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analog andy

join:2005-01-03
Surrey, BC
reply to hm

Re: GTA is Full of Them - Another "My Rights Are More Impor

said by hm :

The more I think about it, the more I think that these barbers may be in the wrong. Earlier I was all for them but... In the great melting pot of society there has to be some tolerance from all sides.

If you open a business that serves the public then the current laws should stand as is. That is, no discrimination and tolerance must be preached. Otherwise don't be in a business that serves the public within Canada (except in Quebec).

Will they next refuse service to that man with a seeing eye dog because their faith regards dogs as unclean? Do we not preach tolerance for that in all public places? Is it not the law? Is this any different?

A public business isn't in their future.

I want to see a woman sitting in there waiting for her husband & then breastfeed her baby. Something tells me the sh*t would hit the fan. Yet stores lose all the time for this.

Yeah the more I think about it the more I think these barbers are in the wrong. Time to be tolerant of your current society or get out of Dodge. If your religion says you have to quit work and close shop, so be it.

And then this

said by hm :

Time to be tolerant of your current society or get out of Dodge.

So you can't make up your mind? Seems she wasn't tolerant of his religious believes so according to you she should get out of Dodge.

balur

join:2010-04-28
kudos:1

1 edit
Everyone has a right to their religious beliefs up unto the point that it harms another person.

She has a right to not be discriminated against.

But, I can't fathom how she was harmed here? Slightly inconvenienced maybe, but harmed?

As for discrimination? Maybe, but I don't see it any different from the Gyms that men can't go to. The barber got into a business with a specialty that he is comfortable with, shes asking him to do something that makes him uncomfortable... that isn't fair to him. The only harm shes suffered is the trip to a non male barbershop, maybe he should have given her cab fare.


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to analog andy
said by analog andy:

said by hm :

Time to be tolerant of your current society or get out of Dodge.

So you can't make up your mind? Seems she wasn't tolerant of his religious believes so according to you she should get out of Dodge.

It's not that I'm preaching non-tolerance of their religion, but rather when one comes into a society where everyone is treated equal and the same, you can't go opening public places of business then refuse services to certain people based solely on gender. There has to be an accommodation by the one serving the public in a public business that is open to the public.

I have seen this before, but I've only ever saw it in a mosque over in NDG where the women and men were segregated. And as someone else mentioned up above, one of those gyms that cater to women only.

Though I still think hiring someone else just for one woman to be a type of penalization and she should have to pay more for this service.

Anyhow this is only going through around Feb of next year so we have a few months to wait and see how this turns out.

PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms
Hmmm.

I can see where a professional masseur would only want to work on clients of their own gender.

Personal service fields are a little different, as I said, from bus companies or restaurants....

It is in personal service fields where gender discrimination may be allowed---provided it is for all women (or men) not just black women or white women or gays or straights or vegetarians or meat-eaters.

analog andy

join:2005-01-03
Surrey, BC
reply to hm
said by hm :

It's not that I'm preaching non-tolerance of their religion, but rather when one comes into a society where everyone is treated equal and the same, you can't go opening public places of business then refuse services to certain people based solely on gender.

Happens every day in men's and women's only fitness clubs. Sure its a "club" but as its a registered business they should have no right according to the law. I on the other hand have no problems with it.
said by hm :

There has to be an accommodation by the one serving the public in a public business that is open to the public.

There's also something called common sense and the right to go and do your business somewhere else.

If this was my wife we'd both see it as weird but hey if they don't want our business so be it.

said by hm :

Though I still think hiring someone else just for one woman to be a type of penalization and she should have to pay more for this service.

He offered to have someone else cut her hair. Sure it might have taken time but if no one in the neighbourhood want to break their religious beliefs shes shit out of luck that day or week until he gets in someone else.

I'd say to him just set up a private barber club for men and charge a registration fee. End of story.


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to PX Eliezer70
said by PX Eliezer70:

Hmmm.

I can see where a professional masseur would only want to work on clients of their own gender.

Personal service fields are a little different, as I said, from bus companies or restaurants....

It is in personal service fields where gender discrimination may be allowed---provided it is for all women (or men) not just black women or white women or gays or straights or vegetarians or meat-eaters.

Yeah. I guess I am flip-flopping on this issue.

On one hand I see a public service that should be open to the public.

On the other hand there are already public businesses, like the woman only gym for example, that only serve women.

Maybe you have a point when it comes to the personal care businesses.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to hm
said by hm :

I have seen this before, but I've only ever saw it in a mosque over in NDG where the women and men were segregated.

This sort of thing exists in just about all "ultra" conservative/orthodox sects of many religions. Check out an orthodox Jewish synagogue, or indeed many other religions which originated in the Middle East/Asian subcontinent. Women are treated as 'unclean' or worse - and in many instances as mere vessels for procreation - though in fairness most husbands do tend to treat their own wives reasonably well.

However, it is the act of treating women with disdain for religious or cultural reasons which leads down the path to 'accepted' practices never tolerated in western society of demanding blind obedience to males, female infanticide, selective abortion, female genital mutilation, and honour killings. Who here doesn't remember the case of the couple from Montreal who murdered their kids a few years back? Cultural attitudes and religious precepts are often intertwined and hard to separate. »www.globalnews.ca/timeline+shafi···ory.html

And just to set the record straight, I'm not calling the barber anything other than a religiously observant man who made a wrong decision in not cutting the woman's hair.

PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms
said by MaynardKrebs:

Check out an orthodox Jewish synagogue, or indeed many other religions which originated in the Middle East/Asian subcontinent. Women are treated as 'unclean' or worse - and in many instances as mere vessels for procreation - though in fairness most husbands do tend to treat their own wives reasonably well.

I don't think that in the barber's case, it is an issue of uncleanliness but rather of intimacy.