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IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast

The next Bell System

Maybe if we give Google the perks and incentives that AT&T/Bell System was given, maybe they'll expand it to a national monopoly on broadband (fiber).

Maybe Google can buy out Verizon FiOS since Verizon seems very interested in exiting the wireline business and they don't seem to want to expand FiOS despite the fact it sells like hot cakes in areas that FiOS has been deployed.

Right now, Google is our only hope at getting FTTP in Springfield, MA since Verizon does not seem interested in bring FiOS here. Hopefully Google fiber will be a success and they'll expand into other areas.

elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink

1 recommendation

said by IowaCowboy:

Maybe if we give Google the perks and incentives that AT&T/Bell System was given, maybe they'll expand it to a national monopoly on broadband (fiber).

Maybe Google can buy out Verizon FiOS since Verizon seems very interested in exiting the wireline business and they don't seem to want to expand FiOS despite the fact it sells like hot cakes in areas that FiOS has been deployed.

If FiOS was "selling like hotcakes", Verizon would continue to expand its footprint.
The simple fact is that the majority of consumers in Fios territories do not want to pay for it - this has been proven for six years.

Who would pay $70+ a month for fiber optic when you can get cable modem or DSL service for $30? Answer: not that many.


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
said by elray:

said by IowaCowboy:

Maybe if we give Google the perks and incentives that AT&T/Bell System was given, maybe they'll expand it to a national monopoly on broadband (fiber).

Maybe Google can buy out Verizon FiOS since Verizon seems very interested in exiting the wireline business and they don't seem to want to expand FiOS despite the fact it sells like hot cakes in areas that FiOS has been deployed.

If FiOS was "selling like hotcakes", Verizon would continue to expand its footprint.
The simple fact is that the majority of consumers in Fios territories do not want to pay for it - this has been proven for six years.

Who would pay $70+ a month for fiber optic when you can get cable modem or DSL service for $30? Answer: not that many.

Even if FiOS was selling like Hotcakes they still would not continue to expand. Because they are not happy with only a 10% to 15% profit margin. They want to get the 25% to 35% profit margins like they do with Verizon Wireless.

elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY
reply to elray
Because a vast majority of people don't get just internet. They get 2 play or 3 play. Taken as just internet, FIOS pricing sucks compared to TWC in my area.

If you look at my block of 20 houses, 17 have converted to FIOS which used to be 100% TWC before this, so I would say it's working in my cherry picked neighborhood.

I pay $107 w/ taxes for the 3 play and get 25/25 which is good, but if google offered me $120, I'd be gone in a second. I could port the phone service in a minute for short cash.

FIOS penetration sits about 33%. It will need to get in the 40's for more investment because TWC is launching packages to pick off customers. Welcome to competition. The beneficiaries: The Customer.

Verizon will never sell off FIOS because they will use it to connect to businesses, which is the real money maker. Residential is a nice to have....

silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA
reply to aaronwt
The profit margin on FiOS could be very good, but as long as people continue to use DSL/copper it will remain low. Verizon needs to move everyone over to FiOS and off of copper because it is pricey to maintain a copper network. But they can't, so it continues to sit. If they could future FiOS expansion would not be out of the question.


Oh_No
Trogglus normalus

join:2011-05-21
Chicago, IL
I dont get this comment.
Verizon owns the dsl/copper lines and the fiber lines.
If they upgrade an area for fios they can force people to switch by turning off the copper.


Yello

@144.70.2.x
Verizon's legacy wireline business is regulated and publicly funded via USF. They cannot just force people onto FiOS abandon the copper.

tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
reply to silbaco
said by silbaco:

The profit margin on FiOS could be very good, but as long as people continue to use DSL/copper it will remain low. Verizon needs to move everyone over to FiOS and off of copper because it is pricey to maintain a copper network. But they can't, so it continues to sit. If they could future FiOS expansion would not be out of the question.

Verizon hasn't paid more than lip service to actually offering 1gigabit and beyond to it's FIOS customers. Profit margins are dependant upon the consumer's income which at last check is getting squeezed tighter than a ponzi scheme bank acount after the money is laundered (stolen).

In 1996 dollars, you should have been able to afford $99 triple play services inclusive of all taxes & fees as a mid-grade tier. in 2012's dollars that's pushing $149.. What was the google's dual play price $140? This includes gigabit symmetric.

While the price should have gone up.. the verizon mid tier should reflect easily 100 - 300 megabits symmetric by now.

One last thing, there was at least a 2 year period of price deflation from 2008 - 2010 where all consumer prices were on a freeze or decline (if you saw prices increase you were getting gouged).

Glad to see Google fiber is now live instead of vaporware.. many people were speculating the first actual customer served would be well into next year.. (q1-2013)


jfleni

@bhn.net
reply to IowaCowboy
And Boston! And Manchester NH! And NYC! And Hartford! Etc, Etc.....

In most of those places, customers are getting ripped of by "Bedpan Networks" (or something similar) which gives barrels of money to the pols (GIMME), and nearly always abysmally bad, or very high-priced service to the public!

No wonder the FTC is on Google's case. They are queering the contribution (read bribe!) flow!

We need an "Interstate Network" system, where all companies and individuals, not just monopolies and their victims, can buy the services they need and want! It would not be much different than competing trucking companies.

elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink
reply to Yello
said by Yello :

Verizon's legacy wireline business is regulated and publicly funded via USF. They cannot just force people onto FiOS abandon the copper.

Actually, they can, unless the FCC reverses itself.

But revisiting forbearance would not solve anything.
The problem is the underlying cost of FTTH - a price most consumers are unwilling to pay. Re-regulating telco would result in higher, not lower prices overall.

TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·MegaPath
reply to Yello
They could force you over to FiOS. AT&T did this in areas where they built out FTTH under Project Lightspeed. and only the dial-tone is regulated, not the Internet. They could also pull an AT&T and go to each state and ask them to de-regulate their business and remove MTS if the customer bundles- which states are doing for AT&T.

TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH
reply to elefante72
VZ has already sold off FiOS networks. And they only recently started using it for Ethernet- which isn't even an option currently.


skuv

@rr.com
reply to Oh_No
said by Oh_No:

I dont get this comment.
Verizon owns the dsl/copper lines and the fiber lines.
If they upgrade an area for fios they can force people to switch by turning off the copper.

Not unless they are going to charge the same price for FIOS internet and phone as they are for DSL/POTS to the people they forced over.


skuv

@rr.com
reply to TBBroadband
said by TBBroadband:

VZ has already sold off FiOS networks. And they only recently started using it for Ethernet- which isn't even an option currently.

That's because it was part of a system that they no longer wanted, but had to get rid of the piece with FiOS as part of the deal. Verizon wasn't specifically looking to sell off FiOS as the OP here suggested they should do.

And Frontier, who owns that portion of the FiOS network, has raised prices and installation fees on it in an apparent effort to kill it off.

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to elray
Yeah, it's penetration into the market has been poor. It just shows the utter stupidity of people. Verizon builds an incredible fiber network with super-fast internet, and people still have cable or DSL? What on earth are they thinking?

elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink
said by BiggA:

Yeah, it's penetration into the market has been poor. It just shows the utter stupidity of people. Verizon builds an incredible fiber network with super-fast internet, and people still have cable or DSL? What on earth are they thinking?

Spending an extra $40-50 a month for a service level you don't need.
Who is utterly stupid?

No insult intended - but the bottom line is a strong majority of consumers don't have a need for "super-fast internet" beyond what cable is already offering at half the entry price.

We were fine with 1Mbit DSL. In fact, we were fine with 256K DSL.
Today we have 10Mbit cable for $30/month, which yields 25Mbits, though we are considering dropping to the new 3M tier @ $20/month.
(Modem rental nonsense not withtstanding - that will be resolved this month.)

Why on earth would we contract with Verizon for $75+/month?

TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·MegaPath
reply to skuv
Verizon could have kept those FiOS Networks. But the reality would have been, why support 1 single network in Indy when the entire state would be sold? It would cost them more money it wasn't about being part of a system, if that was the case Cali which was never BA would have been sold off since it was part of GTE.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to tmc8080
said by tmc8080:

verizon mid tier should reflect easily 100 - 300 megabits symmetric by now.

Why? Based on what?
said by tmc8080:

One last thing, there was at least a 2 year period of price deflation from 2008 - 2010 where all consumer prices were on a freeze or decline (if you saw prices increase you were getting gouged).

The real rate of inflation is what matters, not the CPI fluff numbers that get thrown around. I doubt there was any more "gouging" going on than normal during the last few years.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to elray
said by elray:

No insult intended - but the bottom line is a strong majority of consumers don't have a need for "super-fast internet" beyond what cable is already offering at half the entry price.

And along those lines, many consumers don't care about the transmission medium, only that it works. It's typically us geeks that get all excited about fiber. As you've suggested, cable can relatively easily match current FiOS offerings and price tends to win out for most consumers.

Kamus

join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX
reply to openbox9
said by openbox9:

Why? Based on what?

Based on the fact that we're talking about an information technology.

Here's an example of an information technology you might be familiar with:

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore's_law

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
That doesn't answer my question.

Kamus

join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX
said by openbox9:

That doesn't answer my question.

It does answer it.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
No.

elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink
reply to openbox9
said by openbox9:

said by elray:

No insult intended - but the bottom line is a strong majority of consumers don't have a need for "super-fast internet" beyond what cable is already offering at half the entry price.

And along those lines, many consumers don't care about the transmission medium, only that it works. It's typically us geeks that get all excited about fiber. As you've suggested, cable can relatively easily match current FiOS offerings and price tends to win out for most consumers.

Moreover, for most consumers, Cable doesn't need to match Fiber speed.
Contrary to the geek mantra repeated here 10x daily, no one needs those speeds.

While with the introduction of 4K HD, the "want" for such speeds could experience an uptick, again, few are going to pay a premium for it, and it isn't going to happen under net-neutrality rules. Any uber-bandwidth will be local-only for the MSO.

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
Considering that a lot of people still don't understand why HD is so important, I'm not counting on a lot for UHD. Plus, we still have a ways to go in terms of getting to 1080p and reducing the quality hit that compression introduces.

elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink
said by BiggA:

Considering that a lot of people still don't understand why HD is so important, I'm not counting on a lot for UHD. Plus, we still have a ways to go in terms of getting to 1080p and reducing the quality hit that compression introduces.

UHD will happen. But it will be a premium home-theater product only, until such time as someone (Sony, Microsoft, Apple) chooses to pony/partner up for the last-mile delivery.

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
I don't think we will see any linear delivery to the home. Of course people with high-bandwidth connections will have at least a small amount of content out there on the global interwebs, but the domain on UHD will largely be limited to discs, which are a dying breek for most anyways. Even if I had a UHDTV, I'd probably use streaming 1080p before I bothered with a Blu-ray with UHD. And most people are fine with 720p, if that.


Curly McLain

@myfairpoint.net
reply to IowaCowboy
said by IowaCowboy:

Maybe if we give Google the perks and incentives that AT&T/Bell System was given, maybe they'll expand it to a national monopoly on broadband (fiber).

...they've gone about as fur as they can go...

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=wumfOPop5zA