vista quite extensively with no noteworthy issues for my usage model. I can guess why its been vilified by many but I certainly don’t agree with the general consensus.

Anyway, I would also like to make it clear that stating that the interface (Metro or New Windows UI) was designed for touch screens specifically (assuming its 100% true) isn't a pro or a con. People will have conflicting viewpoints based on their hardware or their intended use so it isn’t an absolute truth one way or the other. I say this because I am not staunchly entrenched in the use of touch or the traditional input devices with exclusivity.



howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

2 edits
reply to digitalfutur

said by digitalfutur:

If other browsers are fully compatible with Windows 8, and they'll need to be to maintain market share, they'll display the optimized pages in a similar way.

No browser optimizes itself to any operating system. The W3C is the only spec a browser follows. In fact, the current movement is to responsive design where the device itself is all but ignored.
quote:
The point is that Windows 8 is going to put an end to those cluttered webpages with tiny pictures and a million links on the main page

Windows never had anything to do with that. Such designs have been out of favor for years. The USAToday site you point to is only a javascript slider which we've been using for a long time and you can even get a canned version of the same thing.

computerman2
Premium
join:2002-04-20
Rockwood, MI
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
·AT&T Midwest

1 edit

Did an Upgrade Install of WIndows 8 to start with, eventually will do a fresh clean install of Windows 8, but NO Problems, Performance is Excellent, All programs work great

Very Happy with Windows 8 Pro with Media Center
Start Screen does not bother me

Came from Windows 7 64bit
been using it daily since the 26th, Not a single issue with crashing or problems at all, Very Fluid Response, Start screen is not a problem, hot corners easily accessible with a mouse just fine. Built in Windows Defender working great for protection, if I should decide to switch back to Avast when Avast 8.0 comes out and it's stable, then I may do clean install then, but for now happy

Does anyone else with WIndows 8 Media Center have Internet TV or ability to burn Cd/dvd's right from Media Center--mine is missing those options



plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3

said by computerman2:

Does anyone else with WIndows 8 Media Center have Internet TV or ability to burn Cd/dvd's right from Media Center--mine is missing those options

I know for Windows 7, Internet TV went away back on Sept 20th. I would think the same would be true in Windows 8.

See this thread for more info

»[WIN7] September 20th Internet TV in WMC ceases

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4

Brian is correct, Internet TV is not longer available with any version of Windows Media Center.
--
♬ Music is life ♬


computerman2
Premium
join:2002-04-20
Rockwood, MI

Oh ok thank you both



Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to computerman2

I forgot when Media Center lost some specific features. However, even when you could burn disc of recorded TV easily it could only be done with mpeg not H.264 / AVCHD based recordings.

Many of my recordings are H.264 / AVCHD and are DRM free.


computerman2
Premium
join:2002-04-20
Rockwood, MI

Not sure at this point and time when I may do a clean install of WIndows 8 in the future, Debating as well if I need HP Recovery Paritiion anymore as well.

Otherwise running great even if was in-place upgrade for now