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howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

2 recommendations

Win8 - Disappointing usability

Jakob Nielsen is a well-known usability expert who recently tested Windows 8 on regular desktops and Surface.

quote:
Summary:
Hidden features, reduced discoverability, cognitive overhead from dual environments, and reduced power from a single-window UI and low information density.

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dellsweig
Extreme Aerobatics
Premium,MVM
join:2003-12-10
Campbell Hall, NY
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to howardfine

Re: Win8 - Disappointing usability

said by howardfine:

Jakob Nielsen is a well-known usability expert who recently tested Windows 8 on regular desktops and Surface.

quote:
Summary:
Hidden features, reduced discoverability, cognitive overhead from dual environments, and reduced power from a single-window UI and low information density.

Excellent read

A close friend bought a new laptop last week with Win8 on it. She is an experienced windows user.

Her assessment completely matched the drunk woman review

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cMVKW-f···embedded


She read this article and is taking it with her to Best Buy when she returns her new laptop. She is not sure what she is going to do but may be swayed to Apple......
--
Nothin' left to do but smile smile smile


workablob

join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX
kudos:3
reply to howardfine

Good Post Howard!

Dave



mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
Premium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON
reply to howardfine

Baloney, Baloney, Baloney and more Baloney.


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to howardfine

I have never used multiple windows in 14 years. I HATE that...too distracting so I guess I like that Win 8 doesn't have them. I have no idea how you would even go about having multiple windows open at the same time. I use a 19" LCD at 5:4 ratio. It is perfect but how would I do multiple windows on it? That is for movie watching monitors and I don't watch movies on a computer so I don't have a wide screen monitor, thus, no distracting multiple windows.

I couldn't relate to anything in that article except the accidental mouse gestures that very frequently bring up a GIGANTIC, and I mean Gigantic clock and that obscure my vertical scroll bar in my browser with a big fat black vertical bar and that horrible Trinkets, oh, charms crap(insulting name ...obviously only for very low IQ folks...trinkets, charms...come ON....geez....).

I couldn't relate to anything else because why in God's name would I ever use Metro...garish colors that hurt my eyes and absolute crap with animated garbage that I can't stop the animation and gives a migraine headache (I have all animation turned off permanently on the Desktop except for Metro...Microsoft has never heard of migraine triggers I guess). But that article was about Metro...you have to totally ignore Metro unless you like going insane.. Stay on desktop ALWAYS and desktop in Win 8 is pretty good.

But I will probably either exercise my downgrade rights to Win 7 Pro or return this computer to Dell if Dell gets prissy about my downgrade rights.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



dellsweig
Extreme Aerobatics
Premium,MVM
join:2003-12-10
Campbell Hall, NY
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to mozerd

said by mozerd:

Baloney, Baloney, Baloney and more Baloney.

Huh?? I am looking at my windows 8 (vm) right now and agree COMPLETLY with this assessment...... I had to switch to a windows 7 VM to write this response!!!

I cannot imagine trying to teach my 80 year old parents how to use this or to support the 20 or so friends and family members who I support with remote help on their PC's..

I also cannnot imagine this ever seeing the light of day in the enterprise
--
Nothin' left to do but smile smile smile


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
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Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to howardfine

said by howardfine:

Jakob Nielsen is a well-known usability expert who recently tested Windows 8 on regular desktops and Surface.

Interesting read and I agree with much of what he writes. If Windows had a more homogeneous experience between itself and third party applications, some of what he wrote would not be accurate. If everyone used Windows 8 RT with Microsoft Office 2013 on Surface, the criticisms might not be so apt. Unfortunately there is an interface discrepancy between Microsoft's Metro applications and everything else.

I still chuckle that Microsoft went from Start | Shutdown to swipe | settings | power | shutdown. Usability indeed!


Michail
Premium
join:2000-08-02
Boynton Beach, FL
kudos:1
reply to howardfine

said by howardfine:

Jakob Nielsen is a well-known usability expert who recently tested Windows 8 on regular desktops and Surface.

quote:
Summary:
Hidden features, reduced discoverability, cognitive overhead from dual environments, and reduced power from a single-window UI and low information density.

I feel like I could have written that. I've made some complaints here before on some of his points.

The information density is something that has also bothered me. Similar apps on my little iPhone have much better use than they do on the Windows 8 desktop. As a developer I've always designed my apps to take advantage of as much resolution, or as little, that the user is willing to give me.

IMHO, Microsoft has gone overboard with the "simple". This goes for much of what they are producing these days. And I'm generally a fan of simple -- when it doesn't come at the cost of functionality.

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
reply to dellsweig

said by dellsweig:

said by howardfine:

Jakob Nielsen is a well-known usability expert who recently tested Windows 8 on regular desktops and Surface.

quote:
Summary:
Hidden features, reduced discoverability, cognitive overhead from dual environments, and reduced power from a single-window UI and low information density.

Excellent read

A close friend bought a new laptop last week with Win8 on it. She is an experienced windows user.

Her assessment completely matched the drunk woman review

(youtube clip)
read this article and is taking it with her to Best Buy when she returns her new laptop. She is not sure what she is going to do but may be swayed to Apple......

Makes sense to me - the Windows 8 UI is horrible from a usability perspective. Garish colors, over the top huge fonts, a dual environment that look nothing like each other. It's a really BAD paradigm that is not good or easy to use.

Take live tiles. Sounds great but what happens when you want to see what you missed? Oops, you can't scroll that. What happens if you don't want to be distracted by things scrolling (think Facebook updates), oops, can't disable that.

I did notice a lot of PC laptop returns at Best Buy the other day. Hopefully consumers are realizing that this new Windows is really really bad.

I would suggest a Mac to your friend. Not the cheapest but competitive and the OS is actually easy to use and IMHO you can be more productive on OS X than Windows (any version).


dellsweig
Extreme Aerobatics
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join:2003-12-10
Campbell Hall, NY
kudos:1

1 edit

said by itguy05:

Makes sense to me - the Windows 8 UI is horrible from a usability perspective. Garish colors, over the top huge fonts, a dual environment that look nothing like each other. It's a really BAD paradigm that is not good or easy to use.

Take live tiles. Sounds great but what happens when you want to see what you missed? Oops, you can't scroll that. What happens if you don't want to be distracted by things scrolling (think Facebook updates), oops, can't disable that.

I did notice a lot of PC laptop returns at Best Buy the other day. Hopefully consumers are realizing that this new Windows is really really bad.

I would suggest a Mac to your friend. Not the cheapest but competitive and the OS is actually easy to use and IMHO you can be more productive on OS X than Windows (any version).

Just heard back from my friend - she said there were at least 6 pther returns being handled by the BB sales folks for windows 8 laptops. Once she got done with the return the sale guy told her they are getting close to 60% ( 6 out of 10 are coming back BECAUSE of windows 8) returns on windows 8.

She ended up with a MacBook Air - good choice. The best buy guy set it all up for her.....

It isnt just Best Buy..

»www.engadget.com/2012/11/19/wind···es-OEMs/

--
Nothin' left to do but smile smile smile


HFB1217
The Wizard
Premium,ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-26
Camelot
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to howardfine

Excellent Article and it puts into words exactly what I felt but was unable to put my finger upon it. Sort of like what Windows 8 does to the usability quotient!

One thing I like though is Spell Check on the Fly it was well past over do.
--
*****aka The WIZARD *****A Founding member of Seti BBR Team Starfire***

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La Luna
RIP Lisa
Premium
join:2001-07-12
Warwick, NY
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to howardfine

Re: Win8 - Disappointing usability

I don't have Windows 8, so I can't speak from personal experience, but from all I've read, it seems to me that a LOT of people just don't give themselves the chance or the time to learn such a different OS. Returning computers after just a week is just giving up too quickly, IMO. It's no secret that Windows 8 was going to be incredibly different from previous OS's, so I don't know why people are surprised by this, and then bitch and complain about it. This is what happens when the masses want zero learning curve. Too much trouble to learn something new. I remember when XP was released, people freaked out about that too.
--
The Alien in the White House

19,994 DEADLY TERROR ATTACKS SINCE 9/11

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Kerodo

join:2004-05-08
reply to La Luna

Re: Win8 - Disappointing usability

It's not simply that 8 is something new to learn. That's not the problem. It's poorly designed. And to top it off, it forces something on desktop and laptop users (Metro) that is totally inappropriate for non touch machines. I can't believe how many people keep trying to defend something that's sure to go down in flames... But that's life in the computing world I guess...


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

We have no touch devices at home other than for a couple of Android tablets. Yet we seem to do just fine with Windows 8, including my 10, 13 and 15 year old kids.

If you're implying that we're geniuses, then yes, why we certainly are. At least compared to the other people I'm reading about in these forums.
--
Awesome. More handouts, food stamps, welfare and entitlements to come. I'm so proud.



Kilroy
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-21
Saint Paul, MN

1 edit
reply to Anon


+1
Most of the complaints that I've seen about Windows 8 are it is different and I don't like it. Sorry, that is progress. Adapt or die. I was drug kicking and screaming into Windows, way back in the DOS days. Then what happened was you could get a program for DOS or $10 more for the Windows version with 1,000 fonts, more features, and so on. Since Windows 3 I've bought the latest version on release day along with a new drive to install. Being in IT I have to know the latest, I don't have to like it. Windows 8 takes a little adjustment to get used to, but there aren't any major defects with it. This is Microsoft's every other tock release and it is very different, visually, from the previous version, but underneath it is pretty much the same.

What I'm seeing is that Microsoft wants to head in the Apple direction. They are making hardware, software, and have an app store. I don't think it is the right direction, being that they are so late to the game. Obviously someone sold the idea that we need to have a unified OS that applies to phones, tablets, and computers. I think you lose too much on the computer side to make the look and feel the same as the lower powered devices.
--
“Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something.” ¯ Robert A. Heinlein


Kerodo

join:2004-05-08
reply to Badonkadonk

It's interesting to see the arguments for and against. I really think there are many reasons that can be cited on both sides, but we have to accept the basic bottom line... and that is, that some people will like it, and some won't. I have been an MS supporter for decades since they first began, but I'm sorry, I don't like 8. I think it's a big mistake for them. The market should settle things one way or the other in time....



howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

1 recommendation

reply to Kilroy

said by Kilroy:

+1
Most of the complaints that I've seen about Windows 8 are it is different and I don't like it. Sorry, that is progress.


That article and study is not about it being different. It's about usability. The ability to find things, make it work and so on. Not about it being different.


Michail
Premium
join:2000-08-02
Boynton Beach, FL
kudos:1

said by howardfine:

said by Kilroy:

+1
Most of the complaints that I've seen about Windows 8 are it is different and I don't like it. Sorry, that is progress.


That article and study is not about it being different. It's about usability. The ability to find things and so on. Not that users complained about it being different.

I agree. I've been using Windows 8 for several months now. There are things about it I like but those are overshadowed by the usability issues.

BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3
reply to La Luna

I used it for a weeks on a pc, and not in a virtual machine. Unlike some people here who haven't even figured out how to shutdown the machine yet I figured out the interface quickly, and it was not intuitive, it was a step backwards for ease of use.

I also had to disable fast start up to allow me to actually boot back into my stable operating system since it silently uses hibernation by default which will be problematic when trying to fix problems as it forces you back into the Win 8 loader if you need to boot another os not on it's software bootloader or bootable cd.

It would be a good os, but the new gui over the desktop is the problem, hiding things which should not be hidden.

XP wasn't that different than 9x visually, and worked very similarly. Even vista wasn't a big change, it forced people to start using software as a user account for their own protection, however even with xp most idiotic companies were still writing software meant to be ran as a full admin even if it was something like a game which really didn't always need full admin access. Win 7 was well accepted for the most part as it was similar also, but changed how the taskbar worked. Win 8 metro is crap.

We shouldn't have to manually disable all those metro applications from being the default programs, and their idea to replace the start menu with metro idea was generally a bad one for desktops. I however have been using toolbars on the taskbar for years, since the days of 9x. Those live tiles should have been available on the desktop as they said they were supposed to replace gadgets, well they sure don't on the metro screen.
--
I distrust those people who know so well what god wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires- Susan B. Anthony
Yesterday we obeyed kings, and bent out necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to the truth- Kahlil G.


HappyFrappy

join:2000-10-04
North
reply to urbanriot

said by urbanriot:

I still chuckle that Microsoft went from Start | Shutdown to swipe | settings | power | shutdown. Usability indeed!

My dad gave up trying to find "shut down/reboot" on Windows 8 and just pulls the power plug from the wall to turn off his new desktop PC
At least he spent extra for Dell's extended warranty with on-site, I'll find entertainment at how many "parts" are fried with this shut down concept

Riamen
Premium
join:2002-11-04
Calgary
reply to howardfine

I've been using Windows 8 on my work-issued laptop for a month and a half now. I don't find it difficult to understand or use but I don't see it being an improvement either. I have to agree with just about everything in the linked article. There's a huge disconnect between the Modern UI and the desktop. I understand Microsoft's motivation but I think this is gong to be a failure on the desktop.



La Luna
RIP Lisa
Premium
join:2001-07-12
Warwick, NY
kudos:3
reply to Kerodo

said by Kerodo:

It's not simply that 8 is something new to learn. That's not the problem. It's poorly designed. And to top it off, it forces something on desktop and laptop users (Metro) that is totally inappropriate for non touch machines. I can't believe how many people keep trying to defend something that's sure to go down in flames... But that's life in the computing world I guess...

Well, as I said, I haven't used it, so can't comment personally. But I DO see alot of posts, here and elsewhere, from people who love Windows 8, have taken the time to figure it out and have it working the way they want it to. It's not impossible, but it DOES take learning/experimenting. "Sure to go down in flames....." is a tad premature I think.

I don't care if people use it or not, I just don't think they should go into it with a negative attitude, that does nothing but enable failure.
--
The Alien in the White House

19,994 DEADLY TERROR ATTACKS SINCE 9/11


howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

said by La Luna:

...people who love Windows 8, have taken the time to figure it out and have it working the way they want it to. It's not impossible, but it DOES take learning/experimenting.

That's what the article and study is about. The time and ability to figure it out.

Kerodo

join:2004-05-08
reply to La Luna

Perhaps it is a bit premature to speak of it's failure at this point... That's just my personal opinion as to where it's headed. I don't think people go into it with a negative attitude either. I think they start out with an open mind, but are then disappointed pretty quickly. Sure, anyone can eventually get used to it in time, I did myself after using it for a few weeks. But that doesn't speak too well for it really. One can get "used to" almost anything, but should we have to? Or should it be a better design and more intuitive interface with some consistency with the past?

Again, I think the market will judge things and speak for itself in time...


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

1 recommendation

reply to HappyFrappy

said by HappyFrappy:

said by urbanriot:

I still chuckle that Microsoft went from Start | Shutdown to swipe | settings | power | shutdown. Usability indeed!

My dad gave up trying to find "shut down/reboot" on Windows 8 and just pulls the power plug from the wall to turn off his new desktop PC
At least he spent extra for Dell's extended warranty with on-site, I'll find entertainment at how many "parts" are fried with this shut down concept

You should let your dad know that a quick press of the power button will also shut down the computer, but in an orderly fashion. Either that, or wait until this one fries so he can get himself a Mac. That's what people use when they aren't technically too knowledgeable. That's why I got my parents an iPad. Simple to use and ignorance of technology poses no problem.
--
Awesome. More handouts, food stamps, welfare and entitlements to come. I'm so proud.