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dib22

join:2002-01-27
Kansas City, MO
reply to sancraig

Re: cement experts - does this look right?

said by sancraig:

If it were my house I would rather them patch this 2'x2' area than cut it out and re-pour it with a seam. I think everybody is very optimistic thinking its all going to be re-poured cause of a 2x2 area.

That area is the only big area... and the 'access portal' edges which is right near the bad corner... there is 1 pier that looks like this as well, I'll attach that here:




Other than the corner and that pier it generally looks pretty good.

Got any expert advise on how to seal up that re-bar? Some magic mix that will make it all good again?

nonymous
Premium
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ
reply to sancraig

said by sancraig:

Yes, if they poured an entire homes foundation, and this was the the only issue he should count himself lucky.

Not to say he should accept this but there are much worse pours than that. Could of had a cold joint, could have been much worse.

Hell seen worse on bridge abutments, guess what they did? They patched it.

If it were my house I would rather them patch this 2'x2' area than cut it out and re-pour it with a seam. I think everybody is very optimistic thinking its all going to be re-poured cause of a 2x2 area.

Op please let us know what becomes of this.

Thanks

Repair the fault area if all else ia ok. Make me feel bad about driving over a bridge.


PoloDude
Premium,VIP
join:2006-03-29
Northport, NY
kudos:3

2 recommendations

reply to dib22

Holy crap that's a support pier!? Where's the cement? I wouldn't mount anything on that.



jrs8084
Premium
join:2002-03-02
Statesville, NC
kudos:1
reply to dib22

Well, I guess that is a splendid example of stratification.



Raphion

join:2000-10-14
Samsara
reply to dib22

Just to throw in my agreement with the others here, you might as well use sandstone as your foundation as that. Kinda looks like the concrete was already nearly set when they poured it?


boaterbob
Premium
join:2005-08-01
Moncks Corner, SC

If after all is said and done - and nothing is done to properly make things right - ask the contractor to sign a letter you write saying something like - "I have reviewed the areas of concern in the concrete poured at on and find the concrete to be sufficient quality and structural strength to properly support the planned house ....."

The idea is to make the contractor put in writing (you write, he signs the letter) that he acknowledges that the job is proper and that he says there will be no problem!

When he see the letter he may decide that maybe you are correct and the work should be done over (or corrected properly) rather than him putting his signature on the letter and be liable for any future problems.

Have him sign something!!



cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7

1 recommendation

said by boaterbob:

...
Have him sign something!!

That signature will bring a lot of comfort when the deck collapses and someone is injured when the pier crumbles. Or when a portion of the house is destroyed because the foundation just fell apart.

The foundation might be able to be fixed. The pier needs to be removed and completely redone. There is no way that it can be fixed and still have any strength close to what it was originally designed for. And even if I had to pay for it with my own dime, I'd be having my own inspection done over the entire pour. There's no telling what else is hidden just under the surface that you can't see.


ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
reply to dib22

said by dib22:

A friend is having a house built and they poured the foundation walls and in a few spots they look like this...

[att=1]

[att=2]

Should these be re-done? I have the feeling they should but haven't said anything until I get some expert inputs... any ideas?

Not only that, but by the time it does fail and the contractor has closed that particular company name up and moved on to a new name, there will be no legal recourse.


Draiman
Let me see those devil horns in the sky

join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

reply to dib22

Click for full size
I just had foundation work done myself. Here's what it should look like.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

1 recommendation

reply to dib22

said by dib22:

My understanding is that you want a nice solid sealed stem wall no matter what, but this house will be bricked... could they be counting on the brick to protect this section?

Are the sections we're looking at above or below grade?
If above grade, how much further up do they extend?

If this is above grade and there is only a couple of feet to the top of the pour, I'd still get it inspected, but for above grade it'll probably just be patched.

For patching, make sure that the existing concrete is thoroughly wetted with an acrylic bonding agent and then I'd probably use a non-shrink grout to fill the gaps.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

2 recommendations

reply to Draiman

said by Draiman:

I just had foundation work done myself. Here's what it should look like.

When I was a kid, I got to witness the construction of some 50 houses over 2-3 years. I'd go visit the houses in mid-construction when the workers finished their shifts, or on weekends (no construction going on).

YET, up until the age of 27, I never knew concrete had gravel inside. That's just to say I never ever saw any foundation pour that showed gravel over the something 50 houses visited.


linicx
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2002-12-03
United State
Reviews:
·TracFone Wireless
·CenturyLink
reply to dib22

I don't know where you live, but in the good old days to keep basement walls dry, the entire outside surface of the basement walls from Sill to below the basement floor was plastered and covered in tar and then a french drain was installed .
--
Mac: No windows, No Gates, Apple inside



cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7

said by linicx:

I don't know where you live, but in the good old days to keep basement walls dry, the entire outside surface of the basement walls from Sill to below the basement floor was plastered and covered in tar and then a french drain was installed .

We must be old fashioned here as that's still how they do it here.


mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to dib22



That pier is a friggin joke! How in the hell you can manage to pour pure gravel into a form and think it is OK is insane. There's nothing there for concrete at all! I do not believe for one second that *any* of that work is acceptable anywhere on the site. You can't have that big of a mess in just a couple of places when it looks like that.


sancraig

join:2003-11-05
Saint Louis, MO

1 recommendation

reply to dib22

There are multiple products that can be used for this application most have a higher structural strength than the concrete.

EMACO® S66 CI

ZERO-C® Vertical/Overhead Mortar

EMACO® R300 CI

Gel Patch

»www.buildingsystems.basf.com/p02···pair.pdf


themagicone

join:2003-08-13
Osseo, MN
reply to dib22

I'd take pictures, tons of them. If the city is in the contractors pocket and the contractor won't do anything - I'd get out the sledge hammer. They'd have to fix it after I got done. When they asked me to pay I'd show the pictures... No court would be in their favor showing the poor work they wouldn't fix.


kherr
Premium
join:2000-09-04
Collinsville, IL
Reviews:
·Charter

If the inspector passes it, I'd get someone that is licensed to inspect it. After they fail it have a detailed report made and give it to the inspector/contractor then ask if they still are sure it's not flawed. It'd probably be easier to go after the city than contractor because when pushed into a corner and not having proper credentials he'll back down and fail it.


Tig

join:2006-06-29
Carrying Place, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms

4 edits

1 recommendation

reply to dib22

Mention to the inspector that you have concerns and are going to consult a civil engineer. His word trumps the inspector. Don't be antagonistic or confrontational. Also follow up with the general contractor to let him know the plan. Insist that your guy be allowed to inspect the foundation before any repair/cover work up us done. Other wise they may just patch, parge and run.
I've had a difference of opinion with an inspector a couple times and in both cases they suggested consulting an engineer so that I could have it my way. I've paid $75 and $140 for an engineer,s stamped letter. It's a pain, but it's much cheaper than lawyers.
Also, once the framing starts check the level on the corner in the first pic. That's quite a flare to the top of the foundation.



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

said by Tig:

Mention to the inspector that you have concerns and are going to consult a civil engineer. His word trumps the inspector. Don't be antagonistic or confrontational. Also follow up with the general contractor to let him know the plan. Insist that your guy be allowed to inspect the foundation before any repair/cover work up us done. Other wise they may just patch, parge and run.
I've had a difference of opinion with an inspector a couple times and in both cases they suggested consulting an engineer so that I could have it my way. I've paid $75 and $140 for an engineer,s stamped letter. It's a pain, but it's much cheaper than lawyers.
Also, once the framing starts check the level on the corner in the first pic. That's quite a flare to the top of the foundation.

I'm sure if you make the inspector look bad you better not have the least thing in your construction not completely up to code. Payback is no fun if you're on the receiving end. People on here can talk tough. After all they (we) are anonymous and will suffer no consequences.

IMO the best thing for the OP is to wait for the inspection and go from there if he has to. I'm sure there are many certified experts that will gladly assist him if needed.

Tig

join:2006-06-29
Carrying Place, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms

1 edit

Jack, it's not about making the inspector look bad. Quite the opposite, It's about peace of mind. The engineer will prescribe a sound solution and that takes the burden off the inspector.
Besides, the OP asked for expert input. Civil engineer is at the top of that food chain.



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

1 recommendation

said by Tig:

Jack, it's not about making the inspector look bad. Quite the opposite, It's about peace of mind. The engineer will prescribe a sound solution and that takes the burden off the inspector.
Besides, the OP asked for expert input. Civil engineer is at the top of that food chain.

Evidently you've never encountered a vindictive inspector have you? He/she can make your life pure hell from that minute on. A "sound solution" by someone that counters the inspectors determination does not take any burden off the inspector. More like puts a chip on his shoulder.

Give the inspector a chance. Good grief he/she has not even inspected it yet.


stevek1949
We're not in Kansas anymore
Premium
join:2002-11-13
Virginia Beach, VA

^ That!



Rambo76098

join:2003-02-21
Columbus, OH
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
reply to dib22

Holy snot, that's not concrete, that's gravel with glue drizzled on. I used to be in construction administration and we would never accepted that. Contractor would be demo'ing the whole thing and starting over, or, if we were really pissed, paying for another contractor to re-do.

I'd love to see some core samples... they'd probably have to use a vacuum to get the whole core out lol.


Beezel

join:2008-12-15
Las Vegas, NV
reply to Jack_in_VA

said by Jack_in_VA:

I'm sure if you make the inspector look bad you better not have the least thing in your construction not completely up to code. Payback is no fun if you're on the receiving end. People on here can talk tough. After all they (we) are anonymous and will suffer no consequences.

IMO the best thing for the OP is to wait for the inspection and go from there if he has to. I'm sure there are many certified experts that will gladly assist him if needed.

If the construction was new and not code compliant (per ticked off inspector), would that fall on the contractor's shoulders and not the home owner?


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

said by Beezel:

said by Jack_in_VA:

I'm sure if you make the inspector look bad you better not have the least thing in your construction not completely up to code. Payback is no fun if you're on the receiving end. People on here can talk tough. After all they (we) are anonymous and will suffer no consequences.

IMO the best thing for the OP is to wait for the inspection and go from there if he has to. I'm sure there are many certified experts that will gladly assist him if needed.

If the construction was new and not code compliant (per ticked off inspector), would that fall on the contractor's shoulders and not the home owner?

Most definitely but in the end the contractor is working for the customer and if the contractor has problems with the AHJ's then the customer will suffer. I can tell you that if you aggravate an inspector too much you better be ready.

kherr
Premium
join:2000-09-04
Collinsville, IL
Reviews:
·Charter
reply to Jack_in_VA

]
Been there done that. We used to have problems with the plumbing inspector in this one town. He would make shit up just to fail inspections. Being Illinois, we have fairly strict state codes. A city/county may made additional requirements as long as it makes the code more restrictive than state, but you must have an ordinance to do so. The plumbers would play the game but when it would get out of hand a plumber would call his bluff. The inspector and plumber would go to Springfield and present their cases to the Department of Public Health. The DPH guy would excuse the plumber but hold back the inspector, to which he would give him an ear full. Needless to say they would get tired of this and would call the city to have him fired. They went through 6 inspectors in 4 years before they found someone that knew what they were doing.



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

said by kherr:

]
Been there done that. We used to have problems with the plumbing inspector in this one town. He would make shit up just to fail inspections. Being Illinois, we have fairly strict state codes. A city/county may made additional requirements as long as it makes the code more restrictive than state, but you must have an ordinance to do so. The plumbers would play the game but when it would get out of hand a plumber would call his bluff. The inspector and plumber would go to Springfield and present their cases to the Department of Public Health. The DPH guy would excuse the plumber but hold back the inspector, to which he would give him an ear full. Needless to say they would get tired of this and would call the city to have him fired. They went through 6 inspectors in 4 years before they found someone that knew what they were doing.

Exactly what I was referring to. They can make life miserable.


Rifleman
Premium
join:2004-02-09
p1a

1 recommendation

reply to dib22

Up here in Ontario the inspector doesn't even have to see the place for electrical. There is a list of "approved contractors" that never have their work checked out---and the places I've done suggest they should be.



dib22

join:2002-01-27
Kansas City, MO
reply to MaynardKrebs

said by MaynardKrebs:

Are the sections we're looking at above or below grade?
If above grade, how much further up do they extend?

Above grade, and they go to thigh high. There is a cement footing (around 3x their width) under them with rebar that connects into these.

Tig

join:2006-06-29
Carrying Place, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms
reply to Jack_in_VA

Sure I have. I had an inspector go off on me over a home I designed. I made an appointment to see him. We sat down, he backed off. I have a great relationship with that county now. If you're knowledgeable and respectful, it works out.
In the end, code is code. It's all in black and white.