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wirelessdog

join:2008-07-15
Queen Anne, MD
kudos:1

Homebrew DSL

Are any of you running homebrew DSL from your towers to customers not reachable by wireless?


LLigetfa

join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON
kudos:1

Not from tower to customer since I don't run a traditional WISP. I have used several SHDSL modems in back-to-back circuits. Also have bonded several pairs with Adtran TA238 units.

The dry pairs from the TelCo cost ~ $25/month.
--
Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and formal education positively fortifies it. -- Stephen Vizinczey



Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2

I wholesale a DSL service thru another company. Not a lot of money in it really, just augments the whole service.

I really wanted to do a wireless-to-dslam or fibre/MLPPP DSL-to-dslam in MDUs but that never seems to get far.

I can put up towers next to 10 different TelCo outside plant interface boxes and put a dslam at the bottom, and connect into the F2 to service hundreds of customers, but of course the TelCo wont let you do that.

Its a load of crap, that these areas go unserviced because of only political reasons.
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca


voxframe

join:2010-08-02

said by Inssomniak:

I can put up towers next to 10 different TelCo outside plant interface boxes and put a dslam at the bottom, and connect into the F2 to service hundreds of customers...

I started reading that with a glimmer of hope thinking "Holy crap did he actually manage to pull THAT off???! And HOW!?"

Then I finished... Damn

LLigetfa

join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON
kudos:1
reply to Inssomniak

A regional WISP (Vianet) played their CLEC card and moved a lot of former wireless subs over to DSL wherever the TelCo built out.

There is another WISP here (TBayTel) running Canopy that is a regional cellular carrier. The same local WISP inked a deal to carry their service over the Canopy network. The funny thing is that they claim that they can offer better service than what the cell carrier can.
--
Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and formal education positively fortifies it. -- Stephen Vizinczey


wirelessdog

join:2008-07-15
Queen Anne, MD
kudos:1
reply to wirelessdog

Dry pairs at $25 a month would still leave room for profit I would think. Thats what I have been thinking about. Either dry pairs into the tower site or in some cases a nearby commercial location with LOS to the tower.

I have some areas that have such dense foliage that nothing will work.

Perhaps whitespace in the future but that is unavailable and pricy.


wirelessdog

join:2008-07-15
Queen Anne, MD
kudos:1
reply to wirelessdog

In terms of "remote terminals" If my tower i.e. DSLAM location is on the same RT as the potential customer I could be ok?



Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2
reply to wirelessdog

Yea Im not familiar with dry pairs from Bell Canada (please feel free to fill me in! LLigetfa!)

It would be interesting, to put up a tower near a OPI, for example I can think of two I could service hundreds of cottages from with LOS to a PoP with a small 30 foot tower. get the phone company to install dry pairs to my tower to a customer (assuming no loaded pairs) for $25 a month to Bell, then my markup. But DSL is low maintenance compared to wireless, and Bell would have to fix any pair issues.

Is this even possible with Bell Canada? I dont see why I would have to be a CLEC for this

I know the rules are different in the states.
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca


LLigetfa

join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON
kudos:1

said by Inssomniak:

Yea Im not familiar with dry pairs from Bell Canada (please feel free to fill me in! LLigetfa!)

Some guys call them alarm circuits. Be careful they don't try to upsell you to LDDS (limited distance data set) circuits at a higher cost.

I think CLEC status can get you rack space and other stuff at tariff rates. Otherwise, they have you over a barrel. CLEC can also get you on their poles.
--
Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and formal education positively fortifies it. -- Stephen Vizinczey


jlramirez
Premium
join:2004-10-01
Sugar Grove, IL
reply to wirelessdog

Way back when... I used ADC Telecommunications HDSL equipment on dry pairs (alarm circuits). They'd remove any load coils and bridge taps and worked very well. I was situated a few blocks from the CO which help keep the loop lengths shorter.. I moved on to SDSL equipment later - used it for T-1 style business service.

Keep in mind that it'll pass through their wire center (CO) and back out to your location(s) so that has to be accounted for when looking at loop lengths. Carriers started getting a bit 'picky' as time went on - if you asked for coils, etc. to be removed then they wanted it to be a 'conditioned' circuit thus more money.

That was a long time ago.. In some regions now, its hard to get clean pairs for any HICAP services, good luck with the lowly alarm circuits..
--
Fiber Optics is the future of high-speed internet access. Stop by the BBR Fiber Optic Forum.


WHT

join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX
kudos:5
reply to wirelessdog

What happens when the telcos abandon their copper?


raytaylor

join:2009-07-28
kudos:1
reply to wirelessdog

Claim it as your own and then steal all their scotchloks



Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2

said by raytaylor:

Claim it as your own and then steal all their scotchloks

I have soo many scotchlocks I don't know what to do with myself. And there is no hope that the telco here is abandoning their copper.
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca


nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·Charter
·surpasshosting
reply to WHT

The "gansta's" will have it cut down and "recycled" within a few hours.
Seriously though, they scrap everything now. In the olden days, a dead cable might linger in the underground forever. After TA96 they wanted to make sure the ducts were not available for "competitors" (facilities based CLECs). The CLECSs got a ruling on that, so the telco's had to remove any dead cables.
There are probably still some 4800 pair cables with 2 or 3 air pressure circuits working on them.
Realistically, most everything copper goes to the scrappers. They pay the phone company for being allowed to come in and remove the cables.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.



Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2
reply to jlramirez

said by jlramirez:

Keep in mind that it'll pass through their wire center (CO) and back out to your location(s) so that has to be accounted for when looking at loop lengths.

Yea that wouldn't work. 20 thousand meter loops is tough to get sync on...
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca

OHSrob

join:2011-06-08
reply to wirelessdog

I have some QAM VDSL gear I was playing with but you need some serious insurance to get permission to use the hydro poles. Plus the costs add up fast.

There is one street where the only hope for anyone on it is VDSL but its too expensive for us to presently afford. (Even cell phone signals are in the high -90's vs the -70's to -80's everywhere else)

Wireless covers every other part of my coverage area quite nicely with very few house's that are truly unserviceable



TomS_
Git-r-done
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-19
London, UK
kudos:5
reply to wirelessdog

In Australia, your DSLAM had to be within 250 metres loop length from the MDF of the exchange. Otherwise you can rent specially prepared space within the exchange if its available.

We tended to find a friendly business near by that had a spare room out the back we could lease from them or the property owner. In a lot of cases we worked with the local councils, so it was not unusual to walk out the back of the council office and find a cabinet full of DSLAM equipment.

Otherwise, we had a cabinet on the street, usually just outside the exchange.



Semaphore
Premium
join:2003-11-18
101010
reply to LLigetfa

In my area of Ontario Latch fee's (pole fees) are stupid. Up to 43 per month per pole after the first year - first 12 months are 30% off though (waahoo!). Makes hanging your own fibre totally impractical. I've only ever succeeded once in getting a dry pair for a 'serial line' connection. Fee was 29 per month, or about 2x the DSL Dry Loop fee for that Bandrate. Strapped a pair of SDSL modems on it and got a whole .5 Mbps. Telco had no interest in troubleshooting it because it was well beyond the 9,600 bps that they 'guaranteed' on that serial line. That worked for a while and then I just built a WISP instead and now I get 20 Mbps But yes I've thought about the same thing. Even considered trenching my own multi pair cable in some areas (like trailer parks) but that's a totally different expense and hassle.


jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:2

said by Semaphore:

In my area of Ontario Latch fee's (pole fees) are stupid. Up to 43 per month per pole

I just approached one of the local power companies that serves the villages in my area and was amazed at the price they quoted for pole fees. $1.88/pole/YEAR. I am now planning some fiber deployments because it would be just plain stupid for me not to do it at that price.

prairiesky

join:2008-12-08
canada
kudos:2
reply to Semaphore

Trenching really isn't all that bad, goes pretty quick. Just cherry pick your markets. I'm finally getting my project well under way. My new problem is not having enough bandwidth, people are craving it!

Joe, your message is still lingering, will get back to you asap, might give you a call instead.

b



Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2
reply to jcremin

said by jcremin:

said by Semaphore:

In my area of Ontario Latch fee's (pole fees) are stupid. Up to 43 per month per pole

I just approached one of the local power companies that serves the villages in my area and was amazed at the price they quoted for pole fees. $1.88/pole/YEAR. I am now planning some fiber deployments because it would be just plain stupid for me not to do it at that price.

Nice.. It would a 1.88 per hour here.
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca

jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:2
reply to prairiesky

said by prairiesky:

Joe, your message is still lingering, will get back to you asap, might give you a call instead.

No problem. I've been out of the office this whole week on a rare opportunity to take a vacation. I'm going to tour another community fiber network in a week or so to see what they've done to build their system. They're also doing CATV over it, so it will be interesting to see the backend of that system.

ctech99

join:2010-02-16

Wow thats perfect, and now that you have a cheap lead on poles. Lucky. I was told down here they are $30/pole/year.

Is that community you are looking at local? Take me along!!! ;P


jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:2

said by ctech99:

Wow thats perfect, and now that you have a cheap lead on poles. Lucky. I was told down here they are $30/pole/year.

Yeah, it just happens to be the rate they set like 30 years ago when the CATV providers wanted to use the poles, and they said it wouldn't be fair to charge us more than they were charging someone else. They admitted they should probably revisit them someday, but that the increase probably wouldn't be significant. Heck, even if they raised the rates to double or triple, I would still view it as very reasonable.

said by ctech99:

Is that community you are looking at local? Take me along!!! ;P

It's Crosslake Communications in Crosslake, MN. They have been very open to talking about their project and were more than willing to give me a tour and show me what they have done, and what they wish they would have done differently. The only thing better than learning from your own mistakes is learning from someone else's.

djweis

join:2006-04-02
West Des Moines, IA
reply to voxframe

This is possible in the US. We're one of a handful of companies that have. I learned how to do it from these guys: »www.rric.net/



Semaphore
Premium
join:2003-11-18
101010
reply to jcremin

said by jcremin:

said by ctech99:

... and they said it wouldn't be fair to charge us more than they were charging someone else...

ROFL. Fair ? What a concept

Around here, not being one of 'the three' means they gouge, screw, rape and pillage you for all they can... and of course the gov. funds them up the ass but a competitor gets nuthin because they aren't 'big enough' ... Oh how I dream of even a near to fair market