pike Premium Member join:2001-02-01 Washington, DC |
to Jack_in_VA
Re: Another Edition of "What's Wrong With This Picture?&quosaid by Jack_in_VA:Given what I see and read today we did better without the tools because we had trained people vs tools with incompetent workers trying to use them. Hi Jack, I'm inclined to agree with you but you're oversimplifying a bit. It does seem to be an unfortunate truth that the current generation and younger folks I encounter in the field performing skilled trades are far less skilled then their predecessors. I often attribute this to a lack of interest in the task they are performing. They never bothered to truly UNDERSTAND what it is they are doing -- rather then tend to memorize certain things and simply repeat them. But that's a whole different topic. What you seem to be missing regarding spec'd tools like torque screwdrivers is the application they're being used for. Bear in mind technological advances have resulted in increasingly complex devices and equipment that demand a new level of precision. Think about the modern aircraft flying over your family's home. Would you want the skilled and tenured aviation electrician to rely on his arthritic "calibrated" hands or a certified torque wrench when performing maintenance on that airframe? |
|
|
said by pike:said by Jack_in_VA:Given what I see and read today we did better without the tools because we had trained people vs tools with incompetent workers trying to use them. Hi Jack, I'm inclined to agree with you but you're oversimplifying a bit. It does seem to be an unfortunate truth that the current generation and younger folks I encounter in the field performing skilled trades are far less skilled then their predecessors. I often attribute this to a lack of interest in the task they are performing. They never bothered to truly UNDERSTAND what it is they are doing -- rather then tend to memorize certain things and simply repeat them. But that's a whole different topic. What you seem to be missing regarding spec'd tools like torque screwdrivers is the application they're being used for. Bear in mind technological advances have resulted in increasingly complex devices and equipment that demand a new level of precision. Think about the modern aircraft flying over your family's home. Would you want the skilled and tenured aviation electrician to rely on his arthritic "calibrated" hands or a certified torque wrench when performing maintenance on that airframe? Pike I hear what you're saying but "what did they use before those tools were invented?" We built automobiles, we built airplanes, we built rockets, we built an Atomic and Hydrogen bomb and dropped them on Japan. We built the world's largest manufacturing economy in the world. All the tools, meters, smartphones in the world are useless if you don't have the technical knowledge and hands on training by a master. |
|
|
said by Jack_in_VA:Pike I hear what you're saying but "what did they use before those tools were invented?" We built automobiles, we built airplanes, German ex-pat scientists helped us build rockets plus Atomic and Hydrogen bombs and we dropped the bombs on Japan. We built the world's largest manufacturing economy in the world. All the tools, meters, smartphones in the world are useless if you don't have the technical knowledge and hands on training by a master. Corrected for posterity. |
|
alkizmo join:2007-06-25 Pierrefonds, QC |
to Jack_in_VA
That took generations of development before being more convenient than horses or trains. That were built with flat glass cockpit windows that tended to cave in under wind pressure. Most of them failed at the beginning, evetually they did use proper tools, tools that cost someone's house, but hey, cold war and space race had no budget! said by Jack_in_VA:we built an Atomic and Hydrogen bomb and dropped them on Japan. I doubt today's electrician should be measured up to the top american scientists during the peak of WW2. Yes technical knowledge matters a lot. Problem is... the tools made it that we don't screw up to learn the technical knowledge from experience |
|
|
said by alkizmo:That took generations of development before being more convenient than horses or trains. That were built with flat glass cockpit windows that tended to cave in under wind pressure. Most of them failed at the beginning, evetually they did use proper tools, tools that cost someone's house, but hey, cold war and space race had no budget! said by Jack_in_VA:we built an Atomic and Hydrogen bomb and dropped them on Japan. I doubt today's electrician should be measured up to the top american scientists during the peak of WW2. Yes technical knowledge matters a lot. Problem is... the tools made it that we don't screw up to learn the technical knowledge from experience We Americans built many things some bad but the net good advanced us to the worlds greatest superpower. Not bad I'd say. Problem today? The younger generation has no clue if a keyboard is not involved. I know youngsters who can't change a flat tire. |
|
AVDRespice, Adspice, Prospice Premium Member join:2003-02-06 Onion, NJ |
to Cho Baka
said by Cho Baka:said by Jack_in_VA:Pike I hear what you're saying but "what did they use before those tools were invented?" We built automobiles, we built airplanes, German ex-pat scientists helped us build rockets plus Atomic and Hydrogen bombs and we dropped the bombs on Japan. We built the world's largest manufacturing economy in the world. All the tools, meters, smartphones in the world are useless if you don't have the technical knowledge and hands on training by a master. Corrected for posterity. misses the point |
|
1 recommendation |
said by AVD:said by Cho Baka:said by Jack_in_VA:Pike I hear what you're saying but "what did they use before those tools were invented?" We built automobiles, we built airplanes, German ex-pat scientists helped us build rockets plus Atomic and Hydrogen bombs and we dropped the bombs on Japan. We built the world's largest manufacturing economy in the world. All the tools, meters, smartphones in the world are useless if you don't have the technical knowledge and hands on training by a master. Corrected for posterity. misses the point Missed the reason for correction as well... "Definition of POSTERITY 1 : the offspring of one progenitor to the furthest generation 2 : all future generations" |
|
|
to pike
"trades are far less skilled then their predecessors."
I hate this mentality. The preceding generation always thinks they are always far superior to the following generation while forgetting they raised/trained the following generation. |
|
|
said by battleop:"trades are far less skilled then their predecessors."
I hate this mentality. The preceding generation always thinks they are always far superior to the following generation while forgetting they raised/trained the following generation. Not quite so. I remember in the early 70's that boys would graduate, go to sears, buy a hammer and saw and became a carpenter, or buy a set of electrical tools and became an electrician, a pipewrench and became a plumber or a few brushes a painter. The apprenticeship requirements more or less disappeared. So to think the present crop as a whole is qualified is not exactly accurate. The younger generation has no understanding as to training. Example: I had my house painted inside a few years ago by a painter who worked off a list of preferred customers. His father was a painter. During the vietnam war he graduated from High school in Richmond and was drafted. He was assigned to Helicopter maintenance so when he got out he secured a job with the Virgina Air National Guard at RIC in Richmond VA. In a while he decided he wanted to join his dad's painting business. He dad agreed and for 5 years all he did was prep, clean up etc. He never actually painted anything during that time. Now the results of his training was very evident. I know people today who were selling Real Estate before the big bust and are now painting houses and roofing. Like I posted earlier if it doesn't have a keyboard many are completely lost unable to do routine tasks most males could do. |
|
|
"The apprenticeship requirements more or less disappeared."
That's not the fault of the following generation. |
|
|
said by battleop:"The apprenticeship requirements more or less disappeared."
That's not the fault of the following generation. That I agree 100 percent with. We are reaping what we sowed aren't we? |
|