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Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
reply to Blackbird

Re: Anonymous is hacking Israeli Web sites

said by Blackbird:

Hmm. I wonder if the Anonymous semi-pro players grasp the dimensions of the "full and unbridled wrath of Mossad"? That
isn't some 3rd-world Hosni Mubarak-class outfit... they play hardball, for keeps.

The Mossad are a bunch of over-rated posers running around like everyone else pretending to be Canadians.

I would guess that a number of Anonymous members are Americans, so are you saying that the Mossad are going to carry out operations in the US against American citizens?

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool


sivran
Seamonkey's back
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1
Strangest thing, he spilled his tea and slipped and just happened to hit his head hard enough to kill himself...
--
Think Outside the Fox.


Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
reply to Link Logger
said by Link Logger:

...The Mossad are a bunch of over-rated posers running around like everyone else pretending to be Canadians.

I would guess that a number of Anonymous members are Americans, so are you saying that the Mossad are going to carry out operations in the US against American citizens?

It's hard to say what they might do, or where. The short list of their hardball responses include successfully targeted persons in:
Afghanistan, Belgium, Congo Republic, Cyprus, Dubai, East Germany, Egypt, France, Germany, Greece, Iran, Italy, Jordan, Lebanon, Malta, Norway, Pakistan, Philippines, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates, Uruguay, and the West Bank.

Certainly, I doubt what the amateurs of Anonymous are doing rises to the level of that kind of response, especially against citizens in Western nations, but killing is not the only thing Mossad is noted for. They have been active in pointing out targets to local authorities for violations of local (or international) laws in many other nations than on the list above. My point is that they don't play "easy", whether you choose to believe that or not.
--
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville


Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
said by Blackbird:

It's hard to say what they might do, or where. The short list of their hardball responses include successfully targeted persons in:
Afghanistan, Belgium, Congo Republic, Cyprus, Dubai, East Germany, Egypt, France, Germany, Greece, Iran, Italy, Jordan, Lebanon, Malta, Norway, Pakistan, Philippines, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates, Uruguay, and the West Bank.

Certainly, I doubt what the amateurs of Anonymous are doing rises to the level of that kind of response, especially against citizens in Western nations, but killing is not the only thing Mossad is noted for. They have been active in pointing out targets to local authorities for violations of local (or international) laws in many other nations than on the list above. My point is that they don't play "easy", whether you choose to believe that or not.

So here is the problem, first countries don't like other countries killing their citizens, especially inside their country. Can you imagine what would happen if a Mossad hit team screwed up in the US, what do you think the fallout would be in terms of American support for Israel, then if someone was able to connect the dots back to the US government being aware of the activity, double whammy. Even if you couldn't connect the dots the fallout would be just as bad having an supposed very close ally working a plan like that in back, problematic for sure. The risk is much higher then the reward here.

Next pointing out 'violations' of laws, that has a problem in the US as the Judge is going to ask questions about how the information was collected and if you a said foreign agent told me, that would pretty much be the end of the trial right there. Not to mention that you have admitted a foreign nation collecting data about your citizens inside your country, problematic again (how do you know that bob's machine is not just a zombie, because you were able to monitor bob's house and network connection in and out etc, how did you do that?).

The collection of miscreants called Anonymous are pretty much like mosquitoes, they buzz around alot, perhaps annoy you and might even get in the occasional bite, but what do you do stop that, you put on some bug repellent. The point is you have to take the step to defend yourself. We used to spray DDT all over the place but that had some side effects that were worse then the mosquitoes, same thing here with hackers in general, sure we could put some measures in to make catching them easier, but I don't think the general internet population would go for it.

Sure a few Anonymous folks might have a visitor make some suggestions about finding a new hobby, but with a whacked out group like Anonymous that might not have the desired effect.

Of course with a group like Anonymous, a pile of them are already FBI informants, and no doubt any operation they take on creates fractions within the group as individual beliefs etc differ, so yep some prison cell are going to get new occupants, but will that stop Anonymous, nope so get out the repellent as this isn't something the Mossad can fix.

As a side note, it must be Anonymous newbie time as seriously who would delete a database if you wanted to cause chaos. If you have access to delete a database, there are far worse things you can do then delete it.

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2
said by Link Logger:

Sure a few Anonymous folks might have a visitor make some suggestions about finding a new hobby
...
Of course with a group like Anonymous, a pile of them are already FBI informants,..

May be that's true and it's under control of the mentioned agency. Then who could guarantee that those "visitors" and "suggestions" are not from the same agency too? Who knows what are the real intentions under all those actions...
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...


Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
said by OZO:

said by Link Logger:

Sure a few Anonymous folks might have a visitor make some suggestions about finding a new hobby
...
Of course with a group like Anonymous, a pile of them are already FBI informants,..

May be that's true and it's under control of the mentioned agency. Then who could guarantee that those "visitors" and "suggestions" are not from the same agency too? Who knows what are the real intentions under all those actions...

The idea you don't know which agency it is, you just get a visitor who seems to walk in at the worst possible moment, who is able to tell you in great detail what your doing and who your doing it with, and then suggests perhaps you shouldn't do it anymore because you are not as sneaky as you think you are and then he just walks out If your unable to take the good advice the next visit is from the guys who don't seem to know what door knobs are for.

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool


norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback
reply to Link Logger
said by Link Logger:

So here is the problem, first countries don't like other countries killing their citizens, especially inside their country. Can you imagine what would happen if a Mossad hit team screwed up in the US, what do you think the fallout would be in terms of American support for Israel, then if someone was able to connect the dots back to the US government being aware of the activity, double whammy. Even if you couldn't connect the dots the fallout would be just as bad having an supposed very close ally working a plan like that in back, problematic for sure. The risk is much higher then the reward here.

I understand your thoughts on this, and the problem is that not everything is zero's and one's. The country would have to know something illegitimate went on in the first place to be in a position to react. The fact remains there is enough science out there to hide all sorts of methods. Similar to there is a lot of science to detecting and back-tracing till you have the events in a clear picture.

Not that much different to black hat's v's white hat's in IT I would think, in an attempt to explain what I mean. However if someone is downed they won't be getting up to prove it one way or the other.

You have to give it to the Anon team if they had the balls....however what proof is it that says it is them and not another anon pushing an agenda of their own? Skepticism I know, but no one is here with classified docs releasing info either to tell me who it was.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



traveltings

@dtra.mil
reply to Link Logger
If and I say if the given target is ID to be specifically malicious then one has to understand that people do travel for vacations and not everyone travels within their nation and accidents do happen when people travel abroad. Hence the international health insurance. Just saying.


Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
reply to Link Logger
said by Link Logger:

... So here is the problem, first countries don't like other countries killing their citizens, especially inside their country. Can you imagine what would happen if a Mossad hit team screwed up in the US, what do you think the fallout would be in terms of American support for Israel, then if someone was able to connect the dots back to the US government being aware of the activity, double whammy. Even if you couldn't connect the dots the fallout would be just as bad having an supposed very close ally working a plan like that in back, problematic for sure. The risk is much higher then the reward here.

I'm not so sure what the effect would be on American support for Israel. It certainly didn't suffer that large a lasting 'hit' when Israel knowingly attacked the USS Liberty intel ship in the eastern Med back in the late 60's. While Israel values her relations with the US, she makes her own security determinations of who and what to hit based on her own priorities and survival perceptions... and those certainly don't always line up with American viewpoints of what is acceptable or not. As far as the risk-reward ratio, for it to influence their choices of action, that depends purely on how the Israelis see the impact, motivation, and influences governing whatever Anonymous (or certain factions within) are presently doing. A long time ago, I learned that the Mossad marches to its own drumbeat, one that doesn't always make sense to American (or Canadian) ears - in part because we don't live in the threat scenario they do. Of all the spook agencies in the developed world, they are far and away the one most persistent in taking "direct actions"... and the one I'd least want to "mess around with".
said by Link Logger:

Next pointing out 'violations' of laws, that has a problem in the US as the Judge is going to ask questions about how the information was collected and if you a said foreign agent told me, that would pretty much be the end of the trial right there. Not to mention that you have admitted a foreign nation collecting data about your citizens inside your country, problematic again (how do you know that bob's machine is not just a zombie, because you were able to monitor bob's house and network connection in and out etc, how did you do that?).

The collection of miscreants called Anonymous are pretty much like mosquitoes, they buzz around alot, perhaps annoy you and might even get in the occasional bite, but what do you do stop that, you put on some bug repellent. ...

Regarding the pointing out 'violations' of law, Mossad's pattern has never been to do that directly to a 'judge' in another nation - in past situations, they simply tell at least part of what they know and how they figured it out to a sympathetic contact in an agency of the other nation, letting them develop their own native information and evidence based on the 'tip' or 'outline'. In some cases, it's worked out that the other nation's enforcement agencies have taken the ball and run with it; in other cases, that hasn't happened. If the stakes are high enough, the latter can become a situation when they've been known to take their own "direct action".

If Mossad looks at Anonymous merely as the 'mosquitoes' you describe, then they'll respond accordingly. But if Mossad sees something that threatens Israel's vital/survival interests, they will act somehow, somewhere, in some way. If it were me in Anonymous, that's a personal risk I'd be very unwilling to take, simply because I'd lack confidence in my ability to accurately read how they were likely to react.
--
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville


dbarber

join:2000-07-25
West Chester, PA
said by Blackbird:

I'm not so sure what the effect would be on American support for Israel. It certainly didn't suffer that large a lasting 'hit' when Israel knowingly attacked the USS Liberty intel ship in the eastern Med back in the late 60's.

But that was an "accident"! They didn't see the ten foot American flag, even though gun camera footage made it quite clear.
If they can plaster over that, they can fix almost anything. I mean who's going to miss a couple of "hackers"?
--
These opinions are strictly my own. However, if you really want them, we can negotiate.


goalieskates
Premium
join:2004-09-12
land of big
reply to Blackbird
said by Blackbird:

I'm not so sure what the effect would be on American support for Israel. ... While Israel values her relations with the US, she makes her own security determinations of who and what to hit based on her own priorities and survival perceptions... and those certainly don't always line up with American viewpoints of what is acceptable or not.

Come to that, I'm not sure there's a consistent American viewpoint, especially now. The current government is against Al Qaeda except when it's not politically expedient. I give you Benghazi.

We sacrificed far more than an ambassador. After that, Anonymous doesn't even hit the radar.