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to inGearX
Re: Sandy ... mom GAVE AWAY her damaged car :/ help analyze!It's illegal to sell a flood damaged car as a used car. People were trying to do that after the big floods in Scranton/Wilkes Barre back in the late 60's and I think that's when they enacted or toughed the law.
Used cars in the area will be undergoing a lot more scrutiny by dealers and purchasers for the next several months, to make sure they aren't getting screwed. |
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said by 8744675:It's illegal to sell a flood damaged car as a used car. People were trying to do that after the big floods in Scranton/Wilkes Barre back in the late 60's and I think that's when they enacted or toughed the law.
Used cars in the area will be undergoing a lot more scrutiny by dealers and purchasers for the next several months, to make sure they aren't getting screwed.
car companies also go to great lengths to prove damaged cars in transit dont make their way into the market, a few years back a boat full of mazdas rolled on its side just off the west coast. As we all know cars are VERY well strapped down on those ships but lying on their side for a month isnt all that great for the engine. They invited the media to see the cars crushed on the dock. » www.autoblog.com/2006/12 ··· gar-ace/ |
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| telco_mtl |
and if you want to cry (and im not a mazda fan) look at the crushing photos! |
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 BonezXBasement Dweller
Premium Member
join:2004-04-13
Canada |
to telco_mtl
said by telco_mtl:car companies also go to great lengths to prove damaged cars in transit dont make their way into the market, a few years back a boat full of mazdas rolled on its side just off the west coast. As we all know cars are VERY well strapped down on those ships but lying on their side for a month isnt all that great for the engine.
They invited the media to see the cars crushed on the dock.
»www.autoblog.com/2006/12 ··· gar-ace/
actually most of it is the potential for abnormal stress damage. cars are designed to sit a specific way within a specific range of angles, when tilted over like they were it would cause stresses on parts not normally stressed(one strut mount over 100% designed compression, other under tension), as well as potentially bending frames and other important components, the engines and trans would be fine(weren't moving not submerged), mounts suspension and body not quite so much. |
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said by BonezX:said by telco_mtl:car companies also go to great lengths to prove damaged cars in transit dont make their way into the market, a few years back a boat full of mazdas rolled on its side just off the west coast. As we all know cars are VERY well strapped down on those ships but lying on their side for a month isnt all that great for the engine.
They invited the media to see the cars crushed on the dock.
»www.autoblog.com/2006/12 ··· gar-ace/
actually most of it is the potential for abnormal stress damage. cars are designed to sit a specific way within a specific range of angles, when tilted over like they were it would cause stresses on parts not normally stressed(one strut mount over 100% designed compression, other under tension), as well as potentially bending frames and other important components, the engines and trans would be fine(weren't moving not submerged), mounts suspension and body not quite so much. agreed, some cars are designed to live with this stress, remember how they used to ship chevy vega's (nose down!) |
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 EGeezer
Premium Member
join:2002-08-04
Midwest
1 edit |
to inGearX
I believe she did the right thing. The question I have is will the guys who bought it do the right thing? "someone bought it as scrap - the deed ... for $250 !!! The clean title may be worth more than the car to a crook. Look for shady operators to launder the title, clean it out and try to unload it as an undamaged vehicle before the stench and electrical problems overwhelm it. See » www.phillyburbs.com/my_t ··· c27.htmland » www.businessweek.com/ap/ ··· aged-car |
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to inGearX
that is somthing that has been known to happen here in quebec, scrapyard operators buying clean titled junkers (no salvage title) only for their VIN. |
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to Juggernaut
said by Juggernaut:I was referring to the wrecker. They'll make $2000 off this car, minimum.
No they won't. KBB on these isn't much more than that in fair condition... and this one is worthless. Engine, transmission, and everything electrical is completly ruined. Interior is ruined. Only thing even remotely salvageable is some of the body, and even that is questionable because it was submerged in several feet of salt water. This car is only worth its weight it scrap metal. |
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| Rambo76098 |
to BloodDragon
said by BloodDragon:Hate to be the only naysayer, but......
1. If the car cost $1300 a year to keep on the road, it was time to get rid of it any way.
2. Yes people frown on flood cars, but there are a ton on the road many more than people seem to want to believe. The same seals and gaskets that keep your oil, trans fluid and every other fluid in check and from leaking will also keep water out.
The major issue with flooding is when people run there car in flood waters and suck water into the motor through the exhaust during a stall.
No one ever see an off road vehicle with a snorkel so the vehicle can be submerged in water and still run?
If the car wasn't running when in water, let every thing dry out very well(no one ever take there car to the car wash cover the distributor/coil packs and pressure wash it?) drain the oil and trans fluid, refill. Replace air filter, pull spark plugs, crank engine over to insure no water in cylinders. put plugs pack in, start car. After running for a little bit drain and refill oil and trans fluid again and change filters to be safe.
1. Uhh, no. That's $108/mo. That's far cheaper than any car payment. 2. No again. Once the water gets up to the level of the intake (which it clearly did here, the fire blanket is covered in crap), the water goes into the intake and down into all the cylinders that have the valves open (probably at least 2). Upper intake manifold on this engine is plastic, but the lower is metal - those were also full. And remember, this is salt water. The inside of engine blocks don't like water, and salt water is way more corrosive. PS - you can't suck water in thru the exhaust. The flood cars you are taking about are either newer, so it was worth replacing everything, or only had a foot or 2 of water in them, enough to ruin the interior but not everything mechanical. This car's KBB is only a few thousand in good shape. |
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to inGearX
$250 for an old car soaked in salt water, towing included?
Adios, and thanks for the cash! |
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 Beezel
join:2008-12-15
Las Vegas, NV |
to rjgogo
said by rjgogo:said by BloodDragon:Hate to be the only naysayer, but......
The major issue with flooding is when people run there car in flood waters and suck water into the motor through the exhaust during a stall.
Please explain how an engine can suck water in through the exhaust. This statement really gives you no credibility. Without the engine running "stalled" if the exhaust is submerged the water can fill the exhaust and go into the engine if the water level is high enough to fill up to the exhaust manifold. There will be some exhaust valves open to let the water in. said by Rambo76098:No they won't. KBB on these isn't much more than that in fair condition... and this one is worthless. Engine, transmission, and everything electrical is completly ruined. Interior is ruined. Only thing even remotely salvageable is some of the body, and even that is questionable because it was submerged in several feet of salt water. The salt water wont hurt the metal because it wasn't under for a long time plus the factory electroplating for corrosion on the metal, primer, and paint also. There is money in the glass, plastic, also you have the tires and wheels. So the price could add up if you part it out. |
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to inGearX
Now the real question is: when you know the water is going to raise why not move the car elsewhere??? Or at least buy comprehensive insurance with low deductible... |
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BonezXBasement Dweller
Premium Member
join:2004-04-13
Canada |
to telco_mtl
said by telco_mtl:agreed, some cars are designed to live with this stress, remember how they used to ship chevy vega's (nose down!)
they still truck them at some serious angles, but they are well under 45degrees. nothing beats seeing 6 crown vics at almost 40° angles on the back of a truck because of a bet, which was you could put them on there, not that you could legally drive with them like that, ~13ft max height, these worked out to about 14.5. |
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 JeffConnoisseur of leisurely things
Premium Member
join:2002-12-24
GMT -5 |
to inGearX
Your mom got $250 more than I would have given her to tow it away. Consider yourself lucky, & that you're both alive. Can't say the same for the 100-homes in Breezy Point, or the many people living in FEMA tent city in Eisenhower Park, or the 7 people I work with who lost everything but the clothes on their back.
It was time to get rid of that car anyway. Take the $250, add a few thousand, and shop around for a quality used vehicle. |
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 AVDRespice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium Member
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ |
AVD to Jtmo
Premium Member
2012-Nov-13 7:37 am
to Jtmo
said by Jtmo:TEven a bandaid approach would be more than buying a good used car, plus the nickle and dimeing
the market is going to be flooded with bad cars for the foreseeable future. (pun intended) I wouldn't trust a used car around here for the next 5 years, and even "new" cars are suspect. |
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| AVD |
to dsl14350
said by dsl14350:If you/she didn't have any comp ins...kick yourself where ever it hurts the most...
comprehensive for a $3000 car, In New York? |
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to Beezel
said by Beezel:said by rjgogo:said by BloodDragon:Hate to be the only naysayer, but......
The major issue with flooding is when people run there car in flood waters and suck water into the motor through the exhaust during a stall.
Please explain how an engine can suck water in through the exhaust. This statement really gives you no credibility. Without the engine running "stalled" if the exhaust is submerged the water can fill the exhaust and go into the engine if the water level is high enough to fill up to the exhaust manifold. There will be some exhaust valves open to let the water in. If the water is high enough it comes in from the intake, not the exhaust and salt water in a cylinder for days means trashed. The car is a wreck and they were lucky to get someone to take it away and still make $250. The buyers may make something but it was not a rip off. |
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to inGearX
Does your car have insurance? You should be able to get the blue book value which looks around $3000 - $4000 |
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 SteveI know your IP address
join:2001-03-10
Tustin, CA |
Steve
2012-Nov-13 1:17 pm
I can understand not reading the whole thread, but not even reading the first post? said by the OP :we did not have comprehensive insurance for flood damage... |
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KearnstdSpace Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ |
to inGearX
Of course the scrap yard will make a fortune. parts of that car are still perfectly fine with a bit of cleaning.
But it will never be functional as a whole car for more than the cost of a similar aged vehicle or even the downpayment on a reasonably priced new car.
That is kind of how I ended up with my 2012 Cruze. My 2000 Impala the whole control system for the traction and ABS was shot as well as some special valves. garages quoted me $3200 to rebuild the system... That is more than the KBB for that car by $1000 or more(it was a family car with over 100k on it and it was certainly well used And most of the miles where not highway miles at all as well as most of its life being in Connecticut so as with most New England cars odds are it had rust galore on the undercarriage.) |
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 captlockheedThe reawakening of German air supremacy.
join:2003-07-12
Metairie, LA |
to inGearX
If the car was submerged to the roof, then the car is toast. As a lifelong resident of the New Orleans area I have seen what flood waters do to autos. First Betsy then Katrina and several once in a 100 year rainfalls.
I feel for you and your mom. |
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to inGearX
The only thing you could have reused from the car were the tires. So if you had a $1000 set of tires on the car you should have removed them first.
Everything else is just the reuse value of the metal and plastic contents.
Lesson? GET FULL COVERAGE. Many places will let you get comprehensive without collision which is what is needed in this case.
Oh, I'm not sure, but if it's her only car she might be able to seek assistance from FEMA to buy a replacement. |
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 nunyaLXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO ·Charter
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to inGearX
It's very unfortunate. There's nothing wrong with driving a 10 year old car and paying to maintain it. Even if you spent $2500 / yr, it would be cheaper than buying a new car and making payments, full coverage, taxes, etc... It's almost always "cheaper to keep 'er".
What really sucks is if you are not in a financial position at this time to replace it (not many people are).
I think your mom did the right thing, and I do not think she got ripped off. I think she got a fair price considering the circumstance.
Here, if water goes over the door sill and entered the vehicle, it is considered "FLOOD VEHICLE" title. If the estimated cost to repair is over 33-1/3% of the value of the vehicle, it is considered "SALVAGE".
True story, my sisters first car was bought at a dealership owned by a friend. When we got home, there was a message on the answering machine from the dealer. They said to bring the car back. It can't be sold in Illinois. It had been in a flood. |
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BonezXBasement Dweller
Premium Member
join:2004-04-13
Canada |
BonezX
Premium Member
2012-Nov-13 10:24 pm
said by nunya:It's very unfortunate. There's nothing wrong with driving a 10 year old car and paying to maintain it. Even if you spent $2500 / yr, it would be cheaper than buying a new car and making payments, full coverage, taxes, etc... It's almost always "cheaper to keep 'er". i tried telling that to my bank once, it turned into "why don't you get an auto loan for a new car, and pay that off" "because i would need full coverage insurance for the life of the loan, as well as it would cost more then most used cars for me to get that insurance" "but you have to keep putting 1k in your car each year, why would you keep it" "because i would have to pay 4k a year for the next 4 to get another car, and then another 1k a year for repairs on that car" this went on for an hour, i hung up on them. said by nunya:True story, my sisters first car was bought at a dealership owned by a friend. When we got home, there was a message on the answering machine from the dealer. They said to bring the car back. It can't be sold in Illinois. It had been in a flood. at least they told you, there were people that tried to sell salvage titled cars from the states up here as "good to go" vehicles. |
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Beezel
join:2008-12-15
Las Vegas, NV |
to rjgogo
said by rjgogo:If the water is high enough it comes in from the intake, not the exhaust and salt water in a cylinder for days means trashed. The exhaust manifolds are "usually" lower than the actual opening to the intake not air box, so it can enter from the exhaust just as well. Also you can clean, machine, and repair the engine block and head cores themselves and use in a total rebuild. Been there and done that and have the t-shirt and calluses from it. |
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to rjgogo
i had a Ford Probe get water into the air intake and stall. Took it to Ford and they had to replace the engine. My insurance paid 6500 and I paid my deductible of 500 plus I had to pay a betterment charge of 1100 for a new engine, I had 36,000 miles on it.
A month later, I received a letter from ford saying there was a recall on my car. They needed to install a water filter on the air intake to keep high standing water from entering the engine risking engine failure.
Took the letter to the ford dealership that did the work and two weeks later received a full refund on the new engine. I was very lucky I guess you could say, lol. |
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 cdruGo Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
1 recommendation |
to Beezel
said by Beezel:Also you can clean, machine, and repair the engine block and head cores themselves and use in a total rebuild. Been there and done that and have the t-shirt and calluses from it. It's not a question of whether or not it can be rebuilt. It's a matter of if it's economically viable to rebuild it. Properly rebuilding the engine and transmission alone is going to be more than the vehicle is worth. That doesn't account for all the other electrical items that are going to need to be replaced, the new interior, or all the other gremlins that are going to show up. |
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 Anonymous_Anonymous
Premium Member
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
3 edits |
to inGearX
said by inGearX:NOW due to the demand for cars ... an average price for a used car will go up...
I'm like WHY ?
can you please shed some light on this ...
I am angry and bitter about this...
how much would it be to fix the car to running condition ?
what am I failing to see?
thank you very much...
would have paid you $150 just for the side skirts on that car. talking about getting ripped off you could have parted the car your self. and made 2k-4k or so. rims just by them self will break the buyer even. he will get about $75 too $120 each(with tire) |
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to Anonymous_
Re: Sandy ... mom GAVE AWAY her damaged car :/ help analyze!said by Anonymous_:would have paid you $150 just for the side skirts on that car.
talking about getting ripped off you could have parted the car your self. and made 2k-4k or so.
rims just by them self will break the buyer even. he will get about $75 too $120 each(with tire)
Don't forget all the glass is reusable. $50 windows, $150 windshield, $300+ rear glass with heater wires. |
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