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TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28

1 recommendation

reply to Calmuser

Re: [DSL] VDSL - 25/7 Congestion

Gang,

We've been looking into this and received news today that a rate limit is in place on the AGAs links we have with Bell.

Last year when the CRTC decision for capacity based billing was put into effect we had to choose what capacity we wanted on all our links. We felt that asking to use a full gig link meant that we would surely not get full use out of each link since you can't really use a full gig.. So we chose to only do 900 on each one. At first there was no rate limit installed at all and there was no problem.. However, on our side, there's no limit and so it actually reads more than 900 on our usage graphs.. But not quite high enough to look like it was congested.. normally a congested link has a big flat part at the top of the graph.. we dont see that on the agas links.. Yesterday we decided to ask just in case they now had installed a rate limit.. And it turns out they have. So now that we know this, we'll ask them to bump it up to the full gig to help as quickly as possible. We also have a few more links on order that once those are in, we'll likely revert back to 900 on each link.

We have added links though since January.. 3 or 4 I believe.. We just turned another one up last month.. Another one was misconfigured also..

Now.. since the new year, the number of dsl subscribers has remained relatively flat. We sign up as many as there are who cancel. What's been happening is that lower speed users are switching to higher speeds. The net result is that with the higher speeds it means more usage for the same number of users. Basically our costs are going up faster than it makes sense to upgrade. Just adding that extra 100mbit to each Agas will cost us an additional $65k/month plus about $18k in onetime charges.

As it stands right now. We are loosing money on 60000 DSL users. DSL for us is a money looser.

So, yes. I'm reluctant to add more capacity. I'm even more reluctant to impose traffic shaping at peak times. I just can't stomach it.

Where we stand right now is that if the CRTC doesn't come out with the new rates soon. We will have no choice but to raise rates again. It's exactly as I had predicted last year. The only other alternative is if Bell themselves offers us concessions. I've explained to them that this would be the case if nothing was done. I'm expecting to hear from them at the end of the month. I don't know if or what they might do or say.. I don't know when the CRTC might act either. All I know is that I want to offer the service you guys are paying for.. We thought we were.. Now that we know its being rate limited.. We're correcting it.

I've been holding off on making this post since I didn't think there was major congestion but it looks like there is.

In contrast.. As an example. I mentioned in another thread about the notion of converting to aggregated from disaggregated and that it would be slightly more expensive.. If I take the same calculations and replace the CBB rate with the Bell rate. We would be loosing more than $500k/month on day one. If I'd use the Cogeco rate.. It would be even worse.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy



HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21

Ahhh, so thats the culprit... Thanks a lot Marc for the explanation...

Arent the rates under review by the CRTC?



TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28

said by HiVolt:

Ahhh, so thats the culprit... Thanks a lot Marc for the explanation...

Arent the rates under review by the CRTC?

Yes. Should be any time now... Hopefully before Christmas. Early next year I'd expect.

Bell doesn't want to loose these subs either though... They may also offer up a temporary off tariff agreement in the mean time.. I don't know.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21

Yeah, i hope so... VDSL is already pricey as is...


crazypants

join:2011-02-25
North York, ON
reply to TSI Andre

Andre,

Thank you for your response. As I mentioned in my review I didn't appreciate the fact that the buck was being pushed back to me. All this time in the private forum I did tests and showed there was and issue yet no one wanted to admit. That since no one else complained, obviously you are an isolated insistent. TSI staff here boast on their advert about "what can do with 300G". I laugh and wonder if I could even reach 200G, if all I count is peak time activities.

At least it is finally out in the open. This is what I asked of Pierre, that I wanted it to be brought forth that there is an issue. But TSI wanted it under the radar as to not scare off potential customers, which I've seen one on this thread mentioned they would hold off.

Also, I understand that you guys have a lot of things on the go but having to PM Martin every so often was getting tiring and I felt I had to escalate things.



TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
reply to HiVolt

Yup. I really feel like my back is against the wall. The modem rental, the modems crashing, dry loop fees, setup costs. DMC's.. The whole thing is basically a POS.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

said by TSI Marc:

Yup. I really feel like my back is against the wall. The modem rental, the modems crashing, dry loop fees, setup costs. DMC's.. The whole thing is basically a POS.

Maybe you should sell the company back to Rocky and go on sabbatical.


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28

I'm confident the rates will be fixed.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

said by TSI Marc:

I'm confident the rates will be fixed.

Hope so. I feel your pain.

p.s. Should I order my DSL speed bump now?


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
reply to crazypants

said by crazypants:

Andre,

Thank you for your response. As I mentioned in my review I didn't appreciate the fact that the buck was being pushed back to me. All this time in the private forum I did tests and showed there was and issue yet no one wanted to admit. That since no one else complained, obviously you are an isolated insistent. TSI staff here boast on their advert about "what can do with 300G". I laugh and wonder if I could even reach 200G, if all I count is peak time activities.

At least it is finally out in the open. This is what I asked of Pierre, that I wanted it to be brought forth that there is an issue. But TSI wanted it under the radar as to not scare off potential customers, which I've seen one on this thread mentioned they would hold off.

Also, I understand that you guys have a lot of things on the go but having to PM Martin every so often was getting tiring and I felt I had to escalate things.

It wasn't a case of wanting it under the radar as much as it was that we really didn't think it was that bad.. It looked liked adding the last gig link and fixing the one that was buggered would fix what little problem there was... Certainly we felt that restarting your modem and better balancing the Agas links, as we've always done.. Would solve it.

We've know it was tight though like I said.. We were running it tighter than we would like.. There's no doubt about that. But everybody is.. At these rates it may as well be pure gold...
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
reply to MaynardKrebs

said by MaynardKrebs:

said by TSI Marc:

I'm confident the rates will be fixed.

Hope so. I feel your pain.

p.s. Should I order my DSL speed bump now?

Haha.. I'm uh, laughing, um, at me!?
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
reply to MaynardKrebs

said by MaynardKrebs:

I feel your pain.

Tx though.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy

crazypants

join:2011-02-25
North York, ON
reply to TSI Marc

I see, I guess HiVolt and I should have gone to the open forum much earlier so it didn't go this far for so long. I honestly though that since the earlier thread was abandoned, that we were the only ones having this problem. What didn't make sense is that HiVolt and I live in two separate parts of the city. Also, didn't the TSI techs in the private forum mention this to you?



TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28

Yeah.. I was paying attention. I've been looking at network graphs for ten years... They don't look like they're completely saturated.. Plus like you say, not many were complaining.. Seemed like it wasn't a huge issue. Many links don't have an issue... Some only slightly, few have it bad. Adding the last link and fixing the one did help.. Just not enough.

Everybody is so focused on cable these days...

--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy



HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

Yup. I really feel like my back is against the wall. The modem rental, the modems crashing, dry loop fees, setup costs. DMC's.. The whole thing is basically a POS.

Ya, tell me about it...

Speaking of modems, have you had any discussion with Bell with regard to them providing you with any sort of spec that you could maybe go and find a modem that would work with these blasted Lucent Stingers? The Alcatel 7330's are not an issue as there are already several modems that work with them...

Or at the very least, for the users who are on the 7330's, that Bell should not have to provide the modem and dump the rental fee?
--



TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28

Sagemcom say they want to start selling them... *shrug* kinda pointless if these rates aren't fixed... It's all on hold for now.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


crazypants

join:2011-02-25
North York, ON
reply to TSI Marc

So the $52.99 is just not cutting it. Amazing that we pay $68 for 25/10 (mind you I only get barely 7 U/L) a month and you are losing money. As you said, it seems to be that the CRTC ruling is really not working out.

Also, I want to add that I have stuck it out with TSI all this time, since I shivered at the idea of going to the big bad wolves.



HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

Sagemcom say they want to start selling them... *shrug* kinda pointless if these rates aren't fixed... It's all on hold for now.

Oh, well at least thats somewhat good news... But the exact same model that Bell sells? Or maybe a simple bridge one without all that router/wireless garbage...


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
reply to crazypants

said by crazypants:

So the $52.99 is just not cutting it. Amazing that we pay $68 for 25/10 (mind you I only get barely 7 U/L) a month and you are losing money. As you said, it seems to be that the CRTC ruling is really not working out.

Also, I want to add that I have stuck it out with TSI all this time, since I shivered at the idea of going to the big bad wolves.

Yeah no worries. I'd rather you stay.. Even if I'm loosing money.. It's only temporary...

For the rates.. Just think about it.. There's a flat rate just for the line.. Then it's $23 per mbit... So at 25 mbit.. If you use your full 25 mbit at 10-11 PM each night all month long.. You will have cost us (literally) $575.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
reply to HiVolt

said by HiVolt:

said by TSI Marc:

Sagemcom say they want to start selling them... *shrug* kinda pointless if these rates aren't fixed... It's all on hold for now.

Oh, well at least thats somewhat good news... But the exact same model that Bell sells? Or maybe a simple bridge one without all that router/wireless garbage...

Think they mentioned simpler ones.. But yeah same company..
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable

said by TSI Marc:

Think they mentioned simpler ones.. But yeah same company..

Nice... I hope the CRTC can fix this crap, so we may live to see that happen lol... I'm all for it...

crazypants

join:2011-02-25
North York, ON
reply to TSI Marc

You will have cost us (literally) $575.



TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
reply to TSI Marc

It's also pretty much completely decimated our reseller network.. I think last I checked we were loosing money on more than 70% of the subs our reseller or wholesalers are selling.. Been trying to hold off doing anything crazy in the hopes that this all gets sorted soon...
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy



HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

For the rates.. Just think about it.. There's a flat rate just for the line.. Then it's $23 per mbit... So at 25 mbit.. If you use your full 25 mbit at 10-11 PM each night all month long.. You will have cost us (literally) $575.

Holy freakin smokes... just for an hour of full usage each day in peak time?

Thats utter insanity...
--



TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28

Yeah basically even the caps don't really make sense to be honest.

If its not at peak time.. It doesn't really matter.. It's not costing us a thing.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


kovy

join:2009-03-26
kudos:8
reply to crazypants

So maybe you should of waited things to get better before selling faster speed on DSL... like electronic box ?


morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
·ELECTRONICBOX
reply to crazypants

ya noticing a severe speed crunch tonight pushing 7-8 mpbs on my 25/10 ouch. if its costing money for me to be a subscriber something is messed up and tbh I primarily use my connection during primetime.. ugh Now i feel like i should switch so teksavvy is not losing money on me
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.



HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable

Yea huge diff between Bell & TSI logins tongiht...




--


crazypants

join:2011-02-25
North York, ON

wow, that just says it all.



HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to HiVolt

I have also just tried reconnecting several times, and tried to see if I land on a different gateway... I was only able to see two different addresses... There used to be more of these, no? or are these like the two bigass ERX's with a bunch of blades in them now?

206.248.154.104


206.248.154.122






206.248.154.104


as you can see huge variances... so the reconnect remedy isnt even working now...
--