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rustydusty

join:2009-09-29
Red Deer, AB
reply to Waffle

Re: [Windows] Help with Office Network (T1)

We have 6 bonded T1's and it struggles during the exchange with 13 VM's across 2 ESXi hosts, 40 workstations and various phone and tablets. We've upgraded to 30Mb fiber at our new location for this reason.


HELLFIRE
Premium
join:2009-11-25
kudos:18
reply to Waffle

@cramer
Thanks for the link man, adding it to my collection.

@mozerd
...so you're also a member of the "engineer it with x + 50% for best results" school as well?
I'll definately keep your experiences in mind for future reference though.

Regards



PeeWee
Premium
join:2001-10-21
Madera, CA
reply to Waffle

Trouble free=
2 t1 lines to seperate VOIP and data



mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
Premium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON

1 recommendation

reply to HELLFIRE

HELLFIRE, experience has no substitute -- Inexperience carries significant cost and risk. I've forgotten how many botched up installations I've had to redo based on Telco geezers believing that they follow specs to the letter and refuse to adapt to reality.

With VoIP I've leaned that 80Kbps full duplex does not cut it --- 128Kbps full duplex works very nicely each and every time especially under load of concurrent usage.
--
David Mozer
IT-Expert on Call
Information Technology for Home and Business



shdesigns
Powered By Infinite Improbabilty Drive
Premium
join:2000-12-01
Stone Mountain, GA
Reviews:
·EarthLink
·Comcast
·Atlantic Nexus
reply to cramer

said by cramer:

»www.cisco.com/en/US/tech/tk652/t···e2.shtml

64K is the CODEC sampling rate. There are more bits necessary to actually transmit it.

The sampling rate of nearly all the codecs is 8K samples/sec.

As 7.11 uses 8 bits per sample, the CODEC bit rate is 64kbps.
--
Scott Henion

Embedded Systems Consultant,
SHDesigns home - DIY Welder

cramer
Premium
join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
kudos:8
reply to HELLFIRE

»www.cisco.com/en/US/tech/tk652/t···e2.shtml

64K is the CODEC sampling rate. There are more bits necessary to actually transmit it.


HELLFIRE
Premium
join:2009-11-25
kudos:18
reply to mozerd

Hey mozerd, curious where some of your numbers came from.

IIRC, VOIP typically uses either the G711 (64kbps/call) or G729 (8kbps/call) codec. Assuming the OP is using G711,
64kbps/call x 5 phones = 320kbps, then x 2 for the bidirectional; not sure where you're pulling the 128kbps from.

Also IIRC T1 is rated for 1.544Mbps, so bidirectional would be 3.088Mbps.

Either case, I agree with your assessment that if other data-intensive traffic is crossing the wire at the same time
as the calls, then OP needs to rethink the setup.

Regards



mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
Premium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON

1 recommendation

reply to Waffle

Your VoIP requires that you reserve 640 Kbps of bandwidth full duplex. In view that its a T1 you do have control of both ends via the Samsung UBIgate 1000 and its QoS capability. The VoIP should be on a segregated subnet dedicated to VoIP. How do I arrive at 640Kbps? each VoIP phone will require 128Kbps full duplex and I assume that your office phones will all be active at the same time. Since your T1 provides 1.544 Mbps, full duplex and you need to reserve 640Kbps for VoIP that now leaves you with 600Kbps +/- full duplex available for data traffic. For typical text based mail [lacking graphic based attachments etc], surfing without streaming video the available bandwidth should be adequate. However if Video [YouTube, Graphics, etc..] is part of the mix then your data will crawl or freeze for the number of users you have.

IMO, you would be much better off with a good broadband ISP.
--
David Mozer
IT-Expert on Call
Information Technology for Home and Business



billaustin
they call me Mr. Bill
Premium,MVM
join:2001-10-13
North Las Vegas, NV
kudos:3
reply to Waffle

said by Waffle:

...

Oh, and Megapath is our ISP. Worst customer service and installation I've ever had.

They wouldn't even run any of the cables to the office building. I had to rent a scissor lift, run the cat cable through the conduit to the phone/electrical room to our building, and do all of that myself. My suggestion is stay far away from Megapath!! That's just my opinion based on my experience.

Edit: Megapath is owned by SpeakEasy

Your statement is not real clear to me. None of the providers I have worked with will do any of your inside wiring, without charging you for it. Some will extend the T1 circuit and place a jack at the router location, if cabling is already in place. I have not had any pull new cable as part of a 'standard' install. The T1 gets installed at the demarc and the customer is responsible to get the wiring from there to where they want the router placed, unless a separate install agreement is made with the provider.

AsherN
Premium
join:2010-08-23
Thornhill, ON
reply to Waffle

T1 may be too slow for the network. Upgrade that, or get a slow DSL for VOIP. a voice channel maxes out at 64Kb. 5 VOIP phones is a whole 320Kb.


HELLFIRE
Premium
join:2009-11-25
kudos:18
reply to Waffle

said by Waffle:

I can't tell if the 1.5 T1 cannot handle all the traffic or if it's the way i have wired everything...

Get a monitoring solution on everything you can and start measuring. I would think the ubigate and a few other
devices would respond to SNMP polling. A program like MRTG / PRTG or solarwinds could be used to do the graphing.

I'd also look into some way of breaking down the individual traffic flows -- ie. how much is HTTP/S, VOIP, FTP, etc.
Worst case scenario, you'll have to insert a spare PC between your LAN proper and the Ubigate and run wireshark
to get top talker / protocol data.

Regards

Waffle

join:2012-11-13
Valencia, CA

1 edit
reply to Waffle

Having the phones connected to the T1 and the computer network connected to the DSL we are going to turn back on is something i originally thought too. I just wanted to cover all of my bases before i put that plan in motion!

I think that will be the solution to this problem.
Thank you so much everyone for responding

Oh, and Megapath is our ISP. Worst customer service and installation I've ever had.

They wouldn't even run any of the cables to the office building. I had to rent a scissor lift, run the cat cable through the conduit to the phone/electrical room to our building, and do all of that myself. My suggestion is stay far away from Megapath!! That's just my opinion based on my experience.

Edit: Megapath is owned by SpeakEasy


aryoba
Premium,MVM
join:2002-08-22
kudos:4
reply to Waffle

As others have mentioned, T1 simply cannot handle all of those traffic. Your best bet is to dedicate T1 for phones (voice) while using other connectivity for data such as 10 or 20 Mbps broadband (Cable Internet).


medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4
reply to Waffle

we have 3 T1's and it's still slow for us...

voip works right though, but the internet is slow...


cramer
Premium
join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
kudos:8
reply to Waffle

The line is WAY too slow if anyone is trying to do anything at all. Any QoS would have to be setup on the UBIgate and honored by the ISP (not likely.)

Bandwidth usage is easy enough to monitor from either the Linksys or Samsung. (assuming you have access to the ISP router.) Based on that router, you're either a Covad or Speakeasy customer? Both can (or used to) monitor your line as well.


Waffle

join:2012-11-13
Valencia, CA

I'm no expert and sadly and where i work i am the one that knows the most about computers and networking. Which isn't saying much.

I am really stumped and hope someone out there can give me insight as to what i am doing wrong. It could be something simple or complicated.

I can't tell if the 1.5 T1 cannot handle all the traffic or if it's the way i have wired everything...

I have 12 workstations , 1 server and 5 VoIP phones. I have 2 Switches networked into a linksys router ea4500 hooked up to a Samsung UBIgate 1000.
The internet seems to lag badly and when someone calls us, they are cutting in an out.

I have tried;
QoS for the IP phones
Changing Switches around.
Replacing cables.
and more...

Network Setup:
5 workstations 1 server > 16 port switch > Linksys ea4500
7 workstations > 8 port switch > Linksys ea4500
the ea4500 is linked to UBIgate 1000 which is connected to a T1 line.

Thank you very much for anyone who took the time to read this and thank you even more for anyone who cares to respond!