Reviews:
 ·Shaw
| reply to dirtyjeffer
Re: R.I.P. Twinkee? said by dirtyjeffer: said by zod5000:
I tend to think unions are both good and bad. The whole reason they started was because companies had bad working conditions, low wages etc.. (While making pretty big profits). I still think there's a use for unions today. There are still many companies making a killing but pay their employees sweet **** all.
the reality is, if a company doesn't pay very much money, that will be reflected in the workers they get...for example, if the company zod5000 pays its workers $15/hr, you will get "$15/hr type of workers"...if your positions require trades (etc), you will likely get first year or inexperienced workers...that will be reflected in your product or service...now, if the company zod5000 wants to offer the best product/service, part of which requires top tier staff, you offer more money when you hire, to attract better quality workers...that's how the real world works. I tend to disagree. I think corporations are more focused on profit than quality products. They want to make the biggest gap between production costs and sales that they can. That doesn't always result in wanting the best product made by the best workers. |
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Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
| said by zod5000:I think corporations are more focused on profit than quality products.
I'd say such a comment is erroneous as you're applying your ideology standpoint as a blanket statement against 'corporations' when it varies between company. Some companies need to put out a quality product for various reasons and other companies are proud to put out quality products and other companies have procedural standards to ensure they do so, especially corporations that produce ingredients used by other corporations.
I've been to large corporations where those motto banners they have on the wall are a widespread sentiment shared by everyone at the company from the top down.
I think the biggest problem we have is what a person considers when they think "corporation". Some have turned the word into something other than what it literally means. |
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 AnavSarcastic Llama? Naw, Just AcerbicPremium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
kudos:3 | reply to elwoodblues
Regardless there is no redeaming value to any of the crap products they produce. Good riddance! Tobacco companies please disappear next. |
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| reply to ekster
Now I know why I have seen facebook pics of my friends stacking up on the product.... |
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 IanPremium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:1
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| reply to DKS
said by DKS:Those referral fees were a great way to make money. Toronto District School Board had those kind of fees until recently.
"Making money"?. That's called legalized parasitic extortion.
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“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong |
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| reply to elwoodblues
"U.S. judge urges Twinkie maker and union to talk things out"
»www.thestar.com/business/article···ings-out |
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 dirtyjefferAnons on ignore, but not due to fear.Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON | reply to Thane_Bitter
said by Thane_Bitter:
DJ their starting offer was a 50% reduction in salary, hardly a reasonable starting point.
it was a 50% reduction in salary to standard assembly workers, not everyone...the skilled tradesmen there were offered something like $33/hr, down from $35/hr...the assembly workers (most of them) were your general "high school" educated "factory workers"...would it suck to go from $35/hr to $17.50...of course it would...but the union is the ones who pushed up general labour wages to trades people incomes...now none of them work there.
quote:
Now that they have closed the plant, built a new one (with some peachy local tax breaks) and cut their labour costs in half, they still sell the locomotives for the same price.
the new plant in Indiana was there for a year prior to London closing...many of the workers from London were transferred to Indiana to train the workers down there on how to do the work...as well, when the London plant originally opened, it took assembly jobs away from the Illinois plant (GM Diesel back in the day) to take advantage of the lower dollar at the time as well as help procure various government contracts.
we discussed all of this in the EMD thread earlier this year.
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People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
- George Orwell |
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dirtyjefferAnons on ignore, but not due to fear.Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON | reply to Thane_Bitter
said by Thane_Bitter:DJ their starting offer was a 50% reduction in salary, hardly a reasonable starting point. i was looking for it and found the offer:
»www.thecomingdepression.net/wp-c···2011.pdf
skilled trades were $34/hr, production workers (basic labour) were $16.50-$22/hr...as i said before, had the wages not ballooned over the years, perhaps they would all still have jobs...the cost of the trades wasn't the problem, it was the basic labour workers pay that was the deal breaker.
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People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
- George Orwell |
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 TLS2000Crazy CanuckPremium
join:2004-02-24
Mississauga, ON | While I won't dispute that these people were probably overpaid for what their skillset was, I'd like to see you take a cut in pay of 50% and tell me that you just had to suck it up for the good of the company.
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Tom |
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dirtyjefferAnons on ignore, but not due to fear.Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON | said by TLS2000:While I won't dispute that these people were probably overpaid for what their skillset was, I'd like to see you take a cut in pay of 50% and tell me that you just had to suck it up for the good of the company.
that's not what i was saying at all...i was simply saying that had their wages not got out of control in the first place, it is quite possible none of that would have happened...in the case of the EMD workers, perhaps if the regular labour workers were making $22/hr, they might still be there (doubtful, but possible)...if the offer for concessions was made, going from $22/hr to $17 isn't as big of a drop as going from $37 to $16.50...as well, if they were making $22/hr, it is quite possible there might be other opportunities for them to work elsewhere at or close to that pay...not at $37/hr though...those jobs no longer exist.
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People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
- George Orwell |
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| And their union, the caw had zero interest in negotiating such a precedent with the big 3 contracts about to expire.
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»libertarian.on.ca/ |
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| reply to dirtyjeffer
You are ignoring is the other changes in the contract which serverly cut or completley eliminated certain programs and benfits. EMD had no interest in keeping the plant, had the workers agreeed to the cut they still would have been out of work soon after. |
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dirtyjefferAnons on ignore, but not due to fear.Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON | said by Thane_Bitter:You are ignoring is the other changes in the contract which serverly cut or completley eliminated certain programs and benfits. EMD had no interest in keeping the plant, had the workers agreeed to the cut they still would have been out of work soon after.
the offer sheet i posted has the details of coverage...the coverages are what most would consider "somewhat average" for the private sector...but i don't disagree with you about the closing of the plant...that plant hasn't made a dime since the mid-80s...the fact it wasn't closed in the 90s is a bigger surprise than when it closed earlier this year.
and speaking of plant closures, depending on what happens with the upcoming contract negotiations, things could get tense at Cami.
»www.lfpress.com/2012/11/19/inger···-new-car
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People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
- George Orwell |
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 LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5 | reply to loosedobbs
They talked for 1 day and then called it quits. The judge just OK'd the breakup of Hostess.
»www.foxnews.com/us/2012/11/21/ju···+Text%29
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A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury. |
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 capdjqRIP my friendPremium
join:2000-11-01
Coastie | Even the makers of the Drug Companies such as the makers of Lipitor, Plavix and Crestor petitioned the Judge saying it would affect their sales.
I guess they were unsuccessful.
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Why is the time of Day with the slowest traffic called rush hour?
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 milnoc
join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:1 | There's already massive hoarding happening of the remaining Twinkies on store shelves.
Which means, even if we do have a nuclear war someday, there won't be a single Twinkie left before the war even starts! 
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Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com/live |
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 digitalfuturSees More Than ShownPremium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2 | reply to Linklist
Yep. With the brand names/trademarks sold off of the highest bidder to pay the secured creditors, and production almost certainly transferred to non-union bakeries. The Hostess name still has goodwill value.
A money-losing operation can't continue indefinitely, so a combination of revenue increase and/or cost cuts is required. The former was not possible in this case, so the latter was the only option. A hard lesson to learn for management and the unions. Short term pain for long term gain.
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Logic requires one to deal with decisions that one's ego will not permit.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke. |
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 GuspazGuspazPremium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:20 | reply to milnoc
said by milnoc:There's already massive hoarding happening of the remaining Twinkies on store shelves.
Which means, even if we do have a nuclear war someday, there won't be a single Twinkie left before the war even starts!
No, we'd be fine. The twinkie brand and recipe is owned by Saputo in Canada, who are unaffected by anything that happens in the US. Twinkies are still being made and sold in Canada.
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Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org |
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milnoc
join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:1 | Which means the All-American snack cake is now owned by a Canadian firm.
Coming soon: Twinkies with cheese curd filling! The only sponge cake that squeaks when you chew it!
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Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com/live |
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 eksterHi there.
join:2010-07-16
Lachine, QC
kudos:1 | Cheese curds and gravy? Mmm.... |
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