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Kerodo

join:2004-05-08
reply to Badonkadonk

Re: Win8 - Disappointing usability

It's interesting to see the arguments for and against. I really think there are many reasons that can be cited on both sides, but we have to accept the basic bottom line... and that is, that some people will like it, and some won't. I have been an MS supporter for decades since they first began, but I'm sorry, I don't like 8. I think it's a big mistake for them. The market should settle things one way or the other in time....



howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

1 recommendation

reply to Kilroy

said by Kilroy:

+1
Most of the complaints that I've seen about Windows 8 are it is different and I don't like it. Sorry, that is progress.


That article and study is not about it being different. It's about usability. The ability to find things, make it work and so on. Not about it being different.


Michail
Premium
join:2000-08-02
Boynton Beach, FL
kudos:1

said by howardfine:

said by Kilroy:

+1
Most of the complaints that I've seen about Windows 8 are it is different and I don't like it. Sorry, that is progress.


That article and study is not about it being different. It's about usability. The ability to find things and so on. Not that users complained about it being different.

I agree. I've been using Windows 8 for several months now. There are things about it I like but those are overshadowed by the usability issues.

BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3
reply to La Luna

I used it for a weeks on a pc, and not in a virtual machine. Unlike some people here who haven't even figured out how to shutdown the machine yet I figured out the interface quickly, and it was not intuitive, it was a step backwards for ease of use.

I also had to disable fast start up to allow me to actually boot back into my stable operating system since it silently uses hibernation by default which will be problematic when trying to fix problems as it forces you back into the Win 8 loader if you need to boot another os not on it's software bootloader or bootable cd.

It would be a good os, but the new gui over the desktop is the problem, hiding things which should not be hidden.

XP wasn't that different than 9x visually, and worked very similarly. Even vista wasn't a big change, it forced people to start using software as a user account for their own protection, however even with xp most idiotic companies were still writing software meant to be ran as a full admin even if it was something like a game which really didn't always need full admin access. Win 7 was well accepted for the most part as it was similar also, but changed how the taskbar worked. Win 8 metro is crap.

We shouldn't have to manually disable all those metro applications from being the default programs, and their idea to replace the start menu with metro idea was generally a bad one for desktops. I however have been using toolbars on the taskbar for years, since the days of 9x. Those live tiles should have been available on the desktop as they said they were supposed to replace gadgets, well they sure don't on the metro screen.
--
I distrust those people who know so well what god wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires- Susan B. Anthony
Yesterday we obeyed kings, and bent out necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to the truth- Kahlil G.


HappyFrappy

join:2000-10-04
North
reply to urbanriot

said by urbanriot:

I still chuckle that Microsoft went from Start | Shutdown to swipe | settings | power | shutdown. Usability indeed!

My dad gave up trying to find "shut down/reboot" on Windows 8 and just pulls the power plug from the wall to turn off his new desktop PC
At least he spent extra for Dell's extended warranty with on-site, I'll find entertainment at how many "parts" are fried with this shut down concept

Riamen
Premium
join:2002-11-04
Calgary
reply to howardfine

I've been using Windows 8 on my work-issued laptop for a month and a half now. I don't find it difficult to understand or use but I don't see it being an improvement either. I have to agree with just about everything in the linked article. There's a huge disconnect between the Modern UI and the desktop. I understand Microsoft's motivation but I think this is gong to be a failure on the desktop.



La Luna
Survived Ashraful
Premium
join:2001-07-12
Warwick, NY
kudos:3
reply to Kerodo

said by Kerodo:

It's not simply that 8 is something new to learn. That's not the problem. It's poorly designed. And to top it off, it forces something on desktop and laptop users (Metro) that is totally inappropriate for non touch machines. I can't believe how many people keep trying to defend something that's sure to go down in flames... But that's life in the computing world I guess...

Well, as I said, I haven't used it, so can't comment personally. But I DO see alot of posts, here and elsewhere, from people who love Windows 8, have taken the time to figure it out and have it working the way they want it to. It's not impossible, but it DOES take learning/experimenting. "Sure to go down in flames....." is a tad premature I think.

I don't care if people use it or not, I just don't think they should go into it with a negative attitude, that does nothing but enable failure.
--
The Alien in the White House

19,994 DEADLY TERROR ATTACKS SINCE 9/11


howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

said by La Luna:

...people who love Windows 8, have taken the time to figure it out and have it working the way they want it to. It's not impossible, but it DOES take learning/experimenting.

That's what the article and study is about. The time and ability to figure it out.

Kerodo

join:2004-05-08
reply to La Luna

Perhaps it is a bit premature to speak of it's failure at this point... That's just my personal opinion as to where it's headed. I don't think people go into it with a negative attitude either. I think they start out with an open mind, but are then disappointed pretty quickly. Sure, anyone can eventually get used to it in time, I did myself after using it for a few weeks. But that doesn't speak too well for it really. One can get "used to" almost anything, but should we have to? Or should it be a better design and more intuitive interface with some consistency with the past?

Again, I think the market will judge things and speak for itself in time...


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

1 recommendation

reply to HappyFrappy

said by HappyFrappy:

said by urbanriot:

I still chuckle that Microsoft went from Start | Shutdown to swipe | settings | power | shutdown. Usability indeed!

My dad gave up trying to find "shut down/reboot" on Windows 8 and just pulls the power plug from the wall to turn off his new desktop PC
At least he spent extra for Dell's extended warranty with on-site, I'll find entertainment at how many "parts" are fried with this shut down concept

You should let your dad know that a quick press of the power button will also shut down the computer, but in an orderly fashion. Either that, or wait until this one fries so he can get himself a Mac. That's what people use when they aren't technically too knowledgeable. That's why I got my parents an iPad. Simple to use and ignorance of technology poses no problem.
--
Awesome. More handouts, food stamps, welfare and entitlements to come. I'm so proud.


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to howardfine

said by howardfine:

said by La Luna:

...people who love Windows 8, have taken the time to figure it out and have it working the way they want it to. It's not impossible, but it DOES take learning/experimenting.

That's what the article and study is about. The time and ability to figure it out.

I agree with the above. While I have not used it fully as my OS at home yet (still waiting for McAfee to release Patch 3 for VSE 8.8), I do plan to switch to it once Patch 3 comes out.

Sure, things may be different, and not in the same place it was in Windows 7 (or previous versions). But, instead of turning it on and yelling "THIS SUCKS, Microsoft is so dumb", if these people took the TIME to sit down with an open mind and embraced the new OS, they would be a lot happier.

I will admit I was one of those "WTF is this Metro thing" when I first saw it. I will also admit that I when I first saw Windows 7 (went from XP to 7, as I skipped Vista), I did the same thing. I was sitting there yelling at my monitor, as everything was moved and different. I was actually getting really frustrated with my computer.

But you know what? After the initial shock of "Where the Heck did they move X to" was over, I took the time to figure it out. I read the online posts of the new changes in Windows 7, where things were at...I talked to friends and co-workers, I read and posted on this forum. And you know what? I love Windows 7. I think it is one of the best (and most stable) OS's that Microsoft has released to date. Once I do switch to Windows 8, I will do the same thing. Research, learn, figure out, embrace, and enjoy Windows 8.

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail


howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

Then you missed the part about using it and figuring it out. I think you are talking about dealing with it and getting used to it rather than using something that makes sense in the first place.


Kerodo

join:2004-05-08

Exactly... Using something that makes sense in the first place is progress... Dealing with and getting used to something is often a step backwards.....

Expand your moderator at work


digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2
reply to Riamen

Re: Win8 - Disappointing usability

It won't be a "failure" on the desktop because the desktop is eventually going away. The GUI you see on WindowsPhone and XBox is the future. That doesn't mean there won't be any traditional Windows apps on desktops, they'll just all launch from the modern UI.
--
Logic requires one to deal with decisions that one's ego will not permit.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke.



digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2
reply to dellsweig

A few returns do not a trend make, especially when the price premium for Apple is 30-50% more than Windows. It's a lot of extra money to pay for being unable or unwilling to spend 15 minutes learning a few mouse clicks or keyboard shortcuts on Windows 8.

Given Apple's 7% global market share for desktops, most people aren't going to flock to OS X and its variants.
--
Logic requires one to deal with decisions that one's ego will not permit.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke.


Kerodo

join:2004-05-08
reply to digitalfutur

Ok, let's forget desktops for the moment... What about laptops with no touch interface? Are those going away soon too?

Everything is going away eventually... no exceptions. But isn't it a mistake to produce a product that acts like the desktop is already gone when it's not?

MS could/should have worked thru this for a while, and come up with a much better and smoother transition for us... That would have been appreciated.


HappyFrappy

join:2000-10-04
North
reply to Badonkadonk

said by Badonkadonk:

You should let your dad know that a quick press of the power button will also shut down the computer, but in an orderly fashion. Either that, or wait until this one fries so he can get himself a Mac. That's what people use when they aren't technically too knowledgeable. That's why I got my parents an iPad. Simple to use and ignorance of technology poses no problem.

Interesting thing is on his dual-booting Thinkpad T420 the Lenovo "power manager" gives him three choices with a power button press like Windows XP/Vista/7. Dell on the other hand dumps the PC into sleep... I guess Dell/Microsoft prefers desktop computers to run 24/7 eh?

My mum hops between Mac/Windows like myself, dad on the other hand is a Windows/Blackberry user... you know BB Desktop is non-existant on OS X, its a POS 3rd party "sync" app and Outlook on the Mac is a joke like the former Entourage.

The "smart" move for Microsoft should have been discontinue "Windows for Desktop" and just market Windows 8 for Touch Screen & Tablet PCs... problem solved, then scrap 32-bit Windows and migrate to ARM w/x64 instruction set for Windows 9

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

I run all my machines 24/7. They go into sleep/hibernate at predesignated intervals. But I don't ever shut them down.

Wow, that's like turning the universe inside out.
--
Awesome. More handouts, food stamps, welfare and entitlements to come. I'm so proud.



Xioden
Premium
join:2008-06-10
Monticello, NY
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to Kerodo

said by Kerodo:

Exactly... Using something that makes sense in the first place is progress... Dealing with and getting used to something is often a step backwards.....

Exactly.

Going from XP to Vista; Searchable start menu? Genius plain and simple. It's a simple change on the surface but is a massive usability improvement.

Vista to 7: Jumplists, open specific recently used documents, and extra functions attached to a programs shortcut. Again, massive usability increase.

For Windows 8: Metro UI that replaces the start menu but is completely isolated from the desktop interface... meh.

Now had they made the Metro/Modern UI act as a sort of interactive wallpaper and was integrated into the desktop (while retaining the function, they might have had something that provided a nice usability increase.

zod5000

join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to howardfine

I don't really buy the argument that people should get used to change. Not all change is good. How do you get an unbiased opinion on whether or not the new interface is better or worse than the old one. Some people seem unwilling to learn, others argue that because its new its automatically better.

I honestly don't think its better. I learned it and tried it out, but it seems to take more clicks and effort to do things than I did on win7. I didn't like dealing with two interfaces.

I think the part that baffles me is why Microsoft didn't leave the option in (from RC's) to disable Metro. They could of appeased both crowds. The people who like Metro better and the people that like classic desktop better. Instead they polarized the users, and win 8 won't be a winner if half the population can't stand it.

I predict another classic desktop type OS in the future. Win8 seems to have even more negative press than Vista had.



Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
reply to Mele20

said by Mele20:

I have never used multiple windows in 14 years. I HATE that...too distracting so I guess I like that Win 8 doesn't have them. I have no idea how you would even go about having multiple windows open at the same time. I use a 19" LCD at 5:4 ratio. It is perfect but how would I do multiple windows on it? That is for movie watching monitors ...

We're all different, and that's OK. With pre-Win8 OSs, you can use just a single window, if that's all you want. But with Win8, you've got the single-window limit issue. I use at least 3 simultaneous windows on-screen at least several times every single day (Excel, Word, and a browser - sometimes other apps combinations) to accomplish meaningful spreadsheet and document creation that requires manipulation and real-time cross-referral of information in all windows continually. This is why I question whether some of Win8's "refinements" make sense on a computer (a device intended to compute), rather than on an Internet or social-media appliance. And I suspect that many businesses over time will conclude the same thing... in which case, it will be interesting to see the impact on Microsoft's long-time business model.
--
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville


Tomek
Premium
join:2002-01-30
Valley Stream, NY
reply to howardfine

Excellent read.
I think it is a big step forward for APPLE.
Consistent experience. Plus if you think about it. MacOS resembles closer older windows GUI than this new Metro crap.

I often have multiple windows open. At work I have dual monitor setup with more windows open than taskbar can show.

Remember when win7 brought those new features to taskbar? You could always change that.
Start Menu in XP? you could revert back. M$ gave people change to migrate on their own and learn the new features and adapted to user feedback.

At this point I am looking only for new systems that have win7 in it.
My fellow IT friends are still thinking how can this possibly work in corporate.
--
Semper Fi



urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to howardfine

On Time Tech - "Windows 8: The Sevent Roads Not Taken" - »techland.time.com/2012/11/19/win···t-taken/

Also written by Paul Thurrott on Friday - "Windows 8 Sales Well Below Projections, Plenty of Blame to Go Around" - »winsupersite.com/windows-8/windo···o-around



Cho Baka
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to howardfine

Awful.

Worse than Edsel or Aztek.
--
The talented hawk speaks French.


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4
reply to HappyFrappy

Did he get Win 8 Pro? If so, advise him to exercise his Microsoft downgrade rights to Win 7 Pro. Dell must honor that.


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4

1 recommendation

reply to Blackbird

said by Blackbird:

I use at least 3 simultaneous windows on-screen at least several times every single day (Excel, Word, and a browser - sometimes other apps combinations) to accomplish meaningful spreadsheet and document creation that requires manipulation and real-time cross-referral of information in all windows continually. This is why I question whether some of Win8's "refinements" make sense on a computer (a device intended to compute), rather than on an Internet or social-media appliance. And I suspect that many businesses over time will conclude the same thing... in which case, it will be interesting to see the impact on Microsoft's long-time business model.

Ok. I can understand why you need multiple windows open at the same time. So, I can see why this one window only Win 8 would be a set back.

I think business/enterprise will not adopt Win 8. I also find it hard to believe that the desktop computer is basically dead. I can't see business/enterprise users moving to laptop/tablet only or even desktops with touch screen. Most workers are not interested in incurring the physical problems that will happen if they get touch screens with desktops. I think the desktop is dying for home use and only gamers and power users want it and, unfortunately, we are a small percentage of computer users. Dell was, a few days ago, still selling only Win 7 on their Small/Medium business site (that may have changed now). But I want more than a business computer...I want that but also multimedia and that pushes me to, ironically, buying as a registered Dell Small/Medium business customer pushed into Employer/employee MMP program which has nice perks but forces buying from the Consumer side which is all Win 8 (a big mistake on dell's part I think). Why the black and white division between a computer for business and one for home? Why not one computer for both? That worked up to Win 8.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


hortnut
Huh?

join:2005-09-25
PNW
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to howardfine

Glad you posted the article on the study, think I read it in another source yesterday.

I bought 2 - W7 Pro machines, last August and will take advantage of the $14.99 - W8 offer for machines bought from 6/2 to Jan 31, 2013. »www.windowsupgradeoffer.com/en-US Have nothing to install 8 on at this time, but $30.00 is a small amount to pay to just have a couple of copies. FAQ's says I can order a DVD for a few bucks more. »windowsupgradeoffer.com/en-KN/Home/Faq

I did have the opportunity to play on some W8 Laptops at Costco and other stores last week. Personally was not impressed. Ended up getting stuck and ended up using Keyboard Shortcuts to get to where I wanted to be.

Saw no speed or other advantages over my current W7 Dell that I had bought at Costco [was using testing on almost same Model].

My $.02



Blogger
Jedi Poster
Premium
join:2012-10-18
Reviews:
·Champion Broadba..

1 recommendation

reply to howardfine

To the topic and not to any poster:

This topic reminds me of an old saying:

If one person calls you a jackass, ignore them. If a second person calls you a jackass, ignore them too. If a third person calls you a jackass, buy a saddle.

Sounds to me like it's time for Windows 8 to saddle up.


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4
reply to hortnut

You realize the DVD is just upgrade media? It is not Windows 8 OS installation media. It is just upgrade media.

I was just told by a Dell Sm/Med business warranty employee that it is not possible to get a Reinstallation disk to clean install Win 8 on a Win 8 new machine because it is not possible to do a clean install from DVD media due to Microsoft changes with Windows 8. There is a way (I can't imagine what) to clean install Win 8 on a new Win 8 machine but not from DVD media. I have to call another department in Dell that keeps CST business hours to find out how to do it. So, I have to call tomorrow. This explains why the person who writes the excellent Wikis in the Dell Microsoft forum for step by step immediate clean install of the OS on a new Dell machine cannot write one for Windows 8 because you can't do it from DVD media. Dell cannot supply a Reinstallation DVD disk for Windows 8 at all due to Microsoft changes and restrictions.

I'll find out more tomorrow, but it just sounds like to me another reason to avoid Win 8. Dell will supply, free of charge and free shipping, Reinstallation Media for Win 7, XP, etc but cannot for Win 8.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson