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Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to J E F F

Re: Gasoline Prices Below 99 Cents/Litre By Christmas

said by J E F F:

Manual operated car also last much longer than automatics. Remember, automatics aren't selective when you put the pedal to the metal, you will be red-lining.

Bullshit. That has zero to do with the transmission and everything to do with the ECU. Most modern automatics are extremely conservative with how they shift in an effort to be as fuel efficient as possible. In other words, they downshift as early as possible. The engine doesn't roar when you floor it like autos did in the past, but they don't use as much fuel either.

That, and those same modern automatics let you manually shift gears, so any argument about not being able to choose is rendered moot before it even started.

I get why you guys want your standard transmissions, but seriously, claiming that an engine will last longer because you aren't redlining all the time is nothing but a heaping pile of bullshit. Anyone who drives pedal to the metal the moment the light turns green is going to blow an engine regardless of whether it's an auto or a standard.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
said by Gone:

Bullshit. That has zero to do with the transmission and everything to do with the ECU. Most modern automatics are extremely conservative with how they shift in an effort to be as fuel efficient as possible. In other words, they downshift as early as possible. The engine doesn't roar when you floor it like autos did in the past, but they don't use as much fuel either.

That, and those same modern automatics let you manually shift gears, so any argument about not being able to choose is rendered moot before it even started.

I get why you guys want your standard transmissions, but seriously, claiming that an engine will last longer because you aren't redlining all the time is nothing but a heaping pile of bullshit. Anyone who drives pedal to the metal the moment the light turns green is going to blow an engine regardless of whether it's an auto or a standard.

agreed...my Kia even has an "ActiveECO" mode, which i leave off, that gets to 6th gear as quickly as possible to maximize fuel economy...personally, i don't like it, because driving around town in 5th or 6th gear, while using a tiny amount of fuel, is rather annoying when you need to switch lanes and find you have little to no power because you are essentially coasting along in top gear...so you have to put your foot down to drop it in to 3rd or 4th to scoot over...in "regular" mode, it will still pop into top gear if you coast down a hill with little to no throttle applied, but "normal" driving won't see it get up there until 70-80km/hr, which is more appropriate...as well, like you mentioned, you can slide the shifter into it's "manual mode" and upshift and downshift manually if you want.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


Mike2009

join:2009-01-13
Ottawa, ON
kudos:3
Manual mode sounds like something for amateurs.Why bother?


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
said by Mike2009:

Manual mode sounds like something for amateurs.Why bother?

i wouldn't use it to "drive a stick", otherwise i would have simply bought a car with a manual...however, in terms of starting on ice from a stop, putting into 2nd instead of first can aid with traction...same for engine braking (downshifting) to avoid locking up the wheels during relaxed braking (or going downhill)...also, depending on the gearing of your vehicle, and your speed, you might find it handy to hold a gear...in my car, if you set the cruise for 80, and travel on hilly terrain, the transmission will cruise in 6th, then downshift to 4th or 5th to maintain speed if the inclines are steep enough...alternatively, you can simply put it in 5th and leave it there if you want.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell

Robrr

join:2008-04-19
Guelph, ON
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

said by J E F F:

Manual operated car also last much longer than automatics. Remember, automatics aren't selective when you put the pedal to the metal, you will be red-lining.

Bullshit. That has zero to do with the transmission and everything to do with the ECU. Most modern automatics are extremely conservative with how they shift in an effort to be as fuel efficient as possible. In other words, they downshift as early as possible. The engine doesn't roar when you floor it like autos did in the past, but they don't use as much fuel either.

That, and those same modern automatics let you manually shift gears, so any argument about not being able to choose is rendered moot before it even started.

I get why you guys want your standard transmissions, but seriously, claiming that an engine will last longer because you aren't redlining all the time is nothing but a heaping pile of bullshit. Anyone who drives pedal to the metal the moment the light turns green is going to blow an engine regardless of whether it's an auto or a standard.

No shit to be seen in Jeff's comments. I've got 3 blown automatic transmissions to my name vs 0 manuals and I've owned a roughly equal number of each (4 auto trans vehicles vs 3 manual trans vehicles)(although I will admit to one blown clutch)

No blown motors yet.

To put it quite simply KISS methodology always has a tendency to reign supreme and quite frankly a manual transmission will always have less going on than an automatic. As a result, they will last longer.

As much as you all want to sit here and go on about how much more efficient auto is, it really isnt. As I mentioned in a previous post, the current consensus in that an auto and a manual are now on par in terms of fuel economy unless you really want to start splitting hairs about which transmission got the .1 mpg better.

The reality is that drivers are becoming lazier and lazier with every passing generation. When you ask someone about about an auto trans vs a manual trans, the first comment that usually knocks the manual trans is the "effort" involved especially when it involves commuter traffic.

If you think that is BS, look around the car a bit more.

- We now have all kinds of parking assistance in the vehicle because people don't want/can't be bothered to look behind them and actually back the vehicle in to its parking space
- Blind spot detectors because no one actually checks their blind spot while driving
- Accident avoidance systems to monitor accidents from all directions because again I can only assume their not looking out their front windshield
- Sensors to help maintain a specific gap while driving with the cruise on, that goes even further to apply the brakes automatically if the vehicle ahead of you slows down
- ABS/traction and other driver aids because people don't know how to threshold brake, steer out of a skid, etc.

and the list goes on.

I fully get that some people will never consider a vehicle anything more than a utilitarian piece of machinery (my wife considers our Jeep to be just that) but I made sure she knew how to properly and effectively drive the vehicle so that she would be able to handle any situation that might be thrown at her.

Unfortunately the same can't be said for the majority of drivers on the highway.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by Robrr:

No shit to be seen in Jeff's comments. I've got 3 blown automatic transmissions to my name vs 0 manuals and I've owned a roughly equal number of each (4 auto trans vehicles vs 3 manual trans vehicles)(although I will admit to one blown clutch)

It was complete bullshit. What he described is an ECU issue that would allow a car to redline when someone floors it rather than downshifting quicker. Not only is that not automatic transmission issue - period - but it is also not an issue with every automatic transmission that has ever existed.

If I were to use the logic being applied here, all standards must suck because my father had a 1990s Pontiac Firefly with a standard transmission that needed to be rebuilt twice, but none of the automatics he ever owned had any transmission issues.

I get that you guys love to keep your right hand firmly gripped on a stick when driving. Your love for those transmissions is not an excuse to say stupid things about automatics or to throw objectivity out the window.

Furthermore, the air of superiority being associated with those people who drive stick, and the whining and complaining about people who drive automatics, is wholly unwarranted. To most people, a car is a utility as a means of conveyance between point A and point B. Beyond that, everything else is irrelevant, and just because some people may think otherwise does not make it any less true. While I get that there are many morons on the road who shouldn't be behind the wheel, not everyone is, and just because someone drives an automatic does not mean that they have less of a right to behind the wheel than someone who drives stick.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to Robrr
i have owned 16 cars and 6 motorcycles over the years (13 of the 22 vehicles had a manual transmission) and not wanting a manual transmission now has nothing to do with being "lazy"...driving a manual transmission in bumper to bumper traffic for an hour a day was marginally fun when i was 16...it no longer is...after a long day at work, i prefer to use my drive home to "wind down"...the last thing i want to do is the constant manipulation of every limb of my body to get home...i want a more relaxing drive...as well, if i were to injure myself, it may be next to impossible to drive a manual transmission car, meaning i would be without transportation.

if i were going to a track, to take a car to its limits, give me a manual...to live with day to day though, it has lost its appeal.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
DJ does make a valid point... When I purchased my 60 Corvette in 1983 it was for the purpose as a daily summer driver. My other car at the time was a Toyota Land Cruiser, it too was a standard...

I would alter between my Vette or the Toyota for commuting to work during the summer... Getting caught up in bumper to bumper traffic could cause grief for my clutch foot...

Robrr

join:2008-04-19
Guelph, ON

1 recommendation

reply to Gone
Actually the issue described is common with EVERY automatic. If the drivers holds the gas to the floor, the ECU and TCM will decide not to shift until red-line. You have to lift to make it shift sooner.

If you think I'm wrong take your vehicle out and keep the gas pinned to the floor from 0 to 120 km/h.

As for the "air of superiority" comment, you missed my point. The point being is that you actually need to focus on the task of driving, not your hair, your makeup, the email from the boss etc.. Whether a vehicle is a utilitarian piece of machinery or something that you truly enjoy driving, driving is what you are suppose to be doing behind the wheel. Unfortunately all the technology they put into vehicles these days makes it so that more and more people are becoming disengaged from the act of driving and focused on everything else around them.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by Robrr:

Actually the issue described is common with EVERY automatic. If the drivers holds the gas to the floor, the ECU and TCM will decide not to shift until red-line. You have to lift to make it shift sooner.
If you think I'm wrong take your vehicle out and keep the gas pinned to the floor from 0 to 120 km/h.

Depends on if the ECU is tuned for fuel economy or performance. ECUs tuned for fuel economy will downshift as soon as possible, and my Elantra does this unless I throw the shifter into manual mode at which point it will redline and then force a downshift if I don't do it myself. The XG350 I had before loved to ref up before downshifting, and I actually would throw that car into manual mode for the opposite reason so that it didn't rev so high. Different cars, different shift characteristics.

To claim all automatics do this is a misnomer. Prior to 2008 they might have, but a *lot* has changed since then, just like I'm sure a lot has changed with standard transmission cars since my father's Firefly.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to Robrr
said by Robrr:

Actually the issue described is common with EVERY automatic. If the drivers holds the gas to the floor, the ECU and TCM will decide not to shift until red-line. You have to lift to make it shift sooner.

If you think I'm wrong take your vehicle out and keep the gas pinned to the floor from 0 to 120 km/h.

if you floor the pedal, yes an automatic will downshift to the lowest possible gear, or if accelerating, will likely hold the gear until close to red line...however, no one i know drives that way...when you are stopped, you give it about an inch of throttle (pedal) and the car gets up to speed in a normal relaxed way, similar to how it would if you were shifting the gears on your own...in a manual, you don't floor the gas and red line every gear when you take off from a stop (unless you are driving a 5+ year old Honda Civic, with stupid ground effects, a big wing spoiler, a fart pipe exhaust, and wheels 4 sizes too big with so much negative camber you are almost driving on the inner sidewalls ).
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
In my day the automatic downshifting from 3rd to 2nd gear on the highway by depressing the gas pedal was called "passing gear"

quote:
Passing gear

An automatic transmission gear that shifts a vehicle into a lower gear for a short burst of extra power to pass other cars on the highway. The gear is engaged by sharply depressing the gas pedal. When the pedal is released, the vehicle returns to normal to normal driving gear.

»www.motorera.com/dictionary/pa.htm



peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to Gone

Warning: peterboro's back in the day post ahead.

said by Gone:

To claim all automatics do this is a misnomer. Prior to 2008 they might have, but a *lot* has changed since then, just like I'm sure a lot has changed with standard transmission cars since my father's Firefly.

And back in the day prior to ECUs there was a mechanical rod from the throttle to the trans and then vacuum modulators came along.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to vue666

Re: Gasoline Prices Below 99 Cents/Litre By Christmas

said by vue666:

In my day the automatic downshifting from 3rd to 2nd gear on the highway by depressing the gas pedal was called "passing gear"

quote:
Passing gear

An automatic transmission gear that shifts a vehicle into a lower gear for a short burst of extra power to pass other cars on the highway. The gear is engaged by sharply depressing the gas pedal. When the pedal is released, the vehicle returns to normal to normal driving gear.

»www.motorera.com/dictionary/pa.htm


i don't really like the term "passing" gear...it isn't a gear that was made for passing...the term i was familiar with was "kickdown"...you simply went down a gear, the same gear you would have used when you were getting to that speed in the first place.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


TLS2000
Crazy Canuck
Premium
join:2004-02-24
Mississauga, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed

1 recommendation

reply to Gone
said by Gone:

downshift as soon as possible

Please stop saying downshift when you mean upshift. Transmissions go up a gear to lower RPM on the engine.
--
Tom


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
Right. I knew that, haha.


TLS2000
Crazy Canuck
Premium
join:2004-02-24
Mississauga, ON
I know. I just didn't want people to view your arguments in a bad light because you were using the wrong term by accident. lol
--
Tom


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
I meant to hop on the QEW and floor the Elantra on my way back from the store about an hour ago but with the fog rolling in this evening and the need to correct some issues with my Christmas light display (yes, my wife calls me Clark Griswold, haha) I decided to just head straight home instead. The Elantra has a redline at 6750 RPM. I know it doesn't come close to that when flooring it before upshifting, I just can't say for certain what the exact shift points are. I keep Eco mode enabled, which I am sure plays a part in how and when it shifts.


nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON
reply to vue666
said by vue666:

In my day the automatic downshifting from 3rd to 2nd gear on the highway by depressing the gas pedal was called "passing gear"

quote:
Passing gear

An automatic transmission gear that shifts a vehicle into a lower gear for a short burst of extra power to pass other cars on the highway. The gear is engaged by sharply depressing the gas pedal. When the pedal is released, the vehicle returns to normal to normal driving gear.

»www.motorera.com/dictionary/pa.htm


I remember this!! As a younger person driving my parents 1992 Ford Tempo...I4....2.3L engine apparently with a WHOPPING 98hp!!! That would explain why when I pulled off this manuever on some road trips that the car didn't really speed up that much lol.

Anywho, that being said, nitz has jumped into the small car market with a 2008 VW City Jetta...I know I know, I have the MK4 with some hideous front end, but I like it...its spacious for a tall guy like me and gets way better gas mileage than my pig 2007 Ford Freestyle...and with some personal changes in my life I don't need the CUV type space anymore, as well I get to go back to $55-$60 fillups and get more distance out of that tank now than I did before filling up for $80+ and getting around 550-600km in the city.

Anywho, gas prices hover around 126.9 in these parts...


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by nitzguy:

I remember this!! As a younger person driving my parents 1992 Ford Tempo...I4....2.3L engine apparently with a WHOPPING 98hp!!! That would explain why when I pulled off this manuever on some road trips that the car didn't really speed up that much lol.

I had a 1992 Topaz with the 3L Vulcan V6. Being a light car to begin with, it went zoom a lot better when you floored it than the I4s did.