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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8
reply to Jack_in_VA

Re: Structural Question, Floor Joist Holes

It is unclear if there is an issue with that notch since we cannot see what the surrounding structure looks like.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to garys_2k



At least your son didn't have a disaster like this.

»ecmweb.com/what039s-wrong-here/w ··· s?page=2


garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
·Callcentric
reply to pende_tim
said by pende_tim:

Make sure there was no oil tank ever installed or if one was removed that proper inspection paperwork was done when removed.

Assuming his offer is accepted (the seller's agent thought it would be, we'll hear today) we're going over there tomorrow with a house inspector. We'll DEFINITELY look for evidence of an oil tank and what the deal is with that copper line.


John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8
reply to nonymous
Bah, that's not that many cables...

nonymous
Premium
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ
reply to alkizmo
said by alkizmo:

said by nunya:

I'm sitting here trying to think how you could even deduce that from my post.

said by nunya:

1 cable per hole is the best method.

Obviously he needs less cables, not more holes

That would work also. Maybe some sub panels.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
reply to nunya
said by nunya:

I'm sitting here trying to think how you could even deduce that from my post.

said by nunya:

1 cable per hole is the best method.

Obviously he needs less cables, not more holes


Coma
Thanks Steve
Premium
join:2001-12-30
NirvanaLand
kudos:1
reply to nunya
said by nunya:

I'm sitting here trying to think how you could even deduce that from my post.


He's from Arizona . . .

--
November is National Epilepsy Month


nunya
LXI 483
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:13
reply to nonymous

So you would drill more holes?


I'm sitting here trying to think how you could even deduce that from my post.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.

nonymous
Premium
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ
reply to nunya
said by nunya:

The rule I've practiced "ever since" is no closer than 2" from the bottom (or the top), and the holes should be at least 2" apart.

Plumbers are the ones you really have to watch. They can really do some damage.

I'd be more concerned with the "bundling" in those pictures. 1 cable per hole is the best method.

So you would drill more holes?


pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ
kudos:1
reply to garys_2k
Make sure there was no oil tank ever installed or if one was removed that proper inspection paperwork was done when removed.
--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.


garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
·Callcentric
reply to alkizmo
Thanks, everyone, the fifty-year "test" is what I thought, too, but I wanted more opinions. I told him not to put a big aquarium over that area and he can live with that (he does have an aquarium, so it wasn't entirely in jest).

As for the copper tubing, I really just noticed that while looking at the picture. The house is heated with gas, but oil was a popular option in the past. My son is putting an offer on it today so, if it comes to that, we'll track down where that seems to come from. If it goes "into the ground" and it looks like there's a tank there we'll put that on the seller to remove and have inspected.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

It's been that way for over 50 years with no apparent adverse effects.

This, 50 times this.

The wiring, well, the holes at least, look like they were made during construction. If nothing happened in 50 years, nothing will happen unless another stressor is put into the mix.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to garys_2k
It's been that way for over 50 years with no apparent adverse effects. One has to assume the wiring was inspected by the AHJ and passed. So is there a problem being invented on here that doesn't exist?

I suggest your son get a home inspector to look at it and go from there. That should be sufficient to address the issue.

Tig

join:2006-06-29
Carrying Place, ON

1 edit
reply to garys_2k
What's the span on the joists?
What's the dimension of the joists? 2x8?
16" spacing on the joists? (based on the block wall.)

Those dimension will give us some idea of the how the joists fare in today's code.
The holes appear to be insignificant. Numbers may support this opinion.
As you mentioned, it has passed the 60 year test. So if that that's the biggest concern, it's a gem.

On the topic of home heating oil. Insurance companies do not like oil around here. Fear of leaks.


pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to garys_2k
Is that copper line for an oil tank? Is it above grade or buried? If buried, be aware of the ri$k of leaking fuel tanks, especially on a 60 year old home.
--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.

telco_mtl

join:2012-01-06
reply to garys_2k
as someone who does do pre-purchase inspections that is somthing i would note on the report, but as others have said considering the age of the house, and that houses in the 50s often were overbuilt (lumber was cheap) i wouldnt worry, i would worry about heat from the bundled cables though. As others have said as well, plumbers tend to do worse. I saw a bathroom reno that completely sectionned a joist in 4 places. One for the tub, 1 for the sink, 1 for the shower and 1 for the john, so there were sections of joist hanging from the floor... Yes the floor was holding up the joist.


cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to Ken
said by Ken:

the close to the ends like in your picture the top and bottom are under much less stress. So drilling holes like that near the bottom and near the end of the joist is not nearly as bad as drilling in the same location in the middle of the span. This is only true for dimensional lumber though. Check if any of the joists are cracked

In the 2nd picture, looking at the wood grain, if it was going to split due to tensile stress it would have happened right there.

Ideally you drill in the center. The fact that the house is 50 years old probably is a good sign. I wouldn't worry about it unless there is obvious splitting damage that isn't seen.


Ken
Premium,MVM
join:2003-06-16
Markle, IN

1 recommendation

reply to garys_2k
Dimensional lumber as I can tell you are aware has the top and bottom of the joist under the most stress. So ideally you want to drill in the center whenever possible. However the midpoint of the span is under the most stress and the close to the ends like in your picture the top and bottom are under much less stress. So drilling holes like that near the bottom and near the end of the joist is not nearly as bad as drilling in the same location in the middle of the span. This is only true for dimensional lumber though. Check if any of the joists are cracked, and check if the floor has sagged more than a normal amount. If nothing has happened yet it never will unless you greatly increase the load on the floor above.


nunya
LXI 483
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:13
Reviews:
·Charter
·voip.ms
reply to garys_2k
The rule I've practiced "ever since" is no closer than 2" from the bottom (or the top), and the holes should be at least 2" apart.

Plumbers are the ones you really have to watch. They can really do some damage.

I'd be more concerned with the "bundling" in those pictures. 1 cable per hole is the best method.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.


garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
·Callcentric
Click for full size
Note the holes in the joists, in the tensile part of the joist
Click for full size
Camera pointed the other way...
My son is considering buying a 1950's built house and we found this work in the basement. Apparantly the original electrician hadn't heard about how to correctly drill through floor joists -- he put the holes in about the worst possible place (but, at least they're near the sill end).

The house has been fine for over 50 years so it'd be hard to think that it's going to start falling apart soon, but still -- is this something to worry about?