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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to dennismurphy

Re: NG Generator

said by dennismurphy:

The pipe all the way to the left is the vent.

And the vent is piped because the meter looks to be in a basement, garage, or some other indoor, enclosed space. I know mine which is outside doesn't have a piped vent as it just vents directly to atmosphere.


dennismurphy
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Parsippany, NJ
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·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

said by cdru:

said by dennismurphy:

The pipe all the way to the left is the vent.

And the vent is piped because the meter looks to be in a basement, garage, or some other indoor, enclosed space. I know mine which is outside doesn't have a piped vent as it just vents directly to atmosphere.

Correct. It is indeed in the basement. Wouldn't want to vent it there, now would we? . (unless, of course, we're in Ken's barn!)

kherr
Premium
join:2000-09-04
Collinsville, IL
Reviews:
·Charter
reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

I really hope no licensed plumber installed that abortion. I guess you can install anything with enough unions, couplings, 90's and Offsets.

What's with the offset, coupling and 90 on the top right (outlet) of the meter? Check out the regulator a 90 a short piece of straight, a coupling, a straight, another 90, a union and yet another 90.

He didn't want to cut anything. He must have had a bunch of nipple paks ..........


cdru
Go Colts
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join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to dennismurphy
said by dennismurphy:

Wouldn't want to vent it there, now would we? . (unless, of course, we're in Ken's barn!)

Venting indoors isn't a problem. It's when the diaphragm fails and starts leaking NG that the problem happens.


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
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said by cdru:

said by dennismurphy:

Wouldn't want to vent it there, now would we? . (unless, of course, we're in Ken's barn!)

Venting indoors isn't a problem. It's when the diaphragm fails and starts leaking NG that the problem happens.

Or for those with propane regulators... it's when the diaphragm fails and starts leaking propane indoors that the problem happens!


jack b
Gone Fishing
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod
kudos:1
reply to dennismurphy
Having a regulator on the head of the service is sort of good news, but that particular regulator is only good for tops 200 cfh. You will need to submit a work request to pse&g to get the upgrade ball rolling.

They will be able to tell you the inlet delivery pressure and service maximum capacity and they (should) supply you with the correct replacement regulator which will likely be 1 inch inlet by 1-1/4 inch outlet. Once that's done you will need a larger gas meter.

Depending on how things work down there, you will either need to hire a plumber or else the gas company might do the job.

PS: If the round washer (meter gasket) sitting on the inlet pipe is rigid fiber, it might contain asbestos. If it's rubber then it's ok.
--
~Help Find a Cure for Cancer~
~Proud Member of Team Discovery ~


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
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Reviews:
·Millenicom
said by jack b:

Having a regulator on the head of the service is sort of good news, but that particular regulator is only good for tops 200 cfh. You will need to submit a work request to pse&g to get the upgrade ball rolling.

They will be able to tell you the inlet delivery pressure and service maximum capacity and they (should) supply you with the correct replacement regulator which will likely be 1 inch inlet by 1-1/4 inch outlet. Once that's done you will need a larger gas meter.

What good will changing the size and capacity of the regulator to 1 or 1-1/2 inch do without increasing the size of the supply line? If the gas supply is insufficient changing the regulator won't increase the gas available to the OP.

Getting a assessment from the gas company should be a top priortiy on the OP's to do list.

Depending on how things work down there, you will either need to hire a plumber or else the gas company might do the job.

That would be the correct action regardless of his location and requirements if the gas company doesn't.

PS: If the round washer (meter gasket) sitting on the inlet pipe is rigid fiber, it might contain asbestos. If it's rubber then it's ok.

?????? what difference does that make? A small gasket that may or may not contain a little asbestos should not pose any problem and the gas company would more than likely handle that anyway if they change out the meter.


cdru
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Fort Wayne, IN
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said by Jack_in_VA:

What good will changing the size and capacity of the regulator to 1 or 1-1/2 inch do without increasing the size of the supply line? If the gas supply is insufficient changing the regulator won't increase the gas available to the OP.

Thanks to Boyle's Law, it makes a difference. A higher pressure lower volume gas line can supply a lower pressure higher volume line. The relationship is inversely proportional. A line that supplies say 100 cubic feet at 10psi can supply 200 cubic feet at 5psi.


Jack_in_VA
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North, VA
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·Millenicom
said by cdru:

said by Jack_in_VA:

What good will changing the size and capacity of the regulator to 1 or 1-1/2 inch do without increasing the size of the supply line? If the gas supply is insufficient changing the regulator won't increase the gas available to the OP.

Thanks to Boyle's Law, it makes a difference. A higher pressure lower volume gas line can supply a lower pressure higher volume line. The relationship is inversely proportional. A line that supplies say 100 cubic feet at 10psi can supply 200 cubic feet at 5psi.

That's assuming the extra 100 cfm is there. Nobody knows that yet and that is why the OP needs to get the gas company involved. We can speculate all we want but the gas co will make that determination.

I know people with gas that have a problem in real cold weather and the demand is heavy. The system does not have enough capacity and the pressure drops are serious enough to cause major problems.


dennismurphy
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Parsippany, NJ
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said by Jack_in_VA:

That's assuming the extra 100 cfm is there. Nobody knows that yet and that is why the OP needs to get the gas company involved. We can speculate all we want but the gas co will make that determination.

Will do, probably after the holidays. I'm traveling for work just about every week between now and then anyway.

Mr Matt

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Eustis, FL
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reply to dennismurphy
Before you become dependent on natural gas to fuel your generator you might want to view this story that broke this morning:

»m.wesh.com/news/Road-reopens-aft···dex.html


dennismurphy
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said by Mr Matt:

Before you become dependent on natural gas to fuel your generator you might want to view this story that broke this morning:

You can only design for so many failures.

If the electric fails AND natural gas supply fails AND I can't get more gasoline for my portable generator, then I'm up the creek.

... as I would be if a meteor hit my house.


cdru
Go Colts
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join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

That's assuming the extra 100 cfm is there. Nobody knows that yet and that is why the OP needs to get the gas company involved. We can speculate all we want but the gas co will make that determination.

But that wasn't what you asked. You asked what good would increasing the regulator size without increasing the supply line. And I pointed out why increasing the size or capacity of the regulator without increasing the actual supply line CAN matter.

If a line can supply X cfm at Y psi on one side of a regulator, it can supply Z*X cfm at 1/Z * Y psi on the other side (within the design limitations of the regulator). There is no "extra" as the gas is already there, just at an increase pressure. It's the same principal with a step-up or step-down transformer. The basic principal is the total number of watts going in to a transformer equals about the same number of watts coming out. But instead of volts and amps we have pressure and volume.

If the pressure drops when demand is heavy, then the first premises of what I said ("If a line can supply 100 cfm at 10psi") no longer holds since it can't supply 100 cfm at 10psi. And since it no longer holds, the rest of my statement doesn't apply. And you're right, THAT is what the OP needs to talk to their gas company about.


jack b
Gone Fishing
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join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod
kudos:1
reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

What good will changing the size and capacity of the regulator to 1 or 1-1/2 inch do without increasing the size of the supply line?

ASSuming the supply line already has the capacity for the new load, which in all likelihood it does, then all he needs is a larger regulator and meter.

said by Jack_in_VA:

If the gas supply is insufficient changing the regulator won't increase the gas available to the OP.

Ya think?

said by Jack_in_VA:

A small gasket that may or may not contain a little asbestos should not pose any problem and the gas company would more than likely handle that anyway if they change out the meter.

I won't even get into what the utility company leaving potentially asbestos containing material unsecured in a customer's house can entail...

...when little Johnny's mommy finds him EATING it, thinking it's a treat....
--
~Help Find a Cure for Cancer~
~Proud Member of Team Discovery ~


Jack_in_VA
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North, VA
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reply to cdru
I said why speculate. Let the gas company assess it and make their recommendations. The OP will know what exactly if anything he needs to do.

BTW I don't need a class on gas, air, water regulators or electrical transformer operation or theory. I'm well qualified in to understand the principles and operation.

I could discuss some high pressure pulverized coal boilers, GE Triple extraction turbine generators if you would like. A lot of pressure reduction there. 1500 psi superheated steam to 210 psi saturated steam.


Jack_in_VA
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North, VA
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reply to jack b
said by jack b:

I won't even get into what the utility company leaving potentially asbestos containing material unsecured in a customer's house can entail...

...when little Johnny's mommy finds him EATING it, thinking it's a treat....

Having a gasket in a connection that contains a little or a lot of asbestos is hardly leaving it unsecured. Good grief do you live in a bubble free from anything that could possibly harm you?

Maybe mommy should take little Johnny's pipe wrench away so he can't be disconnecting gas lines.


dennismurphy
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Parsippany, NJ
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I suspect he's talking about the gasket sitting loose on top of the supply pipe. I'll get rid of it eventually.

Glad I didn't show the 1,001 other potentially harmful items in the rear basement, starting with the bottles of dihydrogen monoxide. That shit can kill you, even in small doses.

garys_2k
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join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
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·callwithus
said by dennismurphy:

the 1,001 other potentially harmful items in the rear basement, starting with the bottles of dihydrogen monoxide. That shit can kill you, even in small doses.

It is piped to MILITARY facilities where it is administered to the occupants. No doubt some sort of hideous experiment! Prisoners are given it, too. What a sick society we've become...


Jack_in_VA
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join:2007-11-26
North, VA
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Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to dennismurphy
said by dennismurphy:

I suspect he's talking about the gasket sitting loose on top of the supply pipe. I'll get rid of it eventually.

Glad I didn't show the 1,001 other potentially harmful items in the rear basement, starting with the bottles of dihydrogen monoxide. That shit can kill you, even in small doses.

Better cover it before someone turns you in to the nanny police or EPA.


dennismurphy
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Parsippany, NJ
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to garys_2k
said by garys_2k:

said by dennismurphy:

the 1,001 other potentially harmful items in the rear basement, starting with the bottles of dihydrogen monoxide. That shit can kill you, even in small doses.

It is piped to MILITARY facilities where it is administered to the occupants. No doubt some sort of hideous experiment! Prisoners are given it, too. What a sick society we've become...

I understand it's a pretty painful way to go. Probably violates the Geneva convention!


cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to garys_2k
said by garys_2k:

Prisoners are given it, too. What a sick society we've become...

And the consequences of NOT giving it to prisoners is even worse then giving it to them. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
Guys, let's not joke about this. My brother died from a dihydrogen monoxide leak while taking a bath. The city never accepted to take the blame.


dosdoxies
Premium
join:2004-12-15
Wallingford, PA
reply to SwedishRider
said by SwedishRider:

said by cdru:

said by dennismurphy:

Wouldn't want to vent it there, now would we? . (unless, of course, we're in Ken's barn!)

Venting indoors isn't a problem. It's when the diaphragm fails and starts leaking NG that the problem happens.

Or for those with propane regulators... it's when the diaphragm fails and starts leaking propane indoors that the problem happens!

If one has propane, wouldn't the regulator be outside?
--
The more people I meet, the better I like my dogs.


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
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join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1
said by dosdoxies:

If one has propane, wouldn't the regulator be outside?

Not necessarily. The regulator can be located inside, but the vent must be piped to the outside, and the vent discharge point must still meet certain code requirements (5' from source of ignition, 3' from openings, etc.)

But typically, yes, a propane regulator is outside of one's home.