Topic 'Re: Smoke-proofing and sound-proofing from neighbours in condo' in forum 'Home Improvement' - dslreports.com

Re: Smoke-proofing and sound-proofing from neighbours in condo

Thu, 22 Nov 2012 22:03:56 EDT

Jack_in_VA posted : It has a sprinkler. Rest easy

Re: Smoke-proofing and sound-proofing from neighbours in condo

Thu, 22 Nov 2012 17:48:45 EDT

Kearnstd posted :

said by Bob:

The real scary part is the lack of a firewall.

Made double because they are smokers. Its only time before a smoker starts a fire by dropping a cigarette on something or lighting up in bed.
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Re: Smoke-proofing and sound-proofing from neighbours in condo

Wed, 21 Nov 2012 11:38:00 EDT

pfak posted :

said by wa2ibm:

Whenever I install new outlets or network connection plates in walls, I always ensure that I never create openings in both sides of a wall within the same stud space. I believe this to be a fire code requirement to prevent fires from passing from one room into another. You might want to check on this issue with your local fire inspectors.

These were put in when the building was built, and it's identical in every other 1 bedroom unit on my floor. I'm friends with everyone else on the floor.

BTW guys, the solution that I did worked perfectly. No need to have fans running, or air purifiers or anything of that nature.
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The more I C, the less I see.

Re: Smoke-proofing and sound-proofing from neighbours in condo

Wed, 21 Nov 2012 03:16:01 EDT

wa2ibm posted : Whenever I install new outlets or network connection plates in walls, I always ensure that I never create openings in both sides of a wall within the same stud space. I believe this to be a fire code requirement to prevent fires from passing from one room into another. You might want to check on this issue with your local fire inspectors.
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- Bill

Re: Smoke-proofing and sound-proofing from neighbours in condo

Tue, 20 Nov 2012 18:25:29 EDT

Jack_in_VA posted :

said by TheTechGuru:

said by Jack_in_VA:

Just install a fresh air heat exchanger

quote:
Air exchangers contain a heat exchanger core that uses the heating/cooling energy contained in the outgoing stale air to temper the incoming fresh air.

Fresh Air Ventilation for a Healthy Home

OP would defiantly need to go with the "Supply Only" type.

That's the option the OP would need bring in air and let it force it's way into the other unit.

quote:
Supply Only
Supply ventilation systems involve the use of a fan to bring outside air into the home while air leaks out of the home through holes in the shell, fan ducts and intentional vents (if any exist). A typical supply ventilation system introduces fresh air into usually one or more rooms within the home that residents occupy most often (e.g., bedrooms, living room).

Re: Smoke-proofing and sound-proofing from neighbours in condo

Tue, 20 Nov 2012 18:23:49 EDT

Jack_in_VA posted :

said by Bob:

That won't prevent the neighbor's smoke from entering his unit.

Really read the options

Re: Smoke-proofing and sound-proofing from neighbours in condo

Tue, 20 Nov 2012 18:11:39 EDT

Bob posted : That won't prevent the neighbor's smoke from entering his unit.

Re: Smoke-proofing and sound-proofing from neighbours in condo

Tue, 20 Nov 2012 18:08:12 EDT

TheTechGuru posted :

said by Jack_in_VA:

Just install a fresh air heat exchanger

quote:
Air exchangers contain a heat exchanger core that uses the heating/cooling energy contained in the outgoing stale air to temper the incoming fresh air.

Fresh Air Ventilation for a Healthy Home

OP would defiantly need to go with the "Supply Only" type.
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CompTIA Network+ Certified

Re: Smoke-proofing and sound-proofing from neighbours in condo

Tue, 20 Nov 2012 18:06:30 EDT

Jack_in_VA posted : Just install a fresh air heat exchanger

quote:
Air exchangers contain a heat exchanger core that uses the heating/cooling energy contained in the outgoing stale air to temper the incoming fresh air.

Fresh Air Ventilation for a Healthy Home

Re: Smoke-proofing and sound-proofing from neighbours in condo

Tue, 20 Nov 2012 17:47:09 EDT

TheTechGuru posted : I have a solution, might not be the best in the winter though.

It's simple, PRESSURIZE YOUR HOME using a window fan unit to bring in fresh air. You'll need to use a window that is not somewhere where bad smells might be brought in.

»www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R···Id=10051

»www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R···Id=10051

A lot of businesses use this technique but the function is built into their commercial A/C system. Ever wonder why many businesses when you open the door it's a BLAST of air or why the doors howl while closed? This is why. But a fan system like I posted should not create the kind of pressure a business a/c does but should defiantly help.

If you have a lot of disposable income, I would suggest looking into having a A/C professional come out and add the outside air intake feature to your central air conditioning and tell him you want to pressurize the place as much as possible within reason to keep out neighbors smoke.

As for the sound problems, I would nail up some 1/2 inch or thicker RMAX foam on all the walls to neighbors then put some 1/2 inch or thicker drywall on top of that. When you're extending your outlets out doing this I would spray some TuffStuff expanding foam behind them.

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CompTIA Network+ Certified

Re: Smoke-proofing and sound-proofing from neighbours in condo

Tue, 20 Nov 2012 08:13:57 EDT

Jack_in_VA posted :

said by pfak:

I ended up using:

»www.homedepot.ca/product/duct-se···s/963529

Around the electrical outlets, and the RJ11 outlet -- additionally to fill the gap. I also caulked between the floor and the drywall. I don't think I've missed anything for now, so we'll see how it goes!

Thanks for everyones assistance :)

Glad you were able to resolve the issue without going off the "Deep end" of getting parliament to pass a bunch of laws to address it.

Re: Smoke-proofing and sound-proofing from neighbours in condo

Mon, 19 Nov 2012 22:46:53 EDT

pfak posted : I ended up using:

»www.homedepot.ca/product/duct-se···s/963529

Around the electrical outlets, and the RJ11 outlet -- additionally to fill the gap. I also caulked between the floor and the drywall. I don't think I've missed anything for now, so we'll see how it goes!

Thanks for everyones assistance :)
--
The more I C, the less I see.

Re: Smoke-proofing and sound-proofing from neighbours in condo

Mon, 19 Nov 2012 21:25:34 EDT

MaynardKrebs posted :

said by pfak:

Hi!

I live in a condo building with neighbours that both smoke, and are loud. I've been having my bedroom full of smoke even with the window closed.

When you say "full of smoke", exactly what do you mean?
Smell or actual visible smoke?

Smells might be covered under an existing condo bylaw.
Visible smoke may be covered under provincial law related to 2nd-hand smoke exposure or other such things.

If it's visible smoke and it gets to be too much, someone I once heard about actually pulled the fire alarm. Don't know whether they got in trouble for that, but it certainly woke people up (literally & figuratively) about the smoking issue in their building.

In addition to my other posts, you may want to consult with a lawyer specializing in BC condo law & human rights law.

How about getting a condo bylaw passed which says that anyone who smokes in their unit MUST have a window fan operating while smoking, and for 15 minutes post-smoking, in order to depressurize their unit? Might not totally eliminate the smell but it probably will help.

Also, the more you can to to make the common wall air-tight, the better off you will be. Get some caulk and seal around the bottom of the drywall/floor.

As to noise, a 2nd layer of 5/8" drywall glued to the existing drywall using **acoustic sealant** »www.homedepot.ca/product/pl-acou···l/972916 will make a world of difference.

See these for some Ontario thoughts:
»www.ontariocondolaw.com/2009/12/···defence/
»www.condoinformation.ca/book/export/html/86
»www.foglerrubinoff.com/pdfs/cond···2009.pdf
»www.lmlaw.ca/REMEDIES-FROM-FINES···NERS.pdf

Re: Smoke-proofing and sound-proofing from neighbours in condo

Mon, 19 Nov 2012 21:18:15 EDT

pfak posted :

said by MaynardKrebs:

When was the building constructed or majorly renovated? That will tell your which version of the fire code is applicable.

It was built in 2005.

said by MaynardKrebs:

Is the smell coming through the wall or is it the heater? If it's the heater, call an electrician - there may be some arcing going on.

It's coming through the wall, it's from when the neighbours are smoking in their unit. Air path goes directly between the two adjoining units, and there's a strong air pressure to blow the smoke due to the design of the building. I was looking at the design plans earlier. After plugging the hole, I can't smell any smoke from their unit anymore.

Sorry for the poor terminology, I do mean an electric baseboard heater!
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The more I C, the less I see.

Re: Smoke-proofing and sound-proofing from neighbours in condo

Mon, 19 Nov 2012 20:54:43 EDT

MaynardKrebs posted :

said by pfak:

I found the *actual* source of the smell, I've finished caulking and sealing the electric and RJ11 jacks and then I discovered this beauty (and I can smell the smoke very strongly here):

Heat register :D

That doesn't look like a heat 'register'.
It looks like an electric baseboard heater (do you have electric heat??).

Is the smell coming through the wall or is it the heater? If it's the heater, call an electrician - there may be some arcing going on.

Re: Smoke-proofing and sound-proofing from neighbours in condo

Mon, 19 Nov 2012 20:50:50 EDT

MaynardKrebs posted : When was the building constructed or majorly renovated? That will tell your which version of the fire code is applicable.

The lack of insulation in the wall would indicate to me that you don't have an STC rating (sound transmission) which meets code either.

You have different legal options open to you if you bought the condo 'new' from a developer and the construction does not meet code, or if you bought it as a 'resale' and the building is still within the warranty period. You may want to consult with the city building inspections department and a lawyer experienced in construction law.

You may also write a letter to the condo/strata board about this issue, though I think this »www.vancouversun.com/health/Smok···ory.html may be a better option to sneak into the building by-laws if the construction is that crappy and it's too expensive to remedy the construction (ie. if you owners have to foot the bill).

Re: Smoke-proofing and sound-proofing from neighbours in condo

Mon, 19 Nov 2012 20:48:59 EDT

pfak posted : (Selling isn't really an option, nothing is built better here -- and certainly not for what I paid in Downtown Vancouver on a quiet street.)

I found the *actual* source of the smell, I've finished caulking and sealing the electric and RJ11 jacks and then I discovered this beauty (and I can smell the smoke very strongly here):

Heat register :D
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The more I C, the less I see.

Re: Smoke-proofing and sound-proofing from neighbours in condo

Mon, 19 Nov 2012 20:42:49 EDT

Thane_Bitter posted : Sell! :o Really they built a ton of shit in that city; unfortunately it seems your unit happens to be one.

Go to a home improvement store and get some light switch draft gaskets (a thin foam gasket the same size as a typical cover plate) it should seal out much of the smoke. You could also pick up a small back of fibreglass insulation and stuff it into the opening, it might reduce some of the sound, though the entire wall should have been done (and built as a fire wall).

EDIT the wall might last 30 min, but the plastic cover plates sure as hell are not durring a fire.

Re: Smoke-proofing and sound-proofing from neighbours in condo

Mon, 19 Nov 2012 17:18:07 EDT

Jack_in_VA posted :

said by averagedude:

I came across a Holmes on Homes episode that had a similar situation
»www.hgtv.com/hgtv-holmes-on-home···dex.html
The episode was called Building A Wall Of Silence.
Hopefully there may be a couple of pieces of information that might be helpful.

Edit
On the list of shows, scroll to the right to find the episode.

Also, you might want to address why your place is under negative pressure and is "pulling" the smoke in. If your place was under slight positive air pressure, then the smoke would not come in (as easily).

Add a little more than "slight" positive pressure and no smoke will come in.

Re: Smoke-proofing and sound-proofing from neighbours in condo

Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:08:16 EDT

averagedude posted : I came across a Holmes on Homes episode that had a similar situation
»www.hgtv.com/hgtv-holmes-on-home···dex.html
The episode was called Building A Wall Of Silence.
Hopefully there may be a couple of pieces of information that might be helpful.

Edit
On the list of shows, scroll to the right to find the episode.

Also, you might want to address why your place is under negative pressure and is "pulling" the smoke in. If your place was under slight positive air pressure, then the smoke would not come in (as easily).

Re: Smoke-proofing and sound-proofing from neighbours in condo

Mon, 19 Nov 2012 11:37:24 EDT

pfak posted :

said by pende_tim:

Just WOW! Does that even meet fire code? I thought that a rated fire wall was required between units? Also thought Canada had a code for sound attenuation between units?

While the Low Voltage box may be letting smoke through, it is also very possible that other electrical boxes are leaking.

There's an RJ11 jack and 2 power outlets on the wall. The 2 power outlets have metal boxes, but I can also detect leakage from the bottom by the molding. So I assume you're totally correct!

As for it being up to code, as far as I can tell it is -- since we have sprinklers, the drywall just needs to be rated for 30 minutes of fire.
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The more I C, the less I see.

Re: Smoke-proofing and sound-proofing from neighbours in condo

Mon, 19 Nov 2012 10:00:46 EDT

fifty nine posted : And given that there are apparently heavy smokers living next door, I would be planning an exit ASAP.

Re: Smoke-proofing and sound-proofing from neighbours in condo

Mon, 19 Nov 2012 07:22:18 EDT

Bob posted : The real scary part is the lack of a firewall.

Re: Smoke-proofing and sound-proofing from neighbours in condo

Mon, 19 Nov 2012 07:00:29 EDT

pende_tim posted : Just WOW! Does that even meet fire code? I thought that a rated fire wall was required between units? Also thought Canada had a code for sound attenuation between units?

While the Low Voltage box may be letting smoke through, it is also very possible that other electrical boxes are leaking.

Another very common place for air leaks is the under the bottom 2x4 that supports the framing in the wall. This is laid and nailed down on plywood and is seldom sealed to the floor. Air can pass under this 2x4 very easily since it is a long run. It is one of the first places a home inspector looks when they do an energy audit with a blower door test. This can be sealed with a calk gun if you can get to the area. It may require lifting the carpet to get to the gap between the sheetrock and the flooring.

However if you want to really soundproof, you will need to remove the sheet rock, add studs on your side that are setback an inch or so from the neighbors wall to break the mechanical connection between you, calk the heck out of every place where sheetrock touches studs, add good soundproofing material, and then finish the wall on your side.

Not a really big job, but it will be messy.

Tim
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The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.

Re: Smoke-proofing and sound-proofing from neighbours in condo

Mon, 19 Nov 2012 06:25:45 EDT

alkizmo posted : That's scary. Since there's no box, there's no need to remove the insulation. Since there's no need to remove the insulation, but there is no insulation, it means that there probably is absolutely no insulation/sound proofing in that wall!

Anyway, the best you can do is seal the wall plate with something like this.

»www.homedepot.ca/product/rectang···2/906909

And if you're considering putting up another layer of drywall, then why not remove the current layer of drywall to be able to put sound proofing material in the cavity? The effort would be almost the same, but with better results.

Try to talk to your neighbor, see if they like the idea of sound proofing (And split the cost).

Smoke-proofing and sound-proofing from neighbours in condo

Mon, 19 Nov 2012 02:36:38 EDT

pfak posted : Hi!

I live in a condo building with neighbours that both smoke, and are loud. I've been having my bedroom full of smoke even with the window closed.

I've recently discovered between our units that there is only a single sheet of drywall between the units and that I can actually see their RJ11 jacks (and power jacks w/ light) on the other side (!!) which is what is causing the smoke to be let through to my bedroom -- as there is a super strong draft.

[att=1]

I'm thinking the plan of attack I need to do the following:

1. Insulate the jacks, using some kind of mesh or foam (I don't think foam will work, as you can see above that is their unit directly on the other side and there's no metal box) -- Recommendations?
2. Double-layer the drywall with a sound proof layer -- Can anyone recommend material I should use for this?

Thanks a bunch!
--
The more I C, the less I see.