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OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2
reply to Link Logger

Re: Win8 - Disappointing usability

said by Link Logger:

Typically I accept or at least haven't felt a need to change my default power settings, and again how often do users change this, so why make it a front line usability feature (ie at the cost of what)?

Power settings should be accessed easily via right click on desktop and choosing Properties, where you should be able to change wait time to turn off screen and other settings, related to power management. I'm not proposing something new here. It was done this simple way in XP...

I don't accept default settings as you do, and I need to change those settings accordingly to my current usage of computer. For example, usually I need to turn screen off after a short period of time (5 min). But when I read or edit long texts (and/or I have to keep it on the screen, while doing other tasks on my desk), I prefer to set that timeout to a longer time span. So, I found that ability to change the timeout quite handy... As some may say - we all different and we use computers differently. What is good for you (default settings) is not so good for me...

I guess you'd agree, that it was logical to get to screen saver settings by getting to Properties dialog box right from the screen. Requiring a search engine to get to those settings is completely illogical and diminishes usability of Windows OS.

One more example - shutting down computer. From my experience working with many computers I know that sometimes I have to be able to safely turn off computer without even looking at its screen. With XP it was easy to do: Win + Up + Enter (+ R) + Enter. That's it. I hope that the newest version of Windows OS offer the same ability. Otherwise its usability is diminishing again...

What is the purpose or removing and / or hiding useful features from desktop OS, that we are experiencing in the latest versions of Windows OS since WXP?
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to Link Logger

Power Chute only handles hibernation and that is good because XP hibernation is poor. Power Chute can gracefully put the computer into hibernation when a power outage occurs and your APC UPS is nearing the end of its battery power. I only allow hibernation if the power goes off and there needs to be a managed shut down or hibernation performed because I am away from the system at that time).

There is a new version of Power Chute software that I don't think works on XP but does on Vista/Win 7 and Win 8. I like Power Chute software so much that I will likely purchase a new APC UPS so I can use the software (but not if I have to purchase a pure sine wave UPS as APC's units are very expensive...other brands are better priced).
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
reply to OZO

Some of the tricks available in previous versions of Windows still apply. Press Ctrl+Alt+Del, for instance, click the power button in the bottom right-hand corner and you'll be presented with the same 'Shut Down' and 'Restart' options.

And if you're on the desktop, press Alt+F4 and you'll be able to choose 'Shut Down', 'Restart', 'Sign Out' or 'Switch User' options. And of course you can create your own keyboard short cuts if you wish.

As far as the power options from the screen, debatable as I don't consider the screen saver to be a 'power' option, but even in Windows 7 there is a link to Change Power Settings from the screen saver settings as is there for Windows 8 in the desktop mode so your still covered.

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool


dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to Link Logger

said by Link Logger:

Sounds like the problem is with Power Chute's developers as I don't use it, nor likely do the majority of windows users, hence Power Chute's problem to make their software work and maintain it.

Oh, god no - it's horrible. I buy the APC UPSes but never install their crapware; the bundled Windows support is much better.

Glen T

join:2003-11-03
BC

1 recommendation

reply to Link Logger

I watched that presentation from the head of the MS Win8 design team and was struck by the irony of it all. Doing more with less is the MS theme. He spends the first half his presentation talking about revolutionary vs. evoluationary change in other technological fields, while ignoring the fact that Win8 on Surface is actually an evolutionary change itself, because the Apple iPad already got there first.

According to that presentation, what MS envisions is that we will all be carrying around tablet PCs, with maybe a docking station, keyboard and larger monitor for work purposes. Our work computers will be our personal computers too, with all of our music and movies and photos. This alone sounds like a corporate IT nightmare.

So, assuming the above to be true, the company I work for is an ISV and we produce chemical engineering software with a CAD front end. So MS's vision of our future is that we will rewrite 1M+ lines of code into an HTML5 app (which he actually describes as "anyone who can make a website can make an application") that will run on a 10" single window screen, with no pointing device other than our fingers, and presumably bought from the MS App Store so that MS can take a share of our profits. Seriously??

When we started working on our software in the mid-80's the typical monitor was EGA resolution. We spent $4000 on a VGA monitor and video card to get the extra resolution - that's 640 x 480 for you youngsters. Over the years we gradually saw video capabilities expand and prices drop, until it became possible, for very little money, to have two 1920 x 1200 resolution monitors hooked up to an average PC. The Holy Grail!

And now, through a convergence of entertainment industry influence, we are seeing these achievements slip away. Monitors are now being compressed into HD formats. Video output of PCs is also going this way with many PCs only offering HDMI output. And now, add Windows 8 and their "revolutionary, do more with less" philosophy.

On the day when I can buy an integrated desktop display that looks like the one above for less than $1000, then this whole concept might start to make sense. But not today.

This is design to the lowest common denominator, sacrificing usability and utility en route. The entertainment industry is the tail wagging the dog. In an era of high customization of everthing, it is simply absurd to produce a one-size-fits-all solution.

But maybe MS will get their revolutionary change, but not quite as they envision it. It's time for a bunch of MS people to quit and start their own company, which will be aimed squarely at servicing the abandoned corporate sector. The vacuum must be filled.

Viva la revolution!!


RazzyW8

@rr.com
reply to howardfine

said by howardfine:

What I was talking about was the very first month Windows 7 was out, not current prices, compared to the very first month of Win 8 at current prices. The price for Windows 7 back then was $120 durings its first month.

Like he said, there were $50 upgrade promotion at the time. Also Microsoft was giving away Windows 7 licenses for FREE to PC buyers while they were selling it for $15 for Windows 8 promotional upgrade.
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BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3
reply to Glen T

Re: Win8 - Disappointing usability

So Microsoft wants toss business clients under the bus, and tell them to adapt to consumer devices... Apparently they should be doing all their work over vpn, and remote desktop to make sure to keep information off these insecure devices. Nothing like trade secrets, and private information getting lost for some laptop thief to find.
--
I distrust those people who know so well what god wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires- Susan B. Anthony
Yesterday we obeyed kings, and bent out necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to the truth- Kahlil G.


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to dave

said by dave:

said by Link Logger:

Sounds like the problem is with Power Chute's developers as I don't use it, nor likely do the majority of windows users, hence Power Chute's problem to make their software work and maintain it.

Oh, god no - it's horrible. I buy the APC UPSes but never install their crapware; the bundled Windows support is much better.

It works beautifully on XP Pro. How it works on Vista/Win7 I don't know. Windows support is HORRIBLE on XP. Please don't try to defend it on XP.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8

Nah, Powerchute has been horrible forever. Ugly UI, not well-integrated, calls too much attention to itself.


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

Click for full size
It's a very NICE GUI! Why do you think it is ugly? (Pay no attention to what it says the battery run time is...the current battery is 5 years old ...the unit is about 10 years old and recalibrating doesn't really do it anymore. It used to correctly state the run time. The current incorrectness is not because of the software. The unit is just very old. But I am not replacing it until I know what I will require with a new computer. Stepped sine wave is affordable and has the type physical unit that I need for the space I have available. If I have to go to a huge, expensive pure sine wave I will be very unhappy and need to look at other brands).

As for it not being well-integrated, it has been a life saver. When I don't use it, my computer will NOT go into a WINDOWS managed hibernation state when the power goes off and I am asleep or away from my home.

Calling too much attention to itself? It NEVER makes itself known except by having a tray icon that is convenient for me.

I have the Personal Edition and it is an older edition but, as I said, the new edition (and I do fault APC for waiting so long to issue a new Personal Edition) I don't think will work on XP. Maybe I won't like the new edition when I install it on the new computer (assuming I keep the new computer) but that remains to be seen.

Maybe you are referring to a Professional edition?
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


kickass69

join:2002-06-03
Lake Hopatcong, NJ

I've tried the newest version of PowerChute Personal Edition...which is V3.0.2 for Windows 8, 7, Vista, XP and Home Server. Keep in mind the newest version needs .NET framework 2.0 SP2 which is unfortunate. I don't like how there's an energy cost section and service added to this new version. There's no way to turn it off without a message saying 'hey, it's not working' essentially. I would read the install/release notes for known issues with this version as well.

I went back to version 2.2, which is similiar to your screenshot with 'Run Self Test' option below Current Status.



markofmayhem
Why not now?
Premium
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:5

1 recommendation

reply to Mele20

said by Mele20:

I got it turned off in bios (secure boot). This put it to legacy boot for the next boot. I rebooted and, after the Dell logo, on a black screen I got the message "NTLDR is missing. Press Ctr + Alt+ Del to restart". I do that and get the error message again.

I was informed by regulars and dell employees at Dell forums that I have to reinstall windows 8 in legacy mode which I can't do without the disk. In other words, apparently, you cannot just switch in the BIOS from secure boot to legacy boot whichever you want whenever. That was what I thought I would be able to do.

I have only asked in Dell forums but I am not the only one asking about this and Dell forum helpers, Dell employees who post there give vague answers. So, maybe there is a way to turn off secure boot in bios and then boot Win 8 in legacy mode but I can't see what I missed. The new bios has almost zero instructions on navigating it....not the same as in legacy bios..

I tried to set it back to secure boot but it didn't "take" even though I clicked save changes before exiting. So, I got the error again, rebooted entered bios again and sure enough it is stuck on "Load Legacy OPROM". I can't change that to "secure boot" because the prompt window does not appear where I would switch from enabled to disabled. I also cannot change "Secure Boot State" from disabled to enabled because the arrow keys skip over that ..why I don't know.

Finally, I went to Exit tab and chose "load optimized defaults" thinking that would reset all changes back to default ones. When I tried to execute that command a message popped up saying "Load optimized defaults will also reset Secure boot keys. Do you wish to continue'? I wasn't sure but I thought that meant if I had installed a Linux key (Microsoft has not issued any to Linux yet but they have asked for them) or some other special secure boot key that those would be wiped out if I went through with "load optimized defaults" but I don't have any special secure boot keys so I said yes to continue loading optimized defaults.

I am still stuck in Load Legacy OPROM boot mode. Maybe a full shutdown and then cold boot will get things unstuck and back to secure boot?

You are confusing Secure Boot and UEFI. You do not want to switch to "legacy boot", just change "Secure Boot" from "Auto" to "No". NTLDR is what a BIOS/MBR boot requires, you don't have one. You are UEFI/GPT which launches a file that ends with .efi, not .sys, in a different partition than were NTLDR would be. Reset your "boot mode" to UEFI instead of legacy and your boot order to the UEFI Windows bootloader. Secure Boot is another toggle, not the one you mucked with, and Windows 8 will boot with or without it on.. Win 8 the software doesn't care, only the Win 8 STICKER cares.
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Show off that hardware: join Team Discovery and Team Helix

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

Can't do that. It is "secure boot enabled" or "secure boot disabled" which enables Legacy boot. I didn't enable Legacy boot. I turned off Secure Boot and that action enabled Legacy Boot. Secure boot state is also disabled.

I have changed it back to UEFI but it makes no difference. It remains on Legacy Boot which I did not enable. All I did was disable "secure boot" under Secure Boot Status.

I was told in Dell forums that if I want to dual boot Linux or XP Pro with Win 8 that I have to turn off UEFI and which sets it to Legacy boot and reinstall Windows 8 in Legacy mode. Is that incorrect information? These were Dell employees and long time Dell forum posters who said this. They may be wrong...there is tremendous confusion among long time Dell users and Dell employees in the forum regarding dual boot in Windows 8 and even regarding Reinstallation of Windows 8 because of Microosoft's restrictions on Dell, for the first time, in Windows 8 regarding the COA key.

If I had a Windows 8 Reinstallation disk (not the USB key I was just sent) and installed in legacy mode how would I authenticate? There is no COA sticker on the computer. Dell was forced to put an individualized key in the BIOS instead of using their generic key but that is for Win 8 in UEFI mode. What happens if you reinstall in Legacy mode?
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



TD Nickell
Premium
join:2010-07-27
Federal Way, WA

1 edit
reply to howardfine

wrong thread.



markofmayhem
Why not now?
Premium
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:5
reply to Mele20

said by Mele20:

Can't do that. It is "secure boot enabled" or "secure boot disabled" which enables Legacy boot.

Dell XPS 8500 Windows 8 preinstalled:
»img90.imageshack.us/img90/7497/2···0051.jpg

Secure boot off, UEFI on, UEFI:Windows Boot Manager primary boot.

As for COA/Key discussion... 'Legacy mode' has nothing to do with licensing, at all, it is an emulation by UEFI to mimic BIOS/MBR behavior for compatibility.
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Show off that hardware: join Team Discovery and Team Helix

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8

Clearly you have a future career opportunity in Dell's Technical Support team!



markofmayhem
Why not now?
Premium
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:5

said by dave:

Clearly you have a future career opportunity in Dell's Technical Support team!

I'll do everything I can not to return to "support" ever again, as long as I live... I will do what it takes to not return there! I would have been better off selling my body and/or parts there-in to pay my way through college.
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Show off that hardware: join Team Discovery and Team Helix
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Kerodo

join:2004-05-08
reply to howardfine

Re: Win8 - Disappointing usability

Have you folks seen this?

»news.softpedia.com/news/Microsof···94.shtml


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to markofmayhem

Yes, I figured it out a couple of days ago. But that is not how mine came installed.



markofmayhem
Why not now?
Premium
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:5

said by Mele20:

Yes, I figured it out a couple of days ago. But that is not how mine came installed.

Of course not, you have to change it to those settings in the picture. When it came to you, Secure Boot was enabled.
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Show off that hardware: join Team Discovery and Team Helix


PeteC2
Got Mouse?
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-20
Bristol, CT
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to howardfine

Unfortunatley, my take is that MS has tried too hard to tie up one OS as an "all-devices" product (or line of products at any rate) with a universal appearance for phone - tablet- computer.

Aside of a few oddities, I don't actually have any problem using Win 8, but I find myself spending little time in the metro home screen.

I think that MS had a good concept gone bad with this. I have tablets and phones running Android ICS and Jellybean, and for these devices, it is a good OS (yes, opinions vary!), but then I find Android of very limited use on a tablet with a keyboard (such as the Transformer)...at that point, I find myself yearning for the classic Windows style GUI and interface, better suited for a non-touch screen with a mouse.
--
Deeds, not words



ccallana
Huh?
Premium,VIP
join:2000-08-03
Folsom, CA
reply to howardfine

Ok, so admittedly I didn't read the whole thread - got pretty tedious after the first couple posts...

My 4 year old can work Metro just fine. Everything he needs to do with it he can. He can swipe to get to the Charms bar to bring back up the Start screen, he can scroll the tiles over, he can select the game he wants to play, he can play many games.. No problems.

I've been using Windows 8 on a Samsung Core i5 tablet for 4 months now as my work system - it took a bit getting used to, but I have no problems finding my way around now. I use the standard desktop interface for work, as that is where most of the apps are. I have a 3 display desktop set up in my office, and things span nicely (although not in Metro mode, not sure why they didn't allow that)....

My chief complaint so far is that in Metro, unlike *every* other mobile OS, there is no Time and Battery indicators on the start screen. How idiotic is it that I have to swipe to get that information? The only other thing that truly bothers me is on a 13x7 screen, there are only 3 rows of tiles - that makes for a lot of side scrolling to get to apps.
--
"We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us.... We are far too easily pleased." C.S. Lewis

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