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OHSrob

join:2011-06-08
reply to jcremin

Re: UBNT Disconnect Issue

What signal level are you picking up other devices on the same tower.

If its stronger then -45 you will have signal overload when the other radios transmit if your using airmax.

Also throw airview on for a half hour or so and watch the noise floors peak.

Post the screenshot when your done of you can.

Don't run airview if you have a rocket titanium they have a firmware bug that breaks them. Ubiquiti is apparently working on it. (I thought it was a joke when I heard about it).

Also I've had great Luck with the 8mhz channel option in high noise. It dropped the noise on one site I have from -77dbm to -85dbm.

Edit: also if your on wpa-aes switch to wpa2-aes.

I did some work for one wisp he has a similar issue with rekeying, wpa2-aes fixed it. But his noise was -92 and he was on 5.2.

jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:3
reply to wirelessdog
said by wirelessdog:

RTS on or off?

Off. I played around with RTS and CTS quite awhile ago, and it seemed to cause as many goofy things as it helped. For instance, older UBNT devices wouldn't let me connect to them if RTS/CTS was enabled and I was using WPA encryption. Goofy I know, but it created enough headaches that I finally abandoned it.

wirelessdog

join:2008-07-15
Queen Anne, MD
kudos:1
reply to jcremin
I would focus on getting Airmax to work properly. You need some type of polling...

jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:3
reply to OHSrob
said by OHSrob:

What signal level are you picking up other devices on the same tower.

If its stronger then -45 you will have signal overload when the other radios transmit if your using airmax.

Also throw airview on for a half hour or so and watch the noise floors peak.

Post the screenshot when your done of you can.

Don't run airview if you have a rocket titanium they have a firmware bug that breaks them. Ubiquiti is apparently working on it. (I thought it was a joke when I heard about it).

Also I've had great Luck with the 8mhz channel option in high noise. It dropped the noise on one site I have from -77dbm to -85dbm.

Edit: also if your on wpa-aes switch to wpa2-aes.

I did some work for one wisp he has a similar issue with rekeying, wpa2-aes fixed it. But his noise was -92 and he was on 5.2.

I know I don't have very many people on this AP, but won't AirView kick them off while it is running? I know that just spending some time flipping through channels a few times causes the phone to start ringing. If I were to run Airvew for more than 30 seconds or so, I'd probably want to do it at like 4am to avoid pissing off customers.

I suppose the 8mhz channel might be another thing to try. And I am on WPA2-AES. I wanted to make sure to allow for the full modulation if possible.

If I end up waking up in the middle of the night, maybe I'll try running some scans and see how they look.


Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2
reply to jcremin
said by jcremin:

said by wirelessdog:

RTS on or off?

Off. I played around with RTS and CTS quite awhile ago, and it seemed to cause as many goofy things as it helped. For instance, older UBNT devices wouldn't let me connect to them if RTS/CTS was enabled and I was using WPA encryption. Goofy I know, but it created enough headaches that I finally abandoned it.

Really?

RTS is seen as a requirement if you ask me. And works well if you ask me.
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca

wirelessdog

join:2008-07-15
Queen Anne, MD
kudos:1
reply to jcremin
RTS is inferior to Airmax but one or the other is certainly needed.

jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:3
reply to wirelessdog
said by wirelessdog:

I would focus on getting Airmax to work properly. You need some type of polling...

How important is it with only 8 clients? Most only have packages of 768k, and 1 meg, and I think one of them has a 1.5 meg service. Low bandwidth, small number of clients. I have a single polarity 2.4 ghz AP running 11g in a 10mhz channel in a more populated town with 16 clients on it, and virtually not a dropped ping. Like I said, I tried Airmax on and off, and it didn't seem to help any.

jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:3
reply to Inssomniak
said by Inssomniak:

RTS is seen as a requirement if you ask me. And works well if you ask me.

What settings do you use? I can always try turning it on again and see what happens.

said by wirelessdog:

RTS is inferior to Airmax but one or the other is certainly needed.

I've tried various polling protocols across my network (Airmax, nstreme) and some cases it helps, but it seems like most simply make the AP more susceptible to interference.

What RTS settings do you use? My assumption would be that you want one or the other, and not both, correct?

wirelessdog

join:2008-07-15
Queen Anne, MD
kudos:1
reply to jcremin
In noisy and high-usage environments Airmax seems to work fine. Back when I was using RTS I was using 256. More recently I tried 64 some say 1 which didn't work for me. Anything I have non-canopy uses Airmax now.

jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:3
Are you only using RTS or are you setting CTS as well?

wirelessdog

join:2008-07-15
Queen Anne, MD
kudos:1
reply to jcremin
RTS on clients only. Never set on the AP


Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2
reply to wirelessdog
said by wirelessdog:

RTS is inferior to Airmax but one or the other is certainly needed.

Absolutely.

I dont see a huge need for RTS with airmax, but 802.11, cant live without it.
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca

jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:3
reply to wirelessdog
said by wirelessdog:

RTS on clients only. Never set on the AP

Sorry, I mis-spoke. I meant Fragmentation threshold. I don't believe that setting exists in the new M series stuff, but do you use it at all on the older clients, UBNT or MT?

wirelessdog

join:2008-07-15
Queen Anne, MD
kudos:1
reply to jcremin
Its been so long I don't remember. IIRC there is something screwy with ubnt and fragmentation.


Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2
Yea frag is gone on ubnt, caused headaches and packet loss on new stuff.

Its still there for legacy and I quit using it a while ago
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca

jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:3
reply to jcremin
Sounds good. I'll give the RTS settings a shot, play with airmax a bit, maybe try some different channel widths, and scan the spectrum a bit more. If all of that leads nowhere, I'll try going back to MT and see if that takes care of it. If so, either the Rocket is faulty, or something UBNT is doing just won't work for me. If the problem stays, then at least I have narrowed it down to interference and/or issues with the antenna.

OHSrob

join:2011-06-08
reply to jcremin
said by jcremin:

I know I don't have very many people on this AP, but won't AirView kick them off while it is running? I know that just spending some time flipping through channels a few times causes the phone to start ringing. If I were to run Airvew for more than 30 seconds or so, I'd probably want to do it at like 4am to avoid pissing off customers.

I suppose the 8mhz channel might be another thing to try. And I am on WPA2-AES. I wanted to make sure to allow for the full modulation if possible.

If I end up waking up in the middle of the night, maybe I'll try running some scans and see how they look.

Sorry about that I posted that from my phone I missed that you didn't have airmax in that picture. Good choice on WPA2-AES. Airview will disrupt communications. At 4AM some of the noise may go away but you will still have SSID broadcast's coming every 150ms plus broadcasts and unicast from other local 802.11 systems. And if there is a wireless video sender you will see it (10mhz wide).

Video senders are pretty obvious if you have one near you, there will be something else 10mhz wide that will not stop transmitting ever and will be solid across on the waterfall graph with a consistent color where it is.

If you see something very narrow (under 1mhz in airview) getting really loud every 30 seconds to 90 seconds and with a short transmission duration. look around the property that this AP is at for one of those outdoor wireless temperature sensors,some of the newer ones are 2.4ghz they are loud.

Another thing if it is happening around meal time, If someone has a damaged microwave oven with a improper door gap or break's in the front window mesh. You will pick it upwards of about 2km it will max out airview. Microwave ovens tend to be between channel's 4 and 9.

said by Inssomniak:

Really?

RTS is seen as a requirement if you ask me. And works well if you ask me.

CSMA RTS threshold did work very well on the CPE at the previous wisp I worked for. Many clients on about 5 of the 50 or so access points required it. All of them that had issues had customers on long link's or with grids. It worked great made an ap go from a total mess because of the hidden node effect to working almost as good as without it.

It did need quite a bit of tweaking to find the right threshold. The AP's with just nanostations and powerstations on short link's never needed it.

It would be cool if ubiquiti added something like dd-wrt's radar view mode it shows active stations on other access point's and the receive signal.

edit: MT with a good card will probably do a better job.

edit: I am sure you know this already but remember clients first when you change the channel width.

jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:3
reply to OHSrob
Click for full size
said by OHSrob:

Also throw airview on for a half hour or so and watch the noise floors peak.

Post the screenshot when your done of you can.

I wasn't able to run it for 30 minutes, but I did get a chance to run it for a couple minutes. I attached a screenshot. The graph looks a little strange to me the way it is broken up like that.... Anyone else have any opinions about how it looks?

OHSrob

join:2011-06-08
reply to jcremin
That's pretty noisy about the same we see urban.

If you want to keep the bandwidth up still, Turn on channel shifting and set it to Channel 4.5 in 8mhz width. Channel 6 and up are a write off. But this might not solve the disconnection issue completely.

Do you have any other 2.4ghz gear at this tower by chance ?

If you don't mind having about 20-22megabit's tcp between your customers 5mhz channels would work best in your case on channel 5. I can see here that your packages you offer arn't too high so you should have no issues with 5mhz of bandwidth.

jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:3
said by OHSrob:

That's pretty noisy about the same we see urban.

Yeah, and it only showed noise like that after switching to the Rocket. My RB411/XR2 combo showed noise floors in the -90's pretty much all across the spectrum. That's part of the reason I'm starting to suspect hardware. I've seen some cards that seem to "self interfere" particularly XR9's.

said by OHSrob:

If you want to keep the bandwidth up still, Turn on channel shifting and set it to Channel 4.5 in 8mhz width. Channel 6 and up are a write off. But this might not solve the disconnection issue completely.

I might give that a shot and see how it goes.

said by OHSrob:

Do you have any other 2.4ghz gear at this tower by chance ?

Nothing at all. I have two XR9 AP's, and while the antennas are next to each other, the cards are in metal boxes and are separated vertically by about 20 feet

said by OHSrob:

If you don't mind having about 20-22megabit's tcp between your customers 5mhz channels would work best in your case on channel 5. I can see here that your packages you offer arn't too high so you should have no issues with 5mhz of bandwidth.

I'd be thrilled with 20+ megs. Even right now with a 10mhz channel, I'm lucky to get much more than 10 megs. I'd like to offer packages up to 5 megs in the future, but right now it would be nice to at least be able to support 3 meg plans.

OHSrob

join:2011-06-08
reply to jcremin
Let us know how this works out. I have yet to find anything myself that preforms like the XR2.

One thing that might be causing you some grief if the fact that your dealing with dual polarity's on the rocket. If you have a spare RP-SMA 50 ohm terminator toss it on either horizontal or vertical and see if things improve.

If you have canopy near you it will probably be on horizontal.

I have a few sites running on just a single polarity because they pickup other towers I have or other providers have a bit too loud. I try to maximize the amount of equipment I can put up in the limited amount of radio spectrum.

wirelessdog

join:2008-07-15
Queen Anne, MD
kudos:1
reply to jcremin
With the exception of 900mhz Canopy is never HPOL without adding additional hardware.

I have never seen above 11megs on a 10mhz channel.

I would replace the rocket and/or try disconnecting one of the chains as suggested.

Since you are using all UBNT M clients I can't imagine why you would want to go back to a non-airmax system. The polling is invaluable.

OHSrob

join:2011-06-08
said by wirelessdog:

I have never seen above 11megs on a 10mhz channel.

Since you are using all UBNT M clients I can't imagine why you would want to go back to a non-airmax system. The polling is invaluable.

I can pull 35-40megabit's on speedtest.net off a dual polarity 2.4 ghz rocket with 65/65 rate in 10mhz.

I just noticed OP has his KM limit set to 1.8KM, Increase the AP side to 4KM and the clients each by 1KM. You can set it higher then you need but never too short. The ACK timing simply specify the amount of time to wait before considering a transmission lost.

Also try taking that out of WDS mode and put in normal access point operation and clients in client mode, You don't need WDS for ptmp.

I do agree with you not having airmax with a pure M series network is a bit of a waste but you do get a bit more throughput without it. As long as the tower isn't crowded with gear airmax is fantastic. However CSMA does tend to work fine as well most of the time,But I would never go back to CSMA.

jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:3
said by OHSrob:

I just noticed OP has his KM limit set to 1.8KM, Increase the AP side to 4KM and the clients each by 1KM. You can set it higher then you need but never too short. The ACK timing simply specify the amount of time to wait before considering a transmission lost.

It is set to dynamic Ack. My furthest client on this AP is probably about .75km from the tower. I used to statically set it on my 900mhz towers, but it never seemed to help anything. Are you saying that you statically assigning the ack on the AP and each client?

said by OHSrob:

Also try taking that out of WDS mode and put in normal access point operation and clients in client mode, You don't need WDS for ptmp.

My office actually needs WDS in order to bridge the network back to a few devices that I have running customer monitoring. Have you noticed having a UBNT AP in WDS mode affecting performance any? I do it occasionally on my Mikrotik AP's for when I have a client that also serves as a rebroadcast for a few neighbors.

said by OHSrob:

I do agree with you not having airmax with a pure M series network is a bit of a waste but you do get a bit more throughput without it. As long as the tower isn't crowded with gear airmax is fantastic. However CSMA does tend to work fine as well most of the time,But I would never go back to CSMA.

I didn't have much time to test today, but I saw zero performance or stability difference between Airmax on vs off. Might just be because there are only 8 clients and the bandwidth usage is quite low. I'm sure on a higher capacity AP there could be a much bigger difference.

OHSrob

join:2011-06-08
said by jcremin:

It is set to dynamic Ack. My furthest client on this AP is probably about .75km from the tower. I used to statically set it on my 900mhz towers, but it never seemed to help anything. Are you saying that you statically assigning the ack on the AP and each client?

Don't use auto, Some people here sware by it but its never done me any good, I abandoned trying to use it in 5.2, Never ever tried it again.

said by jcremin:

My office actually needs WDS in order to bridge the network back to a few devices that I have running customer monitoring. Have you noticed having a UBNT AP in WDS mode affecting performance any? I do it occasionally on my Mikrotik AP's for when I have a client that also serves as a rebroadcast for a few neighbors.

Ah yes if its going between offices leave it in WDS if you have any of the stations bridged.

said by jcremin:

I didn't have much time to test today, but I saw zero performance or stability difference between Airmax on vs off. Might just be because there are only 8 clients and the bandwidth usage is quite low. I'm sure on a higher capacity AP there could be a much bigger difference.

To be honest Airmax mostly just solves CSMA related issue and if you have a bunch of towers in the same configuration (20,10mhz,8mhz,5mhz) you will have a more consistent latency on the connection with Airmax then with it off.

Anytime most 802.11 equipment receives a frame it can de-modulate it will back off transmitting until the band is free. This causes jitter.

If you have line of sight you might want to consider migrating to 5ghz, I can push 80megabits half duplex all day long to my clients on a rocket M5 in a 20mhz channel with firmware 5.3sdk. I seem to have lost about 20 megabit's with 5.5.2 with the same signal and rates.

wirelessdog

join:2008-07-15
Queen Anne, MD
kudos:1
reply to jcremin
Rob,

Care to share some screenshots of exact settings of your AP's? 35-40megs would mean I could get away with running most of my non-saturated backhauls in 10mhz mode... Just trying to wrap my head around what I'm doing wrong...