Topic 'Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window' in forum 'Microsoft Help' - dslreports.com

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Fri, 23 Nov 2012 18:08:01 EDT

Corehhi posted :

said by Kramer:

I don't know how old you are, but if you are old enough to remember WordPerfect 4.x and 5.0, your point is well made.

Oh ya I remember WordPerfect.

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Fri, 23 Nov 2012 16:48:17 EDT

sholling posted :

said by darcilicious:

False. Something new is not a trick. Something different is not a trick.

Obviously you have little experience supporting users. If you have to learn a new non-obvious way of doing something it's a trick.

said by darcilicious:

and anything that cannot be seamlessly accessed via a mouse useless to most users.

Opinion.

Fact based on decades of supporting users.
--
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT--

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Fri, 23 Nov 2012 15:44:42 EDT

anon posted :

said by Kramer:

Right clicking an object to obtain and modify its properties goes back to Windows 3 at least. Once you have remembered that little "trick" you have learned how to perform thousands of different tasks on different objects. It is a "trick" with a big pay-off, which tends to help people to remember them. Even then, I doubt more then 50% of daily computer users even know what a right click does, Start Button or not. Good gracious I don't want to start an Apple v. PC war, but it is something that Apple had to be dragged kicking and screaming to embrace.

Those people doesn't even know how to uninstall software as I have to do it for them almost daily. They also ask me to put icons on their desktop. Some even come by with formatted Windows XP/Vista/7 machines with no drivers installed asking me why they can't get on the Internet or why their computer feels slow (no video drivers). It's all $$ to me though! *grin*

I know what you mean but an average computer user wouldn't be going to Control Panel every single day. They just want to get on Internet. And they will do it no problem with Windows 8.

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Fri, 23 Nov 2012 15:43:04 EDT

Kramer posted : I wouldn't say Windows 8 presents a huge number of required tricks to be remembered but I get your point. I don't know how old you are, but if you are old enough to remember WordPerfect 4.x and 5.0, your point is well made. Those were programs which worked in an effective 2000 pixel palette, with each pixel being a possible different shape. They were limited. Whether you used Wordstar, WordPerfect or even Quicken in a DOS environment, you were required to know dozens of keyboard shortcuts. There were no other options. I'll never forget sitting down in front of Wordperfect the first time. I could make no more use of it then I could a Boing 747 now. I had to learn a lot to perform the most basic functions.

When you install Windows 8, the first thing Microsoft wants to tell you during the install is how the the within the corners of your screen are hidden functions. I think that alone speaks volumes. It's no big deal though, because it is all completely ignorable.

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Fri, 23 Nov 2012 15:08:36 EDT

Corehhi posted : Right click??? Ya I bet many don't know what in He11 a right click is. I wouldn't say that's a trick but.....

I do use some "trick keys" it's when you are confronted by a huge amount of them that problems happen.

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Fri, 23 Nov 2012 15:04:24 EDT

Kramer posted :

said by Corehhi:

said by Kramer:

Pretty cool. Thanks for the link and tip contained.

This is obviously an opinion, but I think the presence of that keyboard shortcut speaks to sholling 's statement about "tricks" with which I happen to agree. That's just another trick. A nice one, a useful one, but something that few users would ever remember to use, never mind the options available. I will probably remember it because without creating a shortcut it is a quick way to get a command prompt run as an administrator. Then maybe I will remember a few other things as I go along.

I thought we were over the trick days, you know back in the day when the super geeks knew every function key short cut and every ctrl alt button combo etc. I don't want to go back to those days.

You are preaching to the choir here, not that "tricks" are bad things. It hasn't been 3 years since I embraced WINKEY-E to get a copy of Explorer up fast. I'm slow to embrace them but always pissed that I hadn't earlier. Try using Photoshop without remembering a ton of keyboard shortcuts and you will be a lot slower doing things then the person doing the same things with the shortcuts. The difference here is that shortcuts are additional methods for getting the same thing done in quicker time by more experienced users. You are using the word "trick", which at first I took no issue with, but they really aren't tricks, they are hidden features. You can't get to them at all unless you know the "trick". Razzy brought up the right click and I think that helps make my point. How many people out there still have no idea the right click does something at all? There are plenty.

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Fri, 23 Nov 2012 14:50:29 EDT

Kramer posted : Right clicking an object to obtain and modify its properties goes back to Windows 3 at least. Once you have remembered that little "trick" you have learned how to perform thousands of different tasks on different objects. It is a "trick" with a big pay-off, which tends to help people to remember them. Even then, I doubt more then 50% of daily computer users even know what a right click does, Start Button or not. Good gracious I don't want to start an Apple v. PC war, but it is something that Apple had to be dragged kicking and screaming to embrace.

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Fri, 23 Nov 2012 14:44:18 EDT

Corehhi posted :

said by Kramer:

I thought we were over the trick days, you know back in the day when the super geeks knew every function key short cut and every ctrl alt button combo etc. I don't want to go back to those days.

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Fri, 23 Nov 2012 14:37:11 EDT

anon posted : So if MS left the start button in the left hand corner would make you remember you could right click it?

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Fri, 23 Nov 2012 13:36:31 EDT

darcilicious posted :

said by sholling:

said by RazzyW8 :

....they are no tricks....

Anything that is not obvious to the average long time Windows user is a trick

False. Something new is not a trick. Something different is not a trick.

and anything that cannot be seamlessly accessed via a mouse useless to most users.

Opinion.
--
♬ Music is life ♬

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Fri, 23 Nov 2012 13:31:48 EDT

Kramer posted : Pretty cool. Thanks for the link and tip contained.

This is obviously an opinion, but I think the presence of that keyboard shortcut speaks to sholling 's statement about "tricks" with which I happen to agree. That's just another trick. A nice one, a useful one, but something that few users would ever remember to use, never mind the options available. I will probably remember it because without creating a shortcut it is a quick way to get a command prompt run as an administrator. Then maybe I will remember a few other things as I go along.

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Fri, 23 Nov 2012 13:29:02 EDT

anon posted :

said by sholling:

said by RazzyW8 :

....they are no tricks....

Anything that is not obvious to the average long time Windows user is a trick and anything that cannot be seamlessly accessed via a mouse useless to most users.

»winsupersite.com/windows-8/windo···ser-menu

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Fri, 23 Nov 2012 12:48:01 EDT

sholling posted :

said by RazzyW8 :

....they are no tricks....

Anything that is not obvious to the average long time Windows user is a trick and anything that cannot be seamlessly accessed via a mouse useless to most users.
--
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT--

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Fri, 23 Nov 2012 11:59:32 EDT

anon posted : ....they are no tricks....

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Fri, 23 Nov 2012 03:39:32 EDT

sholling posted : Most people will never learn the little tricks that you use to make Win 8 usable for you and they shouldn't have to. They really screwed the pooch on this one.
--
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT--

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Fri, 23 Nov 2012 03:36:58 EDT

sholling posted :

said by urbanriot:

Stardock has an application like Fences which does a pretty good job of corralling your icons. You can create groups of them and label the groups accordingly.

Fences rocks. I have it on all of my PCs.
--
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT--

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Thu, 22 Nov 2012 13:20:49 EDT

anon posted : I love the Windows 8's Start screen a lot more than the start menu, even after using Windows since 3.1 days. I got Windows 95 since the day it was out.

Lack of start menu does not affect me because I know where to go in a single clicks. Right click the start corner (in lower left corner of either Desktop or Metro apps) and you have access to Control Panel, CMD (with admin), Disk Management, Uninstall Programs etc etc. If you right click the start button in Windows 7, all you get is, well, basically nothing.

I do more productive work with Windows 8 than previous Windows - that is an undeniable fact.

I just wish people would stop being like this and learn why MS did this. Then you will eventually "get it" like I did. I didn't like the start screen at first. You really think MS really want to lose this? You're kidding.

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Thu, 22 Nov 2012 11:03:23 EDT

Subaru posted : ok just making sure, I was playing with some win8 laptops in staple last week I have the same feeling, it's fine but clicking where the start button would be just brings up metro again.

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Thu, 22 Nov 2012 10:53:44 EDT

trparky posted :

said by Subaru:

said by trparky:

There are definitely features in Windows 8 that I indeed like, just as there are things that I don't like; namely the Start Screen. But as many of the others in this thread have stated, I got the Start Menu back with Stardock's Start8.

Honestly, I walked into Windows 8 really wanting to hate it but with my usage of it I can't say that I hate it anymore.

You hated it less after you got the start menu back right?

Yes.
--
Tom
Boycott AT&T uVerse! | Tom's Android Blog | AOKP (The Android Open Kang Project)

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Thu, 22 Nov 2012 09:45:13 EDT

Subaru posted :

said by trparky:

You hated it less after you got the start menu back right?
--
It's NOT Ni-kon It's NE-KON!

LG is NOT Lifes Good It's Lucky Goldstar!

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Thu, 22 Nov 2012 01:55:52 EDT

trparky posted : There are definitely features in Windows 8 that I indeed like, just as there are things that I don't like; namely the Start Screen. But as many of the others in this thread have stated, I got the Start Menu back with Stardock's Start8.

Honestly, I walked into Windows 8 really wanting to hate it but with my usage of it I can't say that I hate it anymore.
--
Tom
Boycott AT&T uVerse! | Tom's Android Blog | AOKP (The Android Open Kang Project)

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Wed, 21 Nov 2012 23:33:01 EDT

Blogger posted :

said by urbanriot:

Stardock has an application like Fences which does a pretty good job of corralling your icons. You can create groups of them and label the groups accordingly.

Thanks for that tip! If for some reason I need or want icons on the desktop I'll be sure to check it out.

For now I don't like the icons on the desktop and secondarily never felt a need for them either. :)

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Wed, 21 Nov 2012 22:59:25 EDT

urbanriot posted : Stardock has an application like Fences which does a pretty good job of corralling your icons. You can create groups of them and label the groups accordingly.

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Wed, 21 Nov 2012 15:23:31 EDT

Blogger posted :

said by Mele20:

I'll have 100 or more on the desktop and all are gigantic in size and that cannot be changed just like you cannot change the size of the systray icons which is gigantic.

Wow, 100 or icons on your desktop. It's funny how people can be so different in some areas.

I keep my Win 7 PC desktop clear of all icons. All I have is the wallpaper and the task bar of course that have some icons on it.

I'm a big believer that people should have the options to have the preferences they want. If they want or like 100 icons and can do it I say more power to them.

On the other hand if I was faced with 100 icons I think I would just freeze, at least initially. Even after an acclimation to them I would still fine them very annoying.

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Wed, 21 Nov 2012 11:28:16 EDT

anon posted : I bought a cheap, low-end laptop for a friend's 4 year old daughter that arrived with Windows 8. She has had zero trouble figuring out how to download games from the Store and switch back and forth between applications.

On the other hand, as someone who has been using computers since DOS 5.0, I find that "jarring" is a good word to describe the experience sometimes when I'm in the desktop and things suddenly switch to a full-screen metro app.

I am not sold on Metro, but I can definitely see the potential once app developers are up to speed.

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:34:27 EDT

Goober posted :

said by Msradell:

said by sivran:

I like Win 8 better than 7 in fact. I still have the preview on my laptop. The lappy is too old to bother with upgrading, but I will be upgrading my main desktop to 8.

You are certainly one of the few. Would you like better about it compared to windows 7?

Count me as one of the few as well. Four machines upgraded at home, three more to go.
--
Awesome. More handouts, food stamps, welfare and entitlements to come. I'm so proud.

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:37:10 EDT

urbanriot posted :

said by Octavean:

I remember when I first started using Windows 3.0. I would constantly drop back to DOS to do many things simply because it was what I was used to.

While others dropped back to DOS because it was what you had to do, to complete certain tasks. Fortunately Microsoft improved their Windows operating system by providing considerably more functionality in Windows 95 and the necessity to drop back to DOS was fewer and further in between.

You bring up a great point, that perhaps this giant step back will lead to a step forward and Microsoft will get it right with the next operating system. They'll learn to step forward rather than step left or right.

Regardless of what people say, Microsoft botched Windows 8. The fact that some people disagree with this and others agree with this is the exact reason they botched it. All throughout the internet we have these debates between "it sucks" and "it's great, you suck" rather than a widespread praise and adoption. If the operating system was a great success it would be met with the same confetti dropping party celebrated by the majority, like what we had with Windows 95 or the neutral acceptance of Windows 7. Windows 8 adopters have mixed feelings and it's not because some people are wrong, it's because Microsoft was wrong.

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Mon, 19 Nov 2012 11:37:55 EDT

Octavean posted : The two major questions I have in the tech industry today are:

Will Intel be able to contend with the ARM initiative successfully in the future?

And

Will Microsoft be flexible enough to gain market dominance in the mobile mark as they transition away from the declining (traditional) computer market?

Dominating their respective markets is obviously a boon for as long as said markets exist but if the markets shrink significantly, change significantly or die out completely then they have dominion over nothing or nothing much.

Therefore making way for significant change is necessary or at the very lest they must split the difference and appease both sides of their respective markets.

Technology companies need to constantly answer the question of "where do we go from here" and "how do we move forward". For Microsoft seeing the changing landscape of their market, the new Windows UI AKA Metro interface was their answer.

Some users don't even understand the question that Microsoft was trying to answer though and I get their apprehension. If the computer market descends into a majority of mobile and ultra Mobile (non-traditional) computing then it will become apparent sooner or later to all.

This is basically the first iteration of the new Windows UI and while I don't really expect Microsoft to backtrack I can see it improving in future versions. Making Metro sizable rather then "full screen only" would be an intriguing option. This would or could essentially be a start menu (not start screen) with sizable live tiles. Making metro apps sizable rather then full screen only would be interesting too at least for the x86 / x64 version.

I can deal with Windows 8 just fine as it is now though.

I remember when I first started using Windows 3.0. I would constantly drop back to DOS to do many things simply because it was what I was used to. The problem wasn't with Windows 3.0 it was with me and I had no problem acknowledging that fact. I eventually got used to the changes in Windows 3.0 though and it typically took less effort to acclimate to subsequent versions of Windows over time.

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Mon, 19 Nov 2012 10:56:19 EDT

urbanriot posted :

said by digitalfutur:

Convergence between mobile and fixed devices, an irreversible trend, means that a UI has to be a consistent experience cross-platform.

That's a good point but I feel it's an irrelevant point as it presumes that every single person that uses a Windows PC will also be using a Windows Phone and a Windows Tablet when that's not at all the case now and quite frankly, people function just fine with an Android Phone, Apple iPad and Windows PC.

What we're experiencing here is a disruption to majority user satisfaction in an attempt to homogenize an experience that doesn't need it, to force people to use the environment they feel is best on all devices at the expense of what's better on each device.

I want to run the most usable PC operating system... on my PC. I don't want to run the 'jack of all trades' operating system on my PC.

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Mon, 19 Nov 2012 07:12:11 EDT

sivran posted : Making the start flag appear is not hard.

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Mon, 19 Nov 2012 00:35:18 EDT

Mele20 posted : What then about those of us who have NO mobile devices and plan to never have any? I have no need of Windows on a mobile device. I have a desktop computer that I use at home. That is the only place I wish to use the internet or anything else like Office or other applications. So, you feel I should not be able to do that? That's crazy. Some people work from their home (a blessed thing if you are that lucky), some people are elderly and choose to not run around town constantly, and others cannot do that because of physical limitations as they age...should they not be able to use a computer because desktops disappear and only what works on a tiny cell phone that they have zero use for is forced on the desktop user? That's simply crazy.

Trying your tricks, adding Desktop toolbar gives me, IN THE WRONG LOCATION, a NON bolded popup menu. I can't read it except with difficulty...faint text and I haven't gone in the registry yet to force Windows to use readable Verdana font instead of the very difficult to read MS Segue font. All my other menus are bolded ...why doesn't the Desktop toolbar one bold?

Your other trick is almost impossible to do because it is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to get that bunch of tight little tiles that you can barely see to appear in the bottom left corner and if you can FINALLY get them to appear they disappear almost INSTANTLY and then they will not appear again for many minutes or hours. So, you do not have time to right click there before the tiny tiles disappear. That is of no use unless you can tell me how to have that group of tiny tiles appear permanently in the lower left corner. Why do they disappear anyway? I hate stuff that comes and goes. It should be there permanently or not there at all.

As for using the Start menu to shut down...who shuts down a computer? I never shut down a computer unless going on vacation (where I take no computer because the point of a vacation is to get away from the house and from computers). So, I don't use the Start menu to shut down on any version of Windows. The start menu is for all navigation not for shutting down! Any other navigation of Windows should be done in Explorer tree as that is what Explorer is for (after unhiding all hidden files of course). I have no idea how to shut this new computer down as I have no need to learn where to do that as I am not planning a vacation anytime soon.

--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Mon, 19 Nov 2012 00:27:12 EDT

Mele20 posted :

said by dave:

said by Maven:

Win8's start screen is basically a full screen start menu. You can see more shortcuts without having to go through a hierarchy of folders. I'm not sure how that could be perceived as worse than the start menu.

"Full screen". That's how. It's jarring, like full-screen DOS in shitty old DOS-based Windows.

Instead, we get a bunch of knee jerk reactions and parroting of the tech blogs.

You seem to have made up your mind that it's impossible for anyone to have tried it for a while and still disliked it.

A bunch of extremely garish, very hard on the eyes, colored tiles is not a Start screen! Most of us plan to NEVER go to Metro side of Win 8 if we can possibly avoid it. It might not be too horrible if I could ditch the hideous colors and set up the colors I like instead of the ones Microsoft is determined to push down my throat...never matter that not only are they very ugly but extremely hard on my eyes...those garish colors are for teen age eyes only.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Mon, 19 Nov 2012 00:27:10 EDT

digitalfutur posted : If you add the desktop toolbar to the taskbar, all your desktop icons and folders are listed in a vertical menu, with flyouts for sub-menus along with:

*Libraries
*My Docs (under %Username% Files)
*Computer
*Network
*Control Panel
*Homegroup

Right-clicking/tapping on the mini start-menu in the bottom left of the desktop adds:

*Programs and Features
*Power Options
*Event Viewer
*System
*Device Manager
*Disk Management
*Computer Management
*Command Prompt
*Command Prompt (Admin)
*Task Manager
*File Explorer
*Search

This is far more functionality that the pre Win8 Start Menu.

Most users use the Start Menu only to shutdown. Every other function is done either by desktop shortcuts, browser links or responding to system prompts.

Sinofsky is right about removing the Start Menu in that Windows 8 is a necessary interim step to eliminating the desktop altogether in favor of the modern UI. A task master like Sinofsky often doesn't fit in after the job (Windows 7/8 rollout) is done - managing a steady-state operation requires a different skillset that taskmasters usually can't adapt to. That's why he was let go...his time was up.

Convergence between mobile and fixed devices, an irreversible trend, means that a UI has to be a consistent experience cross-platform. It isn't now, by market share the vast majority of users have different UI and experience on their mobile device than they do on their fixed device; and they certainly have not had a problem adapting to it. They'll get used to the Windows 8 interface as well.

Microsoft is the only company that can leverage its installed Windows base, XBox console, WindowsPhone and Surface tablets with a common user experience. No other company has that breadth of consumer penetration. That's why Windows 8 and the modern UI is the right way to go.
--
Logic requires one to deal with decisions that one's ego will not permit.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke.

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Sun, 18 Nov 2012 22:38:32 EDT

dave posted :

said by signmeuptoo:

We should have multiple options just as Linux has various options such as KDE, GNOME, XFCE, and so on.

Then Windows could at last achieve the market penetration of Linux desktops!

Basically, decently-integrated GUI apps need to be written for a particular desktop. Multiple GUIs = market fragmentation. Apps is what sells the OS, so multiple desktops will be bad for app developers and thus bad for Microsoft. [Warning: I don't do GUIs, so this is a layman's observation only].

Notice how many 3rd-party desktop environments exist for Windows? And yet it seems like it's just one line in the Windows registry to bring up an entirely different shell, should someone care to sell one.

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Sun, 18 Nov 2012 22:28:31 EDT

OZO posted :

said by signmeuptoo:

Windows OS could learn something from the various X Windows interfaces: There should be more choice of interfaces, interfaces should be more accomdating to a greater variety of skill levels. We should have multiple options just as Linux has various options such as KDE, GNOME, XFCE, and so on. There should be different desktop environments for different people. Pros should have something that suits them. Ma and Pa Kettle should have something for the helpless. The 12 year old wise ass kid should have something. The blind and disabled should have something. There should be several DEs and just as you purchase the OS, but at a lower price, the DE should be sold separately and at a low price.

And that's exactly what I've been telling here on this forum for years. OS is not the Windows Explorer or how does it look. OS doesn't look at all, if you will... It's comprised of several basic components, which allow to run applications, that users need, on hardware known as PC. It's first of all hardware virtualization support layer, task schedulers, process and memory management, file system(s), interface components (network, USB, ...), etc.

OS should be separated from a program, representing desktop window (like Windows Explorer). This separation requirement is not revolutionary in any way. It's the way how it's done, in many other OS's, including e.g. Linux. Just buy Windows OS (let's call it kernel) with desktop package, that you need. Users should always have options of selecting desktop environment, that could better fit to their particular needs. Why it is so difficult to understand (completely rhetorical question here)...

If they offered OS, separated from desktop program, I could be in first lines of customers, who are willing to by it. I just don't like and/or need the bundle, forced on me in the latest Windows 8.
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Sun, 18 Nov 2012 22:15:12 EDT

dave posted :

said by Maven:

"Full screen". That's how. It's jarring, like full-screen DOS in shitty old DOS-based Windows.

Instead, we get a bunch of knee jerk reactions and parroting of the tech blogs.

You seem to have made up your mind that it's impossible for anyone to have tried it for a while and still disliked it.

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Sun, 18 Nov 2012 20:36:34 EDT

urbanriot posted :

said by darcilicious:

I'm just surprised you know what I have on my desktop and that you got it so wrong

Excellent, we're on the same page now. Take your most recent response and apply it to your first post in the thread.

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Sun, 18 Nov 2012 20:35:52 EDT

Maven posted : Win8's start screen is basically a full screen start menu. You can see more shortcuts without having to go through a hierarchy of folders. I'm not sure how that could be perceived as worse than the start menu.

I wish people would kick back and evaluate what Microsoft is bringing to the table. Instead, we get a bunch of knee jerk reactions and parroting of the tech blogs.

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Sun, 18 Nov 2012 20:31:50 EDT

Mele20 posted :

said by urbanriot:

said by darcilicious:

What is so hard about adding a shortcut to the desktop and/or the taskbar?

It's disturbing that you have 30+ icons on your desktop and taskbar. I'm guessing signmeuptoo's not as disorganized as you are which is probably why your way is hard for organized people.

I'll have 100 or more on the desktop and all are gigantic in size and that cannot be changed just like you cannot change the size of the systray icons which is gigantic. That is Caption button and Microsoft removed the ability to make Advanced Display/Items list changes except for a few items and Captions buttons is not one of them. You can't even choose how you want your icons spaced...insane of Microsoft!

All the desktop icons I'll have cannot be hidden as I have hidden/unhidden with Desk Sweeper (tiny free program that runs at Start in the systray) since Windows 95. It works on ALL versions of Windows except Win 8 (installs ok but won't hide the desktop icons).

As for typing the name of the program you want to find it...well, it is obvious that a 15 year old came up with that insane idea. As people age, even if they have no signs of dementia, they have so called "senior moments" when their mind goes blank and they can't recall the name of the program! What are they supposed to do? Not use computers anymore? Wait until they finally recall the name? Start/programs lists is a godsend for older folks...why torture older folks by taking this away? Make it OPTIONAL and young folks can avoid it because they are addicted to only shiny and new which is fine but why are only young people expected to use Windows 8? Microsoft needs to listen to its Windows Panelists and it doesn't.

(Excuse the typing...this keyboard has terrible lag...or maybe it is Win 8 with the lag...I'm going to hookup my far superior, but ancient keyboard and see if it is this crap new Multimedia low keys keyboard with the lag or Windows 8).
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Sun, 18 Nov 2012 20:28:38 EDT

darcilicious posted :

said by urbanriot:

... which is odd, since you even quoted me quoting you!

I'm just surprised you know what I have on my desktop and that you got it so wrong :D

You quoted me and then attributed something to me that has no basis in reality :) So I find your post even odder...
--
♬ Music is life ♬

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Sun, 18 Nov 2012 20:26:59 EDT

urbanriot posted : ... which is odd, since you even quoted me quoting you!

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Sun, 18 Nov 2012 20:26:42 EDT

darcilicious posted :

said by SilentMan:

said by darcilicious:

said by signmeuptoo:

The exploration/access/navigation every since Win98, has become more and more annoyingly laberinthine

:
:
What is so hard about adding a shortcut to the desktop and/or the taskbar?

That tells you right there that the Metro thing is useless and unnecessary when you have to add things to the task bar and to the desktop in order to avoid dealing with the Metro nonsense.

It's the same thing that I do in Windows 7, one of the post Win98 OS's that the OP is complaining about...
--
♬ Music is life ♬

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Sun, 18 Nov 2012 20:25:50 EDT

darcilicious posted :

said by urbanriot:

said by darcilicious:

What is so hard about adding a shortcut to the desktop and/or the taskbar?

It's disturbing that you have 30+ icons on your desktop and taskbar. I'm guessing signmeuptoo's not as disorganized as you are which is probably why your way is hard for organized people.

Say what? I think you must have me confused with someone else...
--
♬ Music is life ♬

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Sun, 18 Nov 2012 20:23:25 EDT

SilentMan posted :

said by darcilicious:

said by signmeuptoo:

The exploration/access/navigation every since Win98, has become more and more annoyingly laberinthine

:
:
What is so hard about adding a shortcut to the desktop and/or the taskbar?

That tells you right there that the Metro thing is useless and unnecessary when you have to add things to the task bar and to the desktop in order to avoid dealing with the Metro nonsense.

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Sun, 18 Nov 2012 20:17:57 EDT

Mele20 posted : I can live with the lack of a Start menu (but I will probably add Classic Start). What I cannot live with in Win 8 is the horrific fact that Microsoft has seen fit to deny me the right to make necessary adjustments to Windows display. To remove Advanced Display/Items list and require me to make very complicated registry changes just to make simple adjustments borders on the criminal in my opinion. I now hope Microsoft goes bankrupt. To give the middle finger to ADA (and those horrible accessibility themes are NOT an adequate answer) is to show extremely bad judgement. I don't need a garish, extremely difficult to read "accessibility" theme. I need the Items list restored in Advanced display. I have a thread here asking for help in how to change the registry item that controls a hideous, very difficult on the eyes, blue color that Microsoft has made unadjustable in Win 8 because of removing Items list. I have had no replies that help me fix this. Microsoft has placed PIECES of the Items list strewn about in various areas of Windows 8 but has completely left out many things on the Items list forcing one to make the changes in the Registry and I have no idea how to do it as I don't know what Dword or string controls the color I need or controls Caption buttons, etc.

I like Win 8 in several ways...if I could fix the horrible display problems (even choosing a READABLE font for Windows is now IMPOSSIBLE unless you make complicated Registry changes! That is insane...you get a windows 8 computer and cannot read anything without difficulty and burning, stinging cloudy vision and you cannot change the font to one that is readable ...Verdana... unless you make changes in the Registry. Whoever removed Items list from Advanced Display should be shot and then slowly tortured to death and I want to do the torturing).

I am not sure how to exercise my downgrade rights. I bought Win 8 Pro so I could downgrade if necessary...at least until Microsoft comes to its senses and gives us back Advanced Display/Items list. I have no Win 8 Pro Reinstallation disk from Dell but I have requested one but I will also need a Win 7 Pro installation disk and I don't know exactly how to get that. Plus, downgrading will mean a terrible search. Search in Win 8 is great but horrible in Vista/Win 7.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

Re: [WIN8] With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Window

Sun, 18 Nov 2012 20:12:53 EDT

urbanriot posted :

said by darcilicious:

What is so hard about adding a shortcut to the desktop and/or the taskbar?

It's disturbing that you have 30+ icons on your desktop and taskbar. I'm guessing signmeuptoo's not as disorganized as you are which is probably why your way is hard for organized people.