 GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
 ·Dish Network
1 edit | Replaced electric panel
Old Panel | 
New Panel |
I was very surprised when I saw what was in there. I'm sure you'll see it immediately as well. This is our third round of remodeling and the first company basically maxed out the box with their work. The second company, who we hired to do our basement work, abused the panel. All the bad wiring is basement related. The panel passed inspection too. The wire-nutted connections were stuffed up in the top-left corner of the box. I don't even know whether the inspector took the cover off the panel, although something had happened at one point that caused the remodelers to go get different breakers. But it just goes to show that even getting a permit and requiring inspections doesn't mean you're going to end up with good/safe work.
Instead of going and adding a sub-panel, as the third company had initially started to do, I went ahead and had them redo it all into a new main panel. The old panel was obsolete and the contractors always had problems getting the right breakers to fit. I think the new one should have enough capacity for any future work we may do, although there's not much left that I can think of at this point.
Does anyone offhand see any problems with the new panel that I should get addressed?
Right now, we can tell at home that the electric service is working much better. We had a ceiling fan that was tripping a breaker all the time. We also had a planning desk light that would never switch to it's brighter level. Now it does. There are a few other items as well that my wife mentioned.
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Awesome. More handouts, food stamps, welfare and entitlements to come. I'm so proud. |
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 jack bGone FishingPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod
kudos:1 | Looks pretty good, take a closer look, the circled neutral looks a little gnarly, and the top left feed conductor doesn't appear to be fully engaged in the main lug. You should see a little copper on the outer side of the lug.
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 Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1
1 edit | reply to Goober
Question did the local inspector sign off on it before the new panel was re-energized? I assume you did get a permit? If so you should be ok. |
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| reply to Goober
Around here the inspector would of failed it for not having a bushing around where the feeders come in. I'm also a bit leery of the what looks like 2 sheetrock screws in the too-large mounting slot, but I'm assuming there's something more substantial holding it in which isn't shown in the picture...
Overall a huge improvement over the old one though!
/M |
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GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Dish Network
| reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:Question did the local inspector sign off on it before the new panel was re-energized? I assume you did get a permit? If so you should be ok.
Yes. This is all done using permits.
said by jack b:Looks pretty good, take a closer look, the circled neutral looks a little gnarly, and the top left feed conductor doesn't appear to be fully engaged in the main lug. You should see a little copper on the outer side of the lug.
I'll take a look and see whether he's still working on things and whether he's fixed those circled items. Otherwise I'll ask him about it.
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Awesome. More handouts, food stamps, welfare and entitlements to come. I'm so proud. |
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 dosdoxiesPremium
join:2004-12-15
Wallingford, PA | reply to Goober
Looks like they used a couple of drywall screws in the bottom holes and they are barely in the wood behind the panel. I use 1/4" lags and put a piece of 3/4" plywood up first.  |
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 nunyaWho is John Galt?Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:8 | I see a major problem. Someone installed a Square D panel in your house. |
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TheMGPremium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:1 | said by nunya:I see a major problem. Someone installed a Square D panel in your house.
What I've seen of Square D panels seems to be very reliable and well built to me. Although... I've only ever seen the commercial grade panels with bolt-in breakers.
Are the Square D residential panels really that bad? |
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GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Dish Network
| reply to dosdoxies
said by dosdoxies:Looks like they used a couple of drywall screws in the bottom holes and they are barely in the wood behind the panel. I use 1/4" lags and put a piece of 3/4" plywood up first.
Is that kind of strength necessary? I can tell him. I'm sure he'd do it if I asked.
said by nunya:I see a major problem. Someone installed a Square D panel in your house.
What's bad about square D panels and what effect does/will it have?
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Awesome. More handouts, food stamps, welfare and entitlements to come. I'm so proud. |
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nunyaWho is John Galt?Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:8 Reviews:
 ·Charter
 ·surpasshosting
 ·voip.ms
| J/K, I have a personal vendetta against SQD. They really aren't that bad.
Drywall screws aren't allowed for electrical work.
Other than what's already been pointed out, I think neatness is the only issue I see. They could have tidied things up a little.
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If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't. |
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GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5 | Good. Whew.
Will the inspector catch the drywall screw thing? |
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| reply to Goober
said by Goober:I was very surprised when I saw what was in there. I'm sure you'll see it immediately as well. This is our third round of remodeling and the first company basically maxed out the box with their work. The second company, who we hired to do our basement work, abused the panel. All the bad wiring is basement related. The panel passed inspection too. The wire-nutted connections were stuffed up in the top-left corner of the box. I don't even know whether the inspector took the cover off the panel, although something had happened at one point that caused the remodelers to go get different breakers. But it just goes to show that even getting a permit and requiring inspections doesn't mean you're going to end up with good/safe work. Nope, I don't immediately see any glaring problems that any 40 year old panel wouldn't have. And a few things look like they've been there for years.
First off, wire nuts ARE permitted in panels. Second, those older panels require different breakers since the originals are not available, but the new style and type are the same.
said by Goober:Instead of going and adding a sub-panel, as the third company had initially started to do, I went ahead and had them redo it all into a new main panel. The old panel was obsolete and the contractors always had problems getting the right breakers to fit. I think the new one should have enough capacity for any future work we may do, although there's not much left that I can think of at this point. You went from a 30/40 main panel with a sub-panel, to a 40/40 with no sub-panel. You had MUCH more space before.
said by Goober:Right now, we can tell at home that the electric service is working much better. We had a ceiling fan that was tripping a breaker all the time. We also had a planning desk light that would never switch to it's brighter level. Now it does. There are a few other items as well that my wife mentioned.
Funny, neither of these things should have been affected by a simple panel change. The circuits don't care if the breakers are new or not, so I'd be VERY curious to see how they got fixed. |
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nunyaWho is John Galt?Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:8 Reviews:
·Charter
·surpasshosting
·voip.ms
| Tru-dat on the spaces. Many contractors are still blissfully unaware that the 42 space limit no longer applies.
SQD used to make 52 or 56 (I can't remember) QO panels. Not sure if they caught on.
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If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't. |
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GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Dish Network
| reply to Speedy Petey
Three remodeling companies had problems with the old panel and breakers. I assume that wasn't/isn't a fluke. I'm not really familiar with this stuff, so I don't remember exactly the issues. But again, from 7 years back we remember the panel discussion coming up and the contractors making comments about it.
The sub panel was going to be added to the old panel. Given that we were going to change the old panel, we decided we didn't want or need the sub panel and so he stopped work and pulled it out. We don't need more room than the new panel provides. We've pretty much expanded and remodeled to the max that this house can take.
It wasn't a simple panel change. The old panel had many of the circuits overloaded. Presently each room is getting it's own breaker. In the old panel, for example, we had rooms and open area on the same breaker.
The bottom line is that I'm seeing and experiencing a difference. If the breaker is overloaded, why wouldn't the load of a fan motor turning on cause a breaker to trip? In terms of the light brightness on the planning desk, I don't know why that is affected, but it is. For several years we thought it was just a bad under cabinet lighting unit. I was going to replace it, since the light was always in dim mode (these have a dim and bright mode). But with the work that was done, the bright and dim modes both work and the ceiling fan doesn't trip the breaker. All of that started happening only after the second remodeling project that we had done.
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Awesome. More handouts, food stamps, welfare and entitlements to come. I'm so proud. |
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 John GaltForward, MarchPremium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:5 | There was a wiring error in the branch circuit wiring. That has been corrected now, so things operate normally. |
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| reply to Goober
said by Goober:It wasn't a simple panel change. The old panel had many of the circuits overloaded. Presently each room is getting it's own breaker. In the old panel, for example, we had rooms and open area on the same breaker. Ah, you did not mention that before. You made it seem like the panel change was what solved the problems. |
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GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Dish Network
1 edit | Sorry about that. Part of the reason for the panel change was because we knew we had odd occasional electric issues and this was an excuse to start fresh and get all of the problems addressed.
I talked to the electrician this morning. He'd come over to get some of his tools. I asked him about the issues that were mentioned here. He didn't think any of those items are a problem (of course). I guess we'll see. The inspector will be here middle of next week.
I'm not terribly worried since our GC is the electrician's brother. So if something goes wrong, it'll get fixed.
I appreciate everyone's comments. I'd never have been able to spot potential issues.
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Awesome. More handouts, food stamps, welfare and entitlements to come. I'm so proud. |
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