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Lonely

@Level3.net

Gen4 -or- Excede

Hello everyone!

I am trying to gather all knowledge I can before signing up for satellite internet for the first time. I was thinking to get Excede some time ago, then Gen4 sounded great, and then Excede sounded better... and that back and forth keeps going! I'm not sure which to go with, so I figured I would need to ask... at the moment I am leaning towards Excede.

Obviously you will want to know what are some of the things I do or would plan to do. P.S. - Nothing better than dial-up for me. Can't even use a cell phone here. We have TV through DISH so I suspect they will be able to point a Gen4/Excede satellite into the sky without problem :-P

-Large File Downloads (I can limit myself to keep within my monthly usage. Whichever of the two is better here will greatly persuade me.)
-Numerous Small File Downloads (PBEM games.)
-Online Gaming (I know ping won't be great, but generally some games will work and some won't. I've been on dial-up for 8 or more years, so I am used to that much. Whichever of the two is better here will greatly persuade me.)
-Steam (Would be nice to be able to actually use it.)
-Chat Programs (Video rarely and voice chat rarely, mostly just typing.)
-Xbox Live (Not to play games on, just to download content such as updates and add-ons.)
-Work Online (But that's not to say I need to use internet while working. Usually just some small file to download (100MB give or take) then I can do my work and send back an even smaller file)

Price is also important. With Gen4 I could get the middle package. With Excede only the cheapest package. Also I have been reading that Excede has free usage from 12AM to 5AM... which I am actually usually awake through (and if not then it can be download time). But is that just a special limited thing, or will it always be there?

Thanks

DrStrangLov

join:2012-03-28
kudos:1
Location, location, location...without knowing your general location, its all speculation.


Lonely

@Level3.net
Right! I knew I forgot something. I live near Peebles, Ohio. Zip code 45660. I don't know longitude/latitude if that's needed... but I could find it of course.

jpgr
WAR

join:2011-08-18
Clyde, OH
I have dsl only 1.5 downlod speed and I got exede 12 soley for the latenightfreezone and yes it will not go away . I get around 16meg download speed so on steam it is avg 2 meg download so I can download a 17 gig gme in 2 hours . I got cause I work 4 to midnight nd I am up all night anyways. I use teamspeak 3 with exede12 and can play WORLD OF CONFLICT online with VOIP so there is one game you can play . FPS games are hard to play but some games a 1 second delay is playable like total war games . but I would suggeat exede12 specially if your up at night for unlimited download . HD is cool tooo

Lonely5

join:2012-11-14
Peebles, OH
reply to Lonely
When I put my zip in at Exede.com it says... "Congratulations! Your address is eligible for Exede12, our super fast Internet service." I assume it's still possible with exact address that they could only offer Exede5?

17GB in 2 hours sounds delicious... I doubt I would have optimal speeds here, but even half of that would be nice.

Also I just realized I have been spelling it "Excede" instead of "Exede" doh...

silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA
said by Lonely5:

When I put my zip in at Exede.com it says... "Congratulations! Your address is eligible for Exede12, our super fast Internet service." I assume it's still possible with exact address that they could only offer Exede5?

17GB in 2 hours sounds delicious... I doubt I would have optimal speeds here, but even half of that would be nice.

Also I just realized I have been spelling it "Excede" instead of "Exede" doh...

You live in Ohio, so it will be Exede 12. Exede 5 is not available to those with Viasat-1 coverage which Ohio definitely has.

Lonely5

join:2012-11-14
Peebles, OH
reply to Lonely
Great to hear!

I think I will have to have a pole mount install... anyone know how much extra that costs? I can't imagine it would be very much.


wm4bama

join:2012-05-10
Goodwater, AL
said by Lonely5:

Great to hear!

I think I will have to have a pole mount install... anyone know how much extra that costs? I can't imagine it would be very much.

In Feb., 2009 I paid $100.00 for my pole mount...it depends on the installer you get...going rates now are more like $150, I think...

But ask him to place the pole as close to where your modem will be as possible...the shorter the coax run, the better..
--
Exede12, ViaSat-1, beam 342, Albuquerque Gateway, Denver AcceleNet servers


verizonlteda

@myvzw.com
Why would you pay $100 ? you can buy the poles at lowes and most hardware place's for for 10-20 bucks lol.


wm4bama

join:2012-05-10
Goodwater, AL
It's not just the pole...he has to dig (or augur) a deep hole, use two bags of cement, dig a trench to where it enters your house and bury the coax..

Believe me, it's well worth the money, plus it has to be done to WB/Exede specifications...

The pole has to be a certain gauge with anti-spin extensions on the bottom..
--
Exede12, ViaSat-1, beam 342, Albuquerque Gateway, Denver AcceleNet servers

JSheridan

join:2006-07-03
USA
reply to verizonlteda
said by verizonlteda :

Why would you pay $100 ? you can buy the poles at lowes and most hardware place's for for 10-20 bucks lol.

You can't buy these poles at Lowe's or any hardware store. They are very special and have to be approved for Exede/Wildblue use. They cost a lot and the shipping is also expensive. They're pretty heavy. Then there's the concrete, and the labor. $100 is a bargain. $150 is more what it's worth. Burying more than 25 feet of wire is extra.

Lonely5

join:2012-11-14
Peebles, OH
reply to Lonely
Well, I guess that will do. Dish had to put a pole in, so Exede will probably need to as well.

What about comparisons between Gen4 and Exede? Honestly I'm leaning towards Exede 100% and mainly due to the free download time. Someone fight against it, defend Gen4!

DrStrangLov

join:2012-03-28
kudos:1
said by Lonely5:

comparisons between Gen4 and Exede?

1. Economically, when LNFZ will be used, Exede. Hughes uses tokens, so feed the Hughes piggy bank.

2. Consistent bandwidth during primetime for non-download activities (P2P, programs, files, etc), unknown for both. Hughes previous behavior was to overload its beams, whereas, ViaSat has made a commitment not to overload their beams. Hughes has not made any public comments about not stuffing their beams.


verizonlteda

@myvzw.com
reply to JSheridan
Yes you can buy them at lowes i did for 10 dollars when i had the hn9000 on hughes not hard find lol.

Installers over charge for them. concert ? really ? 4.99 at lowes man you guys are nuts.

JSheridan

join:2006-07-03
USA
said by verizonlteda :

Yes you can buy them at lowes i did for 10 dollars when i had the hn9000 on hughes not hard find lol.

Installers over charge for them. concert ? really ? 4.99 at lowes man you guys are nuts.

You bought a thin walled fence post at Lowe's. Not only are they not approved but they are not nearly strong enough unless you do crummy work and don't care if it falls over. And yea, concrete is $4.99 a bag, times 3 bags is $15 plus tax right there. The poles are wholesale about $50, drill a hole through it with a high speed drill and expensive bit and put a big bolt so it doesn't spin. That costs money too. And I'm sure you would go shop for all this stuff, and then dig a hole in rocky soil and mix and pour the concrete for free? I won't. Like I said, $100 is a real bargain and it's worth at least $150 if done right.


Sircolby450

join:2005-11-26
reply to DrStrangLov
said by DrStrangLov:

ViaSat has made a commitment not to overload their beams. Hughes has not made any public comments about not stuffing their beams.


--
Windows 7 Pro 64-Bit / Core i5 - 760 @4GHz / EVGA GTX 680 2GB / 12GB DDR3 RAM / Samsung 830 256GB SSD

zeddlar

join:2007-04-09
Jay, OK
Reviews:
·exede by ViaSat
reply to JSheridan
The last pole set I had was actually heavy pipe done by HN but before that it was always rigid conduit which you can buy at lowe's for a lot less and it will hold up just fine. I had a commercial .98 HN dish mouted on rigid conduit for 6 years in Oklahoma storm winds and it never lost 1% of signal strength in all those years. If it can stand to hold that big dish with 3 foot in ground and 7 foot above ground then these little dish's are not even going to challenge it to move. And if you do use rigid conduit and you have any doubts about it's strength thewn just fill it with concrete while you are at it. That will only take 1 bag of concrete and the end result will be stroger even than the pipe.
--
HughesNet elite plan/.74 dish w/1watt trans. / 9000 modem / 3 computers on a linksy's wired network

JSheridan

join:2006-07-03
USA
said by zeddlar:

The last pole set I had was actually heavy pipe done by HN but before that it was always rigid conduit which you can buy at lowe's for a lot less and it will hold up just fine. I had a commercial .98 HN dish mouted on rigid conduit for 6 years in Oklahoma storm winds and it never lost 1% of signal strength in all those years. If it can stand to hold that big dish with 3 foot in ground and 7 foot above ground then these little dish's are not even going to challenge it to move. And if you do use rigid conduit and you have any doubts about it's strength thewn just fill it with concrete while you are at it. That will only take 1 bag of concrete and the end result will be stroger even than the pipe.

Dude, that ain't approved. We don't fool around with rube goldberg set-ups. We use approved materials and do jobs at least to spec and usually better than spec. We've done literally hundreds and hundreds of Wildblue/Exede installs and can't afford to mess around with unapproved junk. The require a certain heavy duty pole, we use it. They require a minimum of 3 bags of concrete and we use that, etc., etc. All these 'opinions' about the fence poles and electrical conduit are amusing but they're all UNAPPROVED.

Lonely5

join:2012-11-14
Peebles, OH
reply to Lonely
Thanks for all the replies. I know enough about poles now, I should have no problem starting a strip club with solid stable poles that won't fall down when the girls twirl around them. Then I can take my money made, move to town, and get something better than Gen4 or Exede!

Joking aside, an opportunity has arisen for me. I may be able to move to town soon and not have to get either. However, if I don't I will go with Exede. Cheers!


geotech

@184.21.193.x
reply to JSheridan
If one of my customers complains too much about how little i am asking then i ask them if they want to save $25 labor,
then i hand them the shovel. After the first rock they are willing to tip me even more for the back breaking work.
If that doesnt work, then I have them drive 25 miles to pick up the concrete for my next job.

said by JSheridan:

said by verizonlteda :

Yes you can buy them at lowes i did for 10 dollars when i had the hn9000 on hughes not hard find lol.

Installers over charge for them. concert ? really ? 4.99 at lowes man you guys are nuts.

You bought a thin walled fence post at Lowe's. Not only are they not approved but they are not nearly strong enough unless you do crummy work and don't care if it falls over. And yea, concrete is $4.99 a bag, times 3 bags is $15 plus tax right there. The poles are wholesale about $50, drill a hole through it with a high speed drill and expensive bit and put a big bolt so it doesn't spin. That costs money too. And I'm sure you would go shop for all this stuff, and then dig a hole in rocky soil and mix and pour the concrete for free? I won't. Like I said, $100 is a real bargain and it's worth at least $150 if done right.


JSheridan

join:2006-07-03
USA
Seems like nowadays everybody is entitled to fair pay except sat techs. According to all these 'experts' on the internet we're not only supposed to work for free but now we're supposed to buy the extra parts and supply them for free too.

said by geotech :

If one of my customers complains too much about how little i am asking then i ask them if they want to save $25 labor,
then i hand them the shovel. After the first rock they are willing to tip me even more for the back breaking work.
If that doesnt work, then I have them drive 25 miles to pick up the concrete for my next job.

said by JSheridan:

said by verizonlteda :

Yes you can buy them at lowes i did for 10 dollars when i had the hn9000 on hughes not hard find lol.

Installers over charge for them. concert ? really ? 4.99 at lowes man you guys are nuts.

You bought a thin walled fence post at Lowe's. Not only are they not approved but they are not nearly strong enough unless you do crummy work and don't care if it falls over. And yea, concrete is $4.99 a bag, times 3 bags is $15 plus tax right there. The poles are wholesale about $50, drill a hole through it with a high speed drill and expensive bit and put a big bolt so it doesn't spin. That costs money too. And I'm sure you would go shop for all this stuff, and then dig a hole in rocky soil and mix and pour the concrete for free? I won't. Like I said, $100 is a real bargain and it's worth at least $150 if done right.


greenwood903

join:2012-11-20
Wilmer, TX
reply to Lonely
I started installing exede a few months ago. Up till now, I would have never recommended sat internet. Here in the Dallas area we have been seeing 25-30 megs on exede. I would recommend it to anyone without the avail of cable or dsl.

neonjohn

join:2013-01-06
reply to Lonely5
said by Lonely5:

Well, I guess that will do. Dish had to put a pole in, so Exede will probably need to as well.

What about comparisons between Gen4 and Exede? Honestly I'm leaning towards Exede 100% and mainly due to the free download time. Someone fight against it, defend Gen4!

I can tell you how bad Gen4 is! We're an all-Linux shop with offices here in Tellico and San Diego. Been a Hughesnet customer for years. Had Gen4 installed last week. Shut me down almost completely. They're doing some sort of port 80 filtering that lets packets from browsers through but not port 80 http packets from things like SubVersion, Ubuntu Update Service (like windoze update service), Synaptics package manager (where one installs Ubuntu software from) and I'm not sure what else yet.

Breaking SubVersion is a disaster for us, as we use it not only for code versioning but also document and drawing management. I have a token windoze XP laptop, mainly so I can chkdsk SD cartridges after my camera corrupts them. I verified that SubVersion on windoze is also broken so it is not OS-specific

Reviewing the Hughsnet forum, this problem has existed since they rolled out Gen4 in November so apparently HNS has no intention of doing anything about it.

I came here to find out of Excede is doing any of the same stuff and to find out if Linux works OK with the service. Any comments in this regard are most welcome

Thanks
John
jgd@fluxeon.com

DrStrangLov

join:2012-03-28
kudos:1
reply to Lonely
said by Lonely5:

Linux works OK

I installed Linux Mint 14 the other day, updates/etc during install worked just fine for this Exede 5 user.

I have not tried to check for updates since then for this Linux version, but Windows updates work fine also.

A Tech

join:2008-11-10
reply to Lonely
In many areas of the country Gen4 has twice the available bandwidth as Excede. In others areas it is equal. I don't have a comparative map handy but you might want to consider this.

Kaosfury

join:2011-06-27
Altavista, VA
reply to Lonely
JSheridan is correct all the way, and sounds like a tech who does his job correctly.

pay the man $150 and get it done correctly.

DrStrangLov

join:2012-03-28
kudos:1
reply to A Tech
said by A Tech:

In many areas of the country Gen4 has twice the available bandwidth as Excede.

Just as a point of reference - I'm not aware of one ISP who buys extra bandwidth when it is not needed. These providers, with bean-counters fully in control of expenses, may buy more bandwidth when needed.

To my awareness, its been this way since early 90s when consumer ISPs came about.

neonjohn

join:2013-01-06
reply to Lonely
said by Lonely5:

Hello everyone!

I am trying to gather all knowledge I can before signing up for satellite internet for the first time. I was thinking to get Excede some time ago, then Gen4 sounded great, and then Excede sounded better... and that back and forth keeps going! I'm not sure which to go with, so I figured I would need to ask... at the moment I am leaning towards Excede.

Thanks

Two weeks ago I upgraded my Hughsnet system to Gen4. Today I cancelled the service and scheduled Exede to be installed Thursday. The time between the two events has been spent pulling out my hair, trying to figure out why most everything broke, dealing with hour hold times and off-shore tech support, "we don't support Linux" BS and so on. Here's the deal.

I live in a very remote fishing resort. I'm a semi-retired engineer who does most of his work over the net so reliable internet service is absolutely vital. Hughesnet fulfilled that role until the upgrade.

The first thing I noticed is that SubVersion was broken. (this is a revision control system for documents and code for you non-techies). It would proceed partially through a commit but then fail 100% of the time.

Then I noticed that my Ubuntu Linux update service (like windows update, only better) wasn't working. I had 156 MB of updates backed up. Looking at the logs I saw that the problem was that the update server was returning "connection refused" and "authentication failure" during each attempt.

Finally I noticed that the Synaptics package manager (program installer) was broken, with authentication errors.

I spent days trying everything I could think of (different computers, windows vs Linux, etc). My hosting service where my SubVersion server is located was wonderful (dreamhost.com - love those guys) in helping me by resetting my Apache server, looking at logs, etc. They could see nothing wrong on their end.

Then while prowling the Hughesnet support forum, I found a note that suggested the web accelerator might be the problem. Fortunately I found this thread

»community.myhughesnet.com/hughes ··· n_myself

That showed me how to turn off the accelerator. I did so. Viola! All the problems went away but now web browsing was as slow as with the previous generation system.

Knowing what to look for I searched the net and discovered that their accelerator has broken:

SubVersion
Ubuntu update service
Ubuntu Synaptics
TiVo TV guide updates
X-box Live
Steam
Opera web browser (that might be fixed now)
and a few others that I can't recall now.

In other words, just about everything that uses Port 80 except for web browsing is broken. On the Hughesnet support site I found that this has been an issue from the beginning and that back in November a Hughesnet employee promised a fix rollout "the next day". Obviously that didn't happen.

Here are some other issues that swing the pendulum toward Exede.

Data metering: Hughsnet meteres uploads; Execed does not
Late night FAP-free period: Hughsnet eliminated the unlimited period and now only allows 15 additional GB. Exede does not meter the FAP-free period.
FAP Free time interval: Hughesnet - 2 - 7AM EST. Exede - midnight -5AM local time.

The Hughesnet usage meter does not work. The meter on my modem's built-in website shows 100% available bandwidth. The meter on the Hughesnet site shows 15%.

Hughesnet claims in their support forum not to meter the first month to allow for people coming off dial-up who may have a LOT of upgrading to do. This is a lie. My account was metered from day one.

I have spent several hours tonight searching the web looking for similar problems with Exede. I have found nothing. About the only complaints I've found so far are about the off-shore support center and that they reduced the data cap with this new program.

My Exede install is Thursday. I'll report back after I've had a few days' experience.

John
jgd@fluxeon.com

OldSatUser

join:2012-05-10
Fresno, OH
I am not sure where you got some of your information, but it is not all correct.

Exede metering - does monitor uploading and downloading combined.

Viasat support for Exede - based in the United States. Not located overseas.

Be advised it is CRITICAL to get a proper install of the Exede hardware done by the technician. Failure to do so can result in a number of problems including performance issues.

Recommended that once the install is complete, note the stats from the modem status page and report them here for review. Also, have the tech run a speed test (testmy.net) before he leaves. Speeds should be as advertised right away. If not...don't take any excuse from the tech until you are satisfied and review everything with the install.

For more information on Exede...you can visit there support website at »wildblueworld.com/forum/index.ph ··· ndex.php. You will find a lot of good and helpful information there.

Good luck with everything!

neonjohn

join:2013-01-06
said by OldSatUser:

I am not sure where you got some of your information, but it is not all correct.

Exede metering - does monitor uploading and downloading combined.

Just going by what I was told by a barely understandable, heavily foreign accented guy on the other end of the support line.

Viasat support for Exede - based in the United States. Not located overseas.

OK, I made an assumption based on this one contact. My bad. Glad to hear the support center is in the US.

Thanks for the other advice. I will certainly do as you recommend and test the system while the tech is here.

John
--
John DeArmond
Chief Engineer,
Fluxeon.com