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mlord

join:2006-11-05
Nepean, ON
kudos:13
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to TwiztedZero

Re: TekSavvy log keeping

said by TwiztedZero:

Up here I think they do have to work within the bounds set by Canadian law.

Which law would that be? This was discussed above.. no such law.

HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
reply to hm
said by hm :

said by HeadSpinning:

Currently, only Cable suffers from the lack of IP correlation to usage. On DSL, they can track down to the byte what every account uses.

Do you mean only Ontario cable? Or only Rogers?

I believe that applies to Ontario cable - Rogers and Cogeco.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net


TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5
reply to callous10
Personally, I like the approach the California ISP Sonic.net uses, they only retain records for Two Weeks. But then again they're the odd bird out. Up here I think they do have to work within the bounds set by Canadian law.
--
You see there is only one constant. One universal. It is the only real truth. Causality. Action, reaction. Cause and effect.
Twitter:Merv Chat:irc.teksavvy.ca


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to HeadSpinning
said by HeadSpinning:

Currently, only Cable suffers from the lack of IP correlation to usage. On DSL, they can track down to the byte what every account uses.

Do you mean only Ontario cable? Or only Rogers?


CliqueofOne

join:2003-08-22
Brantford, ON
reply to callous10
It's a dangerous myth to live by.

"If we aren't doing anything wrong, what do we have to fear?"

During WW2, there were certain groups of people who trusted that mantra right up until the steel door to the supposed showers slammed shut behind them.

»www.computerweekly.com/blogs/the···e-n.html
»www.wired.com/politics/security/···05/70886
»chronicle.com/article/Why-Privac···/127461/

HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
reply to callous10
Currently, only Cable suffers from the lack of IP correlation to usage. On DSL, they can track down to the byte what every account uses.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net


d4m1r

join:2011-08-25
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:

"So if you aren't doing anything wrong, you shouldn't be worried" raises it's ugly head again.

Do you keep tax records any longer than the required 7 years? If you do you're a fool - because if you have them and CRA finds out/asks for them in an audit, you have to hand them over. You expose yourself to liability based on a retroactive interpretation of the records.

Shred, purge, delete, overwrite should be your operating mantra at the first possible moment it is legally permissible to do so, for both your own, and customer, data.

If one would give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I would find something in them to have him hanged.
----Cardinal Richelieu

Couldn't have said it better myself. Well currently, they are not able to enforce the caps so by that logic, they shouldn't be keeping IP assignment data at all, unless they have to legally, right?

Even in the future though, IP assignment data should NOT be logged for billing purposes, as other things could also do that without also exposing big privacy risks.
--
www.613websites.com Budget Canadian Web Design and Hosting

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to HeadSpinning
"So if you aren't doing anything wrong, you shouldn't be worried" raises it's ugly head again.

Do you keep tax records any longer than the required 7 years? If you do you're a fool - because if you have them and CRA finds out/asks for them in an audit, you have to hand them over. You expose yourself to liability based on a retroactive interpretation of the records.

Shred, purge, delete, overwrite should be your operating mantra at the first possible moment it is legally permissible to do so, for both your own, and customer, data.

If one would give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I would find something in them to have him hanged.
----Cardinal Richelieu

HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
reply to d4m1r
Because the IP address is part of the log entry that show the usage - standard RADIUS record. I wouldn't go out of my way to keep some fields of a record for a certain amount of time and not others. Just doesn't make sense. Purge the entire record when it is no longer needed. There's no law AGAINST keeping the records for longer than required.

Why are you so worried about how long they keep your IP assignment data?
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net


d4m1r

join:2011-08-25
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to HeadSpinning
said by HeadSpinning:

They should keep at least a year of billing data available. ISPs don't log user activity (i.e. where they go) - but they do log IP address assignment date & times, as well as data transferred - these are all required for billing purposes.

How is logging who is assigned an IP for how long required for billing?

TSI should not be keeping logs of that longer than they absolutely have to by law.
--
www.613websites.com Budget Canadian Web Design and Hosting

HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
reply to d4m1r
They should keep at least a year of billing data available. ISPs don't log user activity (i.e. where they go) - but they do log IP address assignment date & times, as well as data transferred - these are all required for billing purposes.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net


d4m1r

join:2011-08-25
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to HeadSpinning
said by HeadSpinning:

There are all sorts of reasons to keep logs. One of which is for billing purposes. The same logs that show your IP address also contain your usage statistics.

Agreed, but I hope you aren't suggesting TSI go above and beyond the legal requirement to log it's users activity?

This is an important privacy issue and I am glad the OP brought it up.
--
www.613websites.com Budget Canadian Web Design and Hosting

HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
reply to callous10
There are all sorts of reasons to keep logs. One of which is for billing purposes. The same logs that show your IP address also contain your usage statistics.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
reply to MaynardKrebs
Sure.. we're keeping logs for 90 days.

If and when a new law comes into effect (it's not in effect now), we'll do what we have to do under the law.

I dont want to be dismissive about such important things. I do want to make it clear that I dont plan on spending my days in exchanges of legal matters.. of any kind.. regulatory or otherwise. I want to spend my days trying to help people get great internet access and great support...
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to TSI Marc
Marc,

My read of Bill C-11 is different than yours.
»www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications···=5697419

In the section entitled "Provisions Respecting Providers of Network Services or Information Location Tools", the Act states:

41.26 (1) A person described in paragraph 41.25(1)(a) or (b) who receives a notice of claimed infringement that complies with subsection 41.25(2) shall, on being paid any fee that the person has lawfully charged for doing so,

(a) as soon as feasible forward the notice electronically to the person to whom the electronic location identified by the location data specified in the notice belongs and inform the claimant of its forwarding or, if applicable, of the reason why it was not possible to forward it; and

(b) retain records that will allow the identity of the person to whom the electronic location belongs to be determined, and do so for six months beginning on the day on which the notice of claimed infringement is received or, if the claimant commences proceedings relating to the claimed infringement and so notifies the person before the end of those six months, for one year after the day on which the person receives the notice of claimed infringement.

--------------------

My take is that you need to hang onto records for a specific claim of infringement for a period of 6-12 month ONLY once you've received notice about that specific claim.

In other words, you can operate as you do today (30 days) but need to 'archive' the alleged infringer's IP info for 6-12 months once notified, ie. do a SQL 'select' on the offending IP and insert those results into an 'AllegedInfringers' table -- with triggers to automatically delete the data after the requisite period of time ...with automatic daily purges of "AllegedInfringers' table backups

I stand to be corrected on my interpretation of C-11, or if there's any other in-force legislation which requires you to retain logs for longer than zero (0) days.


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
reply to callous10
We currently keep logs for 90 days. We're in the process of trying to extend that to 6 months because the new copyright notice and notice law will require it.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy

callous10

join:2005-09-12
toron
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable

1 edit
Marc, why does Teksavvy keep logs on users for 2 years?? That is the longest period of time any ISP in North America keeps tabs on their users. Far above what any law enforcement is demanding in the US, let alone Canada.

Keeping logs for 6 months is understandable and reasonable. 24 months is basically saying Teksavvy will go far beyond what is required by law and inviting lawyers from the US to go on fishing expeditions to sue Teksavvy customers.

Many ISPs wipe their logs after 6months. I hope your company changes its policies. Other Canadian ISPs do not keep it for longer than a year. Eastlink keeps logs for 3 months. Not 24 months.