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PToN
Premium
join:2001-10-04
Houston, TX
reply to tomdlgns

Re: DNS - A, MX and PTR records - Silly quesiton

I am not worried about spooling at this time. DNSMadeEasy does offer a MX back up server that will do just that. But i dont feel the need for it at this moment.

Thanks.

tomdlgns
Premium
join:2003-03-21
Chicago, IL
kudos:1
reply to PToN
said by PToN:

We use Poxtfix + Dovecot and it is not a clustered system.

At this moment we are just concerned about being able to reach the mail server via any of the ISPs, not trying to sync them up.

later this year or Q1 2013 we will have a secondary email server, once we add the second mail server they will be setup to store date in a clustered storage and Dovecot will handle the syncing part.

Still working out all the details for adding a second server so what will exactly be on place i am not 100% sure yet.

I just wanted to do the DNS part as thanksgiving is coming up.

Thanks.

understood.

maybe someone else can chime in on the MX record portion.

never got an answer back regarding the spooling, that might solve all/part of your problem (although, not free like the DNS/MX configuration).


PToN
Premium
join:2001-10-04
Houston, TX
reply to tomdlgns
We use Poxtfix + Dovecot and it is not a clustered system.

At this moment we are just concerned about being able to reach the mail server via any of the ISPs, not trying to sync them up.

later this year or Q1 2013 we will have a secondary email server, once we add the second mail server they will be setup to store date in a clustered storage and Dovecot will handle the syncing part.

Still working out all the details for adding a second server so what will exactly be on place i am not 100% sure yet.

I just wanted to do the DNS part as thanksgiving is coming up.

Thanks.

tomdlgns
Premium
join:2003-03-21
Chicago, IL
kudos:1
reply to Steve
ok, but were you correcting something i posted or adding more information?

i just copy/pasted from the website and included a link.

tomdlgns
Premium
join:2003-03-21
Chicago, IL
kudos:1
reply to PToN
is the mail server an exchange server?

if so, is it clustered?

i don't have any experience with exchange clustering/multiple exchange servers on the same network/organization.

is your main concern the second ISP (it sounds like right now it is)? or are you going to try to get server 1 to sync with server 2 in case one of those go down? this also looks to be the case since you are purchasing a second mail server.


Steve
I know your IP address
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Foothill Ranch, CA
kudos:5
reply to tomdlgns
said by tomdlgns:

sorry, you lost me.

When the final mailserver is back up, it can phone home to the backup (via port 25/tcp) and use the ETRN command that essentially says "This would be a great time to scan your outgoing queue", at which time it presumably finds that it can consummate the final delivery.

No out-of-band mechanism required.

Steve
--
Stephen J. Friedl | Unix Wizard | Security Consultant | Orange County, California USA | my web site

tomdlgns
Premium
join:2003-03-21
Chicago, IL
kudos:1
reply to PToN
is this due to cost or never had a need for it?

i would consider this.

for email spooling, email scanning for virus and spam it only costs me 3.00 per user per month.

worth every penny, IMO.

also, alias addresses for users do not count against the total count (i confirmed with my rep, but things might have changed, not sure).


PToN
Premium
join:2001-10-04
Houston, TX
reply to tomdlgns
No, we dont have anyone doing spooling for us. We are switching to DNSMadeEasy and their default TTL is 1800, i may try a lower one once we do the switch and then set it back to their default.

tomdlgns
Premium
join:2003-03-21
Chicago, IL
kudos:1
reply to Steve
said by Steve:

said by tomdlgns:

The idea is that the servers listed as secondary MX servers have some out-of-band way of knowing when the primary servers are back online.

ETRN is an in-band way of knowing this.

sorry, you lost me.

tomdlgns
Premium
join:2003-03-21
Chicago, IL
kudos:1
reply to tomdlgns
does anyone do email spooling for you? if not, look into it. we have a company that does email spooling along with virus/spam filtering. our MX records point to their servers and they have to records, set at diff priorities.

i dont need to worry about which ISP i am using (my office has two ISP connections) the service we subscribe to looks for port 25 to be open, it doesnt care which ISP connection it sends it to, i just need to make sure i have both static WAN addresses listed in their portal (which i do) those are the only IPs they ping/see if they are online before they attempt to deliver mail.

i recommend keeping your TTL values as low as your provider allows.

i use network solutions and the lowest setting is 3600.


Steve
I know your IP address
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Foothill Ranch, CA
kudos:5
reply to tomdlgns
said by tomdlgns:

The idea is that the servers listed as secondary MX servers have some out-of-band way of knowing when the primary servers are back online.

ETRN is an in-band way of knowing this.

tomdlgns
Premium
join:2003-03-21
Chicago, IL
kudos:1
reply to PToN
said by PToN:

Yes, i am trying to achieve connectivity on the event either ISP goes down.

yeah, i see what you are saying. I know that it will use the one with the lowest priority, but if i was to assign the same priority i would still get some timeouts (if the server is down) as some requests would be sent to down server, right?

Thanks.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MX_record#···ority.3F

Why have priority?
A common misconception about the MX preference ordering is that it is intended to increase the likelihood that mail may be delivered; however, merely having multiple MX records with the same preference provides this benefit (see below). Because the MX preference ordering specifies that some servers should be tried first, it is, if anything, a means of establishing load imbalance. Another common misinterpretation of MX preference ordering is that it is intended to provide a means of "failover" in the case of server overload. While it can be used that way, it is a poor resource management technique because it intentionally creates overload and does not fully utilize the available hardware. Assigning the same preference value to all of the available servers provides the same benefit and may even help avoid overload situations and thereby increase system throughput by decreasing latency.

The SMTP protocol establishes a store-and-forward network, and if a domain's mail servers are all offline, sending servers are required to queue messages destined for that domain to retry later. However, these sending servers have no way of being notified that a previously offline domain's servers are now available. The sending servers will only discover that the domain is available whenever delivery of the delayed messages is next attempted. The delay between when a domain's servers come online and when delayed messages are finally delivered can be anywhere from minutes to days, depending on the retry schedule of the sending servers. This is the problem that backup MX records are uniquely qualified to solve. The idea is that the servers listed as secondary MX servers have some out-of-band way of knowing when the primary servers are back online. Thus, they are a more useful place to queue messages when the primary servers are offline than the original sender's queue.


PToN
Premium
join:2001-10-04
Houston, TX
reply to tomdlgns
Yes, i am trying to achieve connectivity on the event either ISP goes down.

yeah, i see what you are saying. I know that it will use the one with the lowest priority, but if i was to assign the same priority i would still get some timeouts (if the server is down) as some requests would be sent to down server, right?

Thanks.

tomdlgns
Premium
join:2003-03-21
Chicago, IL
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to PToN
what are you trying to accomplish? email connectivity if your 1st ISP drops?

regarding your first scenario, i have never tried to pointing mail.domain.com to two separate IPs. i dont think this is a good idea.

what happens if 2.3.4.5 goes down? the email server will get a timeout/cant deliver/cant see the server online at that IP and will hold onto the mail and retry, i dont think it will auto fail it over to the 3.4.5.6 IP.

you are better off having mail1.domain.com point to 2.3.4.5 and mail2.domain.com point to 3.4.5.6

mail1 priority 1
mail2 priority 5


PToN
Premium
join:2001-10-04
Houston, TX
reply to PToN
Awesome, thanks.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to PToN
As for PTR records as they're for reverse DNS think of its a one PTR per IP.


PToN
Premium
join:2001-10-04
Houston, TX
Hello,

I At the moment we have the following:
@.      A   1.2.3.4
mail.   A   1.2.3.4
@.      MX  10 mail.domain.com.
 
And its reverse domain 
4.     PTR  mail.domain.com.
 

We have a secondary ISP that we would like to use to be able to reach the mail server. And here is where my doubts start:

I can do it 2 ways:

First: 1 MX record and multiple A records with the same name.
mail.domain.com.     A    2.3.4.5
mail.domain.com.     A    3.4.5.6
@.                   MX   10 mail.domain.com.
 

Second: Multiple MX records with the same priority.
@.                       MX   10 mail-mx1.domain.com.
@.                       MX   10 mail-mx2.domain.com.
mail-mx1.domain.com.     A    2.3.4.5
mail.mx2.domain.com.     A    3.4.5.6
 

At the moment we only have 1 email server, but we are working on getting a second server before year's end. Since thanksgiving is coming up, i would just want to take care of the DNS thing right now.

Whichever way i go, i will need a PTR record for each A record, correct?
1st
5.     PTR  mail.domain.com.
6.     PTR  mail.domain.com.
 

2nd:
5.     PTR  mail-mx1.domain.com.
6.     PTR  mail-mx2.domain.com.
 

I just would like to verify i have understood it correctly.

Thanks.