Topic 'Re: IPKall is good, but not CallCentric SIP' in forum 'VOIP Tech Chat' - dslreports.com

Re: IPKall is good, but not CallCentric SIP

Sat, 17 Nov 2012 00:24:40 EDT

rblizz posted :

said by ConstantineM:

I highly advise against putting CallCentric into the mix.

You've turned into a one issue crank, Constantine. Give it a rest.

Re: IPKall is good, but not CallCentric SIP

Sat, 17 Nov 2012 00:02:25 EDT

Davesnothere posted :

said by Trev:

said by ConstantineM:

I highly advise against putting CallCentric into the mix. Especially from a SIP-registration standpoint, their servers are highly unreliable,

Is there even anything left to beat of that poor unfortunate horse?

For every ConstantineM who highly advises against CallCentric, there are 20 forum regulars who will highly recommend them.

I see both sides' points here.

CallCentric has acknowledged (at least in this forum, thru Iscream) that the geo-redundancy and backup power limitations exist, and intention has also been stated that they will be seriously examining what improvements can be made, in what order, and how soon.

MY only comment to ConstantineM is that (s)he should take them at their word and give CC a brief 'time-out', to see what happens.

I have not read of his/her alleged past complaints against CC, nor their merit, though in principle, (s)he DOES have a point about the recent issues, IMNSHO.

But as I suggested above, let's all give CC a chance for a while, and see what they do after the small particulate content of the air comes to rest. :)

IPKall locations

Fri, 16 Nov 2012 15:33:07 EDT

ConstantineM posted :

said by ConstantineM:

said by PX Eliezer:

IPKall is housed in a single place

BTW, for what it is worth, there is actually no proof that IPKall is housed in a single place. It's my understanding that they have a presence at several COs; and as such, I would not be surprised if some of their numbers are serviced and terminated completely independent from others, meaning that should a single CO/DC go down, some other CO/DC would still continue to terminate at least some other numbers from other COs for at least half (etc) the customers.

Of course, it'd be interesting to know more about their actual setup.

CO and diesel

Fri, 16 Nov 2012 15:11:36 EDT

ConstantineM posted :

said by PX Eliezer:

It is particularly galling that he feels that an arrangement including IPKall is a preferable alternative to CallCentric.

IPKall is housed in a single place with not even any pretense of customer support other than in a Voxilla forum. All of the things he doesn't like about CC are even more true of IPKall.

IPKall only provide incoming phone number termination, they don't even provide SIP registrations, you have to have a SIP registration with another provider. IPKall having a second place wouldn't make much difference at all; noone here is expecting for the COs to be in the cloud.

Also, I highly doubt that IPKall doesn't have a diesel power generator; I'm pretty sure they have plenty of diesel power (but then again we were all pretty sure that CallCentric had one, too); CallCentric is probably the only major provider to lack a diesel power generator at their facilities.

Re: IPKall is good, but not CallCentric SIP

Fri, 16 Nov 2012 15:00:55 EDT

ConstantineM posted :

said by Trev:

Is there even anything left to beat of that poor unfortunate horse?

For every ConstantineM who highly advises against CallCentric, there are 20 forum regulars who will highly recommend them.

First of all, your proportions are completely not true. The amount of people who no longer recommend CallCentric, to those who blindly ignore the apparent problems, is not nearly 1 to 20, or not even 1 to 2 (it's probably max 1 to 1).

Second, even CC seems to be advising, or have been advising just a couple of weeks ago, to not use their SIP servers for registration due to their apparent DDoS, and to instead register a free account with some competing provider, and to forward incoming numbers to such competing provider. That's what I've been doing with my numbers with CC for a long time anyways (since they don't support simultaneous registrations), and I've been mostly unaffected by their DDoS.

With that said, what exactly is wrong with my advise as given above in my previous message? You obviously didn't quote my reasons, but it's not like I'm just bashing CallCentric for no reason whatsoever.

Lack of multiple concurrent SIP registrations alone is a good enough reason to avoid CallCentric when all you want to use is IPKall and Google Voice. I stand by my words. If they didn't want to be "beaten", maybe they should finally address the problems instead of bashing their competitors.

Re: IPKall is good, but not CallCentric SIP

Fri, 16 Nov 2012 14:41:17 EDT

PX Eliezer posted :

said by Trev:

For every ConstantineM who highly advises against CallCentric, there are 20 forum regulars who will highly recommend them.

Indeed.

It is particularly galling that he feels that an arrangement including IPKall is a preferable alternative to CallCentric.

IPKall is housed in a single place with not even any pretense of customer support other than in a Voxilla forum. All of the things he doesn't like about CC are even more true of IPKall.

Connie was also going on and on last year about how CC caller ID display didn't include a [+] sign. Yet CC follows the same practices as a score of other providers he never carps about.

Mallow stopped playing with the ash tray and looked up, "That's not the Sutt I used to know. He's a blood-blind bull. Galaxy, he hates me."

"All the more dangerous then."

"More dangerous? Nonsense! He's lost all power of judgement."

---Foundation.

Re: IPKall is good, but not CallCentric SIP

Fri, 16 Nov 2012 14:10:26 EDT

Trev posted :

said by ConstantineM:

I highly advise against putting CallCentric into the mix. Especially from a SIP-registration standpoint, their servers are highly unreliable,

Is there even anything left to beat of that poor unfortunate horse?

For every ConstantineM who highly advises against CallCentric, there are 20 forum regulars who will highly recommend them.
--
Wondering what I do? Find out at »www.digitalcon.ca
Get your Obihai ATA in Canada.

IPKall is good, but not CallCentric SIP

Fri, 16 Nov 2012 13:42:01 EDT

ConstantineM posted :

said by SCADAGeo:

said by dsl2u:

Unfortunately I'm in Canada so no Google Voice for me.

A free IPKall number (Washington area codes 206, 253, 360, and 425) SIP forwarded to a free CallCentric IP Freedom account may help you overcome some of the hurdles. ;)

Something to keep in mind with an IPKall phone number... it must be used at least once every 30 days (call must be answered/completed).

I highly advise against putting CallCentric into the mix. Especially from a SIP-registration standpoint, their servers are highly unreliable, since they have no backup power generator, and don't have geographic redundancy (all servers are in their office in New York City; CallCentric doesn't co-locate a single server in any professional-grade data centre with backup power etc); in addition, CallCentric servers don't support TCP registrations (UDP registrations are a huge battery drain on a mobile device), and also they only allow at most one device per account to register with their SIP service at any given time (e.g. you won't be able to use the same CallCentric account on a mobile phone, tablet and a home phone at the same time — if you do try that, only one of the 3 phones would ring).

OnSIP solves all of the above problems other than the lack of TCP registrations, and their basic accounts are free, too (but they still don't offer TCP registrations even as a paid service).

A good choice would be IPKall with OnSIP, with something like Acrobits Groundwire on iOS (make sure to enable APNS against OnSIP's advise, so that instead of having a direct UDP connection to OnSIP that would drain your battery in less than a day, you'd piggyback onto the APNS to have great battery life of at least a week or so).

I've heard that »CallWithUs.com does offer TCP registrations, and so does PBXes.org; they're on my list to try out with my Google Nexus 3, which, obviously, lacks APNS.

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Thu, 15 Nov 2012 17:36:33 EDT

Dan_voip posted :

said by lugnut :

My understanding is that with Freephoneline.ca you can use your own SIP adapter, pay $50 for the configuration file one time only and it's free afterwards, excluding LD calls.

That's right except LD it's also free "to the largest metropolitan areas in Canada", see the list here.
They are offering this service for about 3 years now and it's still working very well, I have 1 line on my Asterisk.

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Thu, 15 Nov 2012 03:16:25 EDT

anon posted : My understanding is that with Freephoneline.ca you can use your own SIP adapter, pay $50 for the configuration file one time only and it's free afterwards, excluding LD calls.

I'm not 100% certain on the specifics, but I have a friend who says he hacked his own config file and uses the service free of charge.

As for the Fongo option, that's a more recent development I really know less than nothing about, but apparently that's their answer to Nettalk Duo and MJ+.

Like I said earlier, these are pretty much your only options in the MJ price range if you want a Canadian phone number.

YMMV...

Me? I'm OK with my MJ+. I realize they're sleazy, but so's anyone else who promises unlimited North American phone service for $40 a year. My rule of thumb is that if it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is, and since it's almost a certainty that their business model will eventually collapse unless they surprise everyone with an eventual rate hike, like recently they've dropped the free call forwarding service, I'm smart enough not to pay for 5 years of pie in the sky promised service in advance.

Honestly I don't really understand people who expect something for nothing and for it to last forever. To me Magicjack, Nettalk Duo and Freephoneline.ca are all run like Ponzi schemes. They do well as long as a fresh supply of new subscribers are coming in the door, but once they saturate the market, then they face an income crunch and either have to start offering realistic prices or shut down and run away with the cash in hand.

So far so good with MJ. I'm in my second year of service and have already saved a couple of hundred dollars compared to Bell LD service, so I'll continue to enjoy the cheap rates as long as they last. However, I am not so naive as to think that they will continue to keep going with the same rate structure forever.

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 23:43:17 EDT

dsl2u posted : Regarding freephoneline.ca....I don't see any free phone. I see something called Fongo which looks like you need the $59 adapter then its $5 a month. Is this correct? And Fongo is on its own website. ???

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 22:32:43 EDT

gbh2o posted : I'm just a retired-old-f$%t who likes to dabble with this while providing voice support to a widely dispersed family. Nettalk is probably the closest to what you were used to, and a low-cost solution with which I have personal experience. They may or may not be the best match to your needs. They have some nice features, and some very limited ones.

If you follow some of the other recommendations and 'roll-yer-own' you may well achieve even lower costs, but you will have to do more of your own due diligence on providers ( some of the more highly discussed favorites are at dslreports.com/gbu ) of which there are literally hundreds. You can use the forum search to find many different favorites (mine included), and a discussion of each one's strengths and weaknesses. You will also have to have a minimal understanding of the technology and devices you may choose, and be willing to handle some of your own problems.

Several of the contributers here represent some of the companies discussed... I think that's a strong point in their favor and worth noting during your search (you can find help). I guess I'm paranoid and don't believe _any_ of them are perfect; I use several of them to capitalize of the strength of each, lower costs, and for that warm fuzzy feeling and reliability! :-)

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 17:54:21 EDT

dsl2u posted : That is such good news. Thanks. I thought I'd have to pay much more than MJ Plus but it now looks like its quite a bit cheaper with Nettalk. And there may be other options. Wow. Gotta love forums with knowledgeable people posting. :)

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 17:36:20 EDT

gbh2o posted : Google search can be your friend; currently I see Amazon(US) with Duo refurbs including a year of service for US $36.99 with free shipping. Amazon.ca shows somewhat higher prices in $ Canadian.

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 17:21:52 EDT

Davesnothere posted :

said by toro:

....I highly doubt GVJack knows how to modify the firmware inside the MJ Plus so that it can connect directly to GV without the use of a PC.

Ahhhh - I had not heard of GV Jack.

So is this a mod that you can make to a MagicJack ?

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 12:12:40 EDT

dsl2u posted : Wondering if anybody knows how easy it is to buy a used unit and then get the number changed? NetTalk said its no problem as long as you have the username and password. Without those 2 key things the hardware is useless they claimed.

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 12:10:43 EDT

dsl2u posted : Just talked to NetPhone. Such a pleasure to talk to someone that speaks English well and that answers questions without evasion.

Calling cap is 3000. Good for 99% of the population.
$30/year or $2.50 a month after your first year ends. No extra charge for Canadians. 3 way calling is free. Charge to change your number is $0. To dial PR, Mexico is a little more. There long distance rates are reasonable.

They have no software so copying and pasting is out. On the other hand they have no software that will interfere with my Operating System.

But maybe there are softphone programs that work with NetPhone? Does anybody know?

$40 for the NetTalk Duo including a year of service. $30 for the NetTalk Duo II but with only 3 months of service its not worth it. They have a wifi version.

Looks very good. Many thanks for the help so far. This will help a lot of disgruntled MJ customers choose a better communication solution.

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 11:54:05 EDT

gbh2o posted : You can use their softphone, connect the ATA through a computer, or just use the ATA by itself. I don't have a wireless version to compare flexibility or quality. I have no idea as to a cap, I've never hit one. Oh, Nettalk also has an app for iphones and androids for free U.S.A. and Canada calling over WiFi (or your data plan if you want to waste it). Free is always such a nice touch! No ATA account required for it.

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 11:38:41 EDT

dsl2u posted : Just remembered that with MJ you used to not be able to block your outgoing number. This is a severe shortcoming when calling assholes. :)

Does anybody know if they've rectified this shortcoming yet?
I could use Gmail more but some people won't pick up numbers that aren't local as most of the time they are mindless phone solicitors. So its really important when not calling businesses to display a local number or be able to block your number completely.

What would be ideal is a pseudo, local number that can be quickly activated when occasionally needed.

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 11:37:08 EDT

dsl2u posted : Hey gbh20, amazing you just posted this a few minutes ago as I was just reading their webpage!
Can you use it as a softphone as well eliminating the need for another phone on your desk?
What is the monthly cap?
I don't need wireless so are there a differences in features or audio quality between the different hardware devices they sell?
What are the downsides of NetTalk?

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 11:32:48 EDT

gbh2o posted : Nettalk.com may have the closest substitute for MJ. It does not require a computer. Sites like 1saleaday.com or bensoutlet.com periodically have had refurbished units with a year of service included for less than the normal $30/year cost of service to the U.S.A. and Canada. You might want to do a web search for other sites with current, similar deals.

In any case, service quality has been acceptable to me, primarily used while I travel. But I do have the number ring both the Nettalk ATA (which may not even be connected) _and_ forwarded to one of my other DIDs that link to an IVR on one of my asterisk systems so that the correct family member destination can be selected. _I_ find it to be a very good 'value' system.

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 11:28:36 EDT

dsl2u posted : MJ Plus (the only one to get) is about $70 including a year of service.
Renewal of number is $30 for those lucky enough to live in the US.
For us reamed out Canadians its $10 extra.

The downside is the lack of customer service (putrid) and the crappy MJ software that interferes with the Sleep function of Windows computers. Probably interferes with a lot more things as well.

The calling quality of MJ is quite fine most of the time.

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 11:26:12 EDT

dsl2u posted : So the criteria most of look for:
Audio and handoff/duplex speed and general reliability of the line.
Unlimited (capped at a reasonable amount) incoming/outgoing North American (US/Canada) calling.
Plug into a router so no computer needed.
Softphone software that doesn't interfere with your Operating System so you can copy and paste numbers from anywhere.
Around $5 a month would make most of us very happy.

Another feature if you need perfect call quality would be call forwarding that doesn't use the VOIP network. So if you forward your VOIP line to a long distance number, then proceed to call your VOIP number with your POTS (perfect quality) line, you get flawless long distance calling quality. Best if you don't give out your VOIP number so you don't have to immediately unforward your VOIP call forwarding when you connect to the other end in case somebody calls your VOIP line when on the call. I tried this with MJ but the calling quality was not POTS quality. It was the same as VOIP for both me and the other end. Experimented with this on several occasions. Not sure if all VOIP companies would be similar in this regard. For those important calls, sometimes POTS is necessary. Especially for important family, hard of hearing people, or anything where a lot of money is involved in negotiation.

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 11:16:55 EDT

dsl2u posted : I don't think I would need more than about 1000 a month as long as Gmail is free. If its not, then maybe 2000-3000 for those long calls on hold with some businesses these days. What is the typical cap with MJ, OOma, FreePhoneLine, etc?

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 11:15:00 EDT

dsl2u posted : > Where do you call to?
Just major cities in Canada mostly.
FreePhoneLine is $60 plug $5 a month. Pretty close to MJ. Wondering how the audio quality is and how many minutes a month they allow. And is there any software that interferes with Windows like MJ?

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 11:13:09 EDT

dsl2u posted : Actually I think some of my replies didn't post as you seem to have to hit the Post Now! button twice in Opera. Sorry about that.

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 11:12:01 EDT

dsl2u posted : So is the Ooma system the only one that offers a one time charge with no monthly charges in the future? If so, how is the audio handoff/quality compared to MJ?

I found when using MJ and Gmail (which were very similar in audio quality) that when downloading torrents they didn't work at all. I would have to manually pause the torrents to make a call. I'm wondering if its possible to change the settings, perhaps in the router, to allocate more bandwith to the VOIP port or guarantee a minimum amount of bandwith to the VOIP port? Is this called shaping? Can't remember the term. Having to click things before every call is a hassle.

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 09:57:11 EDT

toro posted : When using the MJ service, yes, you are correct. However I was replying to a post about using GVJack. I highly doubt GVJack knows how to modify the firmware inside the MJ Plus so that it can connect directly to GV without the use of a PC.
--
Providers: voip.ms, freephoneline, smartcall.ro through asterisk. Hardware: Vonage VDV21, Moto VT2x42, Linksys SPA series, Grandstream HT series, Panasonic KX-TGP5x0
»www.voipfan.net

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 09:46:45 EDT

Davesnothere posted :

said by toro:

I think that [MJ Plus] can be used only through the USB so you still depends on a PC to be on all the time like with the old MJ.

No, with MJ Plus, you have a choice to do that, OR to hook it to your router and use an AC adapter for power, like most other ATAs, AFAIK.

But the other issues with MJ still apply.

As for the OP, it looks like YAPAR (Yet Another Post And Run).

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 09:41:53 EDT

Davesnothere posted :

said by lugnut :

....Since we're Canadians we're used to getting reamed on products and services Americans get for peanuts :p

What ?

We can get reamed for PEANUTS ?! :) :) :)

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 08:15:08 EDT

grand total posted :

said by dsl2u:

Unfortunately I'm in Canada so no Google Voice for me. Gmail works very well for outgoing calls though.

Where do you call to? If you just call major Canadian cities then FreePhoneLine may be your best option. It gives you a Canadian incoming number (if that matters to you). You could still use Gmail for outgoing calls that are not free with FreePhoneLine.
--
DPC3825 (bridged mode) - WRT610N + Tomato - Panasonic KX-TGP500 - Asterisk 1.8.11.0 with Asterisk GUI on Virtual Server
Anveo - FreePhoneLine - Voxbeam - Numbergroup - Callcentric - VoIP.MS - Localphone - UKDDI

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 08:04:53 EDT

toro posted :

said by zapattack:

For anyone satisfied with a US number, MJ can be re-cycled by using GVJack software which has a one-time charge only. See pcphonesoft for more info.

I think that can be used only through the USB so you still depends on a PC to be on all the time like with the old MJ.
--
Providers: voip.ms, freephoneline, smartcall.ro through asterisk. Hardware: Vonage VDV21, Moto VT2x42, Linksys SPA series, Grandstream HT series, Panasonic KX-TGP5x0
»www.voipfan.net

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 01:57:10 EDT

SCADAGeo posted :

said by dsl2u:

Unfortunately I'm in Canada so no Google Voice for me.

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 00:28:19 EDT

zapattack posted : For anyone satisfied with a US number, MJ can be re-cycled by using GVJack software which has a one-time charge only. See pcphonesoft for more info.

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Tue, 13 Nov 2012 23:56:17 EDT

cell14 posted :

said by dsl2u:

I think I'm looking for unlimited incoming and outgoing calling like MagicJack. Localphone.com is like voip.ms. They charge for every minute.

There is no such thing like" unlimited" with the unlimited providers.Usually, there is a cap on both minutes and numbers of calls to different numbers, restrictions which numbers/area codes/exchanges you can call, restrictions on conferencing etc.

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Tue, 13 Nov 2012 23:53:00 EDT

rblizz posted :

said by cell14:

Sorry, I needed the 100000.- $ price for fast response. ;)

"I was ... this ... close."

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Tue, 13 Nov 2012 23:46:07 EDT

cell14 posted :

said by rblizz:

said by cell14:

Google voice with Obi adapter. Completely free(At least for now) and you can use Obi for other VOIP providers. Additionally to those mentioned definitely Localphone.com

You beat me to it.

Sorry, I needed the 100000.- $ price for fast response. ;)

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Tue, 13 Nov 2012 23:44:13 EDT

rblizz posted : I should ask, what does MagicJack charge (to buy the device and for yearly charges)?

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Tue, 13 Nov 2012 23:43:03 EDT

rblizz posted :

said by dsl2u:

I think I'm looking for unlimited incoming and outgoing calling like MagicJack. Localphone.com is like voip.ms. They charge for every minute.

How many minutes a month do you use? And, if you mostly call the same person (or persons) you could both (or several of you) set up with CallCentric (or one of the others) and call each other for free. CallCentric even offers free unlimited incoming NY numbers (there will be a monthly 911 charge, however).

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Tue, 13 Nov 2012 23:39:16 EDT

dsl2u posted : I think I'm looking for unlimited incoming and outgoing calling like MagicJack. Localphone.com is like voip.ms. They charge for every minute.

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Tue, 13 Nov 2012 23:37:46 EDT

cell14 posted :

said by dsl2u:

Unfortunately I'm in Canada so no Google Voice for me. Gmail works very well for outgoing calls though.

If you know somebody who opens for you a new Gmail account with Google voice in the US( and provides a verification US number) you would be able to use Google Voice from Canada. I did it for somebody and configured the Obi for GV and Localphone and she can use it now in her country.

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Tue, 13 Nov 2012 23:27:54 EDT

dsl2u posted : Unfortunately I'm in Canada so no Google Voice for me. Gmail works very well for outgoing calls though.

Good suggestions so far. Many thanks to those contributing. There seems to be 2 classes of VOIP. Vonage, Primus and the like who have enormous advertising budgets and charge about half of normal phone service with the same quality as Magicjack most of the time, and companies like MJ and Voip.ms which charge a fraction of the phone company and operate on a small scale.

Re: Recommended alternatives to MagicJack?

Tue, 13 Nov 2012 23:24:56 EDT

rblizz posted :

said by cell14:

Google voice with Obi adapter. Completely free(At least for now) and you can use Obi for other VOIP providers. Additionally to those mentioned definitely Localphone.com

You beat me to it.