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Sakki54

join:2012-11-20
Tyler, TX
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
reply to S1R1US

Re: [Connectivity] Terrible Ping during downloads/games

Torrents: Rarely
Throttles: None on my end, idk about if Suddenlink is throttling though
Phones: Yes, though the only auto-upload is when my iPhone is plugged in to my computer, which is rare, and it's through Dropbox

I know that it's this specific time as we had all thanksgiving off last week and I pretty much no-lifed Black Ops 2 and this was the only time I had any problems with anything, also I'm going to be away tonight so I can't do any checks but tomorrow I will. How would I bypass the modem, if that's possible. I have phone & net with suddenlink and it comes in as a coaxial and neither my computer nor router can use a coaxial.

@moldypickle I sent him a message but no reply yet.

@jdmm72 Wouldn't a tracert during the problematic time say the same thing?



moldypickle

join:2009-01-04
Haughton, LA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
reply to jdmm72

said by jdmm72:

The IP address is usually the inbound interface on your router (or PC if no router), not the actual modem itself.

I can run smokepings all day w/ everything powered down except the modem. Has always worked that way for me /shrug

jdmm72

join:2002-02-12
Nitro, WV

My modem gets a 10.x.x.x address. That is a private address and can't be used on the internet. My router gets the public IP address.



S1R1US

join:2002-08-25
Clearwater, FL
reply to Sakki54

Okay cool. Torrents can be the devil when it comes to user experience if the connection is getting maxed heh.

As far as throttling by the ISP, I don't know if SL does that or not but if they do I think it's a least safe to say it's not relevant as far as your ping results go. Throttling should just be limiting how much bandwidth you're capable of using. I would think a bad ping is stemming from something else.

I think I've missed something somewhere so I apologize if I'm making you be repetitive. What were you referencing your computer & router not having an actual coax connection for?


jdmm72

join:2002-02-12
Nitro, WV
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
reply to Sakki54

Excessive uploads will limit the download connection. Connections to backup services like Carbonite, Mozy, or Crashplan will kill your connection during the initial upload. Torrent uploads are the same way too, your upload is like 2Mbps, can be saturated easily.


Sakki54

join:2012-11-20
Tyler, TX
reply to S1R1US

You asked me to try and bypass the hardware and I was saying I couldn't.

@jdmm72 It's called your 'Local IP Address'. Mine is normally 192.168.1.1 but it switches every now and then between 10.0.0.1 and 172.0.0.1


jdmm72

join:2002-02-12
Nitro, WV
Reviews:
·Suddenlink

said by Sakki54:

You asked me to try and bypass the hardware and I was saying I couldn't.

@jdmm72 It's called your 'Local IP Address'. Mine is normally 192.168.1.1 but it switches every now and then between 10.0.0.1 and 172.0.0.1

The 10.x.x.x is not on my network, it is on SL's network, it sometimes shows up in traceroutes, but not always. My local is in the 10.x.x.x network but that is after NAT, SL's 10.x.x.x network is before NAT.


S1R1US

join:2002-08-25
Clearwater, FL
reply to Sakki54

said by shelby10763:

I'd start with your router. Have you connected your PC to directly to the modem and tried replicate the issue?

said by Sakki54:

Yes. It'll do this router or not.

I guess this is where I'm getting thrown off. You mentioned not being able to bypass equipment because your router and computer don't have a coax hookup. Part of the troubleshooting that's been suggested is to eliminate your router as a factor at the very least, but talking about not being able to bypass it somewhat contradicts what you said originally. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding.

said by Sakki54:

You asked me to try and bypass the hardware and I was saying I couldn't.

The modem would be connected to your computer not through coax but ethernet so that shouldn't be an issue. Can you connect your modem directly to your computer for 24-48 hours and report back?

Sakki54

join:2012-11-20
Tyler, TX

When you said bypass equipment I took it as to not use the modem. And I'm 100% sure it's not my router as A) it does this router or not B) it shows 1ms ping to my router on the tracert



S1R1US

join:2002-08-25
Clearwater, FL

2 edits

I don't doubt the router isn't a factor, but as far as troubleshooting goes it's 100 times better to diagnose when a router isn't involved. Your router could be fine but your roommates cell phone could be doing massive updates every time they're home and you not know it. That might not even cause a problem, but just as an example. Having unnecessary devices bypassed is simply the smartest way to start and continue troubleshooting.

In my opinion, replicating the issue while the router is bypassed is great and all, but is not thorough enough. It needs to be left bypassed until the problem is identified. Even if the problem were very clearly outside of your home connection, I still suggest bypassing equipment until the issue is fixed.

said by Sakki54:

@moldypickle I sent him a message but no reply yet.

Any reply from Pete Abel yet? If not, maybe reply publicly letting him know to look out for another new PM from you?

»Review of Suddenlink by Sakki54

Moostang

join:2009-03-24
Tyler, TX
reply to Sakki54

said by Sakki54:

Since I know it's not my modem's bandwidth, what should my next step be?

How do you know that? Are you graphing your connection somehow? There are many things like the World of Warcraft client (among many others) that use peer to peer sharing (unless you disable the feature) that will consume every bit of your modems upstream bandwidth and if you don't know what to look for, you'll never know it.


moldypickle

join:2009-01-04
Haughton, LA
kudos:2

The wow client updater actually needs to be running to use idle bandwidth, and I don't think people usually leave that open w/out the game...


Sakki54

join:2012-11-20
Tyler, TX
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
reply to Moostang

I know it's not the bandwidth because it only happens during this time and it happens w/ any device/no devices connected. What I mean is only my computer connected (Hardwired from Modem), 300+ ping terrible dl speeds. Only my iPhone connected (Can check devices connected thru router), 300+ ping terrible dl speeds. Funny thing is how my upload can stay a consistent 1.5. Just wondering, what's a normal Downstream on the Touchstone Modem Status thing?



S1R1US

join:2002-08-25
Clearwater, FL

1 edit

Where are you getting these ping speeds from? Initially, when I read about you referencing high ping times and poor gaming performance my automatic thought was your ping as represented in the game itself. How are you seeing your ping speeds from your cell phone? I ask this because even informed troubleshooters of desktops might not automatically know exactly how to obtain the same information via their cell phone. Are you talking about ping results you're getting on your cell phone as illustrated by speed test apps?

I'd at least like to point out that we aren't asking this variety of questions to prove you wrong or be difficult, but because it literally takes asking this level of questions to accurately assess what's entirely involved. I say entirely because there could be multiple things happening. 'Duplicating' the problem on your cell phone doesn't necessarily say the two results are related. Perhaps correlated, but not necessarily caused by the same thing. Point in case, the purpose of bypassing a router is to perform tests with all external equipment eliminated as a variable. Testing from a cell phone is effectively ignoring this and using external equipment while also adding yet another variable, the cell phone. In plenty of cases it's a fine method; if you test your phone at your friend's house, neighbor's house, and place of employment with no problems, it seems to make sense that a different result at your home between a certain time would indicate a clear problem. When using your phone though you are very clearly doing a completely different test. You're factoring in the result relative to your wifi network. All it would take is for you to have an 802.11b device connected to your network for it to cap your 802.11n device to only be operable to the capacity of a 'b' device. Let me point out that the analogy I just used isn't directly comparable to your situation because even with that example it wouldn't necessarily explain high ping times.


Sakki54

join:2012-11-20
Tyler, TX
Reviews:
·Suddenlink

I get speed/ping tests on my iPhone/iPad it's from SpeedTest.net's app iOS app.
On my pc it's from PingTest.net, PingPlotter, Games, TeamSpeak, and SmokePing.

I don't do much gaming but I watch a lot of YouTube and it's near impossible to watch an HQ (Think it's 720p) vid during bad times, yet I can watch a 1080p vid from YouTube on my computer during normal times easily.



SDL L3Tech

join:2011-06-07
Tyler, TX
kudos:28

1 edit
reply to S1R1US

Click for full size
Green is upload, blue is download
Click for full size
Pingplotter showing latency
I built a graph for your connection and I am also running a PingPlotter trace to your modem's private IP and your network's public IP.

Pingplotter showed high latency to your equipment that started right before 8pm but no latency to the modem itself. The graph shows a significant increase in upstream traffic originating from your network. Since the Upload bandwidth of a cable modem is low, it is very easy to overutilize it which causes the high latency.

I have attached the graphs. Pingplotter is zoomed down to 60 minutes. The graph however is a 5 minute average and only polls once every 5 minutes. You'll note the green dot next to the text box in the graph, which is showing what the usage was at that time.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Sakki54

join:2012-11-20
Tyler, TX
Reviews:
·Suddenlink

The upload spike is from a crappy messed up laptop that whenever it connects to wifi, at any time, causes similar results to my timed problems. No idea why it does it but that specific laptop alone (no other devices) kills my net... This isn't the problem that I've been experiencing though. It'll still have that timed problem if the laptop isn't on, hasn't been on for ~2-3 days, or I've bypassed the router.

Is there some way that I can continuously have some active thing going that uses up my net? My ping is only bad when I'm actually doing something and I'm pretty busy during the week so I won't really be able to show the problems.

I ran PingPlotter after that laptop was turned off and I got ~20ms pings to Google, I then started to dl a ~800mb file and my ping started to spike, go down, and spike again in a constant loop.



S1R1US

join:2002-08-25
Clearwater, FL

3 edits

@SDL L3Tech, Great information. Mind if I message you privately to get some advice on how I might be able to generate and correctly read similar information when I'm troubleshooting my own connection?

@Sakki, Something that is leery to hear as someone helping another troubleshoot, is why the 'crappy messed up' laptop is even connected to the network at all during this last week or more of troubleshooting. Until the issue is fixed and fully evaluated, no device should ever have access your network except one (hardwired of course; whichever is not 'crappy' or has the least 'crappiness' to it heh. I'm not suggesting this is your problem, but there could very easily be spyware on one or all of your devices that is timed to only activate during certain times of the day. This is not unheard of for spyware/malware because often times customers and/or providers may attribute consistent and/or repeatable problems during particular times as a problem with network congestion or the home network, when in reality it's something malicious running in the background locally on the user's computer that is scheduled to activate at only the busier times of the day to be more easily masked.

It makes it difficult for 3rd party users to help diagnose the problem, and even more difficulty for your provider, when a problem with your connection is being misrepresented by you because the state of your home network is constantly changing. I don't think a Suddenlink tech should ever have been able to produce the results provided in the post above by accident because your 'bad laptop' just so happened to be connected. How can we expect for you to get the full level of support from your provider's dedicated teams if they aren't fully aware of each and every variable at play, at any given time? You have to leave your connection completely isolated from all outside devices except 1 hardwired. Until SL says 'we will no longer help you', you should not access your network from your cell phone, your laptop, and same goes for anyone else in your home. I don't mean just don't connect to the wifi network. I mean disconnect the router altogether. If it's a combo modem/router given to you by your provider, work with them to just disable it until your issue is definitively tracked down. However long you've been a customer and however frustrating or inconvenient it's been so far, as long as you continue paying your bill you should give them the best possible opportunity to thoroughly help you.



S1R1US

join:2002-08-25
Clearwater, FL
reply to Sakki54

@SDL L3Tech lol nevermind at part of my last post referencing you. Somehow I ignored the fact that your title refers to you being a representative of Suddenlink haha. I was thinking that you were just a bystander like myself, and who happened to have a way to produce the results you illustrated for any user as long as you had their IP addresses. I think now understand that the reason you were also able to provide bandwidth information like that is because you are actually able to monitor on that level, much different than I might be able to do for just anyone by doing ping tests, tracerts, etc.



moldypickle

join:2009-01-04
Haughton, LA
kudos:2

Hence why I try to get people to get ahold of him when I suspect a network issue. He has access to the network that we don't.



S1R1US

join:2002-08-25
Clearwater, FL

Only downside is most users think their provider is biased, so without realizing it they can tend to provide biased information to their provider. Human nature. -_- We've all done it in some way shape or form, at some point. I try to always recommend the same in conjunction with fact checking with an unbiased community like here on dslr so that any lost confidence in the provider can be regained or reinforced.


Moostang

join:2009-03-24
Tyler, TX
reply to Sakki54

It would be nice to know what on your laptop is consuming all of your upload bandwidth. Perhaps it spread to the rest of your network just not as severe?



SDL L3Tech

join:2011-06-07
Tyler, TX
kudos:28

1 edit
reply to Sakki54

Click for full size
Cable Modem
Click for full size
Customer Equipment
Here are the Pingplotter graphs for the past 6 hours. First one is to the modem's private IP and the second is to your equipment. The (edit) bandwidth graph is not picking up any bandwidth spikes though like I mentioned before, the graph is not very granular. If the bandwidth usage is a brief burst of traffic then the bandwidth graph will likely not pick it up. Pingplotter picks up all of the latency because it polls every second.

There is a possibility that the modem's Ethernet port may be having a problem. Traffic to the private IP of the modem itself does not go through the Ethernet port but traffic to your Public IP does.

You might ask the local office to swap your modem. Or you can ask them to provide you with a dedicated Docsis 3.0 modem and move your internet service from your current combo modem to the new modem. You'll need to pick up a coax splitter to get both modems online at the same time.

Sakki54

join:2012-11-20
Tyler, TX
Reviews:
·Suddenlink

I currently have a: "ARRIS DOCSIS 2.0 / PacketCable 1.0 Touchstone Telephony Modem". If I were to switch to a Docsis 3.0 what would I do? Call the local support and ask for an upgrade? I got a new modem, same model, a few months ago and about 1month before I had problems with the ping.

@S1R1US Sorry. I didn't really think that skipping the router was that important but I've done it now.

@Moostang I dunno what's up with that laptop. It's the only device that does that and it'l do it if it's sitting at the desktop with nothing running or if it has 50 things downloading.



SDL L3Tech

join:2011-06-07
Tyler, TX
kudos:28

No, not an upgrade. A split. The modem you have right now is a combo Phone/Data modem and it's docsis 2.0. A docsis 3.0 modem would be dedicated to data and would allow your connection to bond to multiple downstreams. If you don't want to try two modems, just get a new combo modem and try that. It may not help anyway if the problem is not the modem.

In regards to the Laptop, it must have something running to generate enough bandwidth to saturate your upstream. If there is not a legitimate application doing it then run anti-virus and anti-spyware software to try to figure it out.


Sakki54

join:2012-11-20
Tyler, TX
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
reply to Sakki54

My ping was going good tonight. It was a steady ~12ms ping and ~6mbps dl. Not what I'm supposed to get, speed wise, but better than normal. So I plugged my router back in to see and my ping spiked back up to the ~300ms and dl went back down to 1.5-3. Then I bypassed my router again and the problem was still there. It wasn't there before my router, but was there during and after.

Note: I had the wifi part of the router disabled to make sure no other devices were interfering. The only device connected to the router was my computer.



S1R1US

join:2002-08-25
Clearwater, FL
reply to Sakki54

Have there been any new developments on this?



SDL L3Tech

join:2011-06-07
Tyler, TX
kudos:28
reply to Sakki54

Interestingly enough, my own cable modem is on this same downstream group, though different node (same bandwidth pipe) and I am not experiencing this latency. However, I am using a Docsis 3.0 modem.

I started a couple more PingPlotter traces to modems near you Sakki to see if those too have the latency of if it's localized to your connection.



SDL L3Tech

join:2011-06-07
Tyler, TX
kudos:28
reply to Sakki54

Sakki, I ran plots to a modem before and after your house number and did not see the extreme latency. One was a combo telephony modem and one was a normal Docsis 2 modem. This has to be a localized problem. Have you contacted your local office to swap the modem or split telephony and data services between two modems?



S1R1US

join:2002-08-25
Clearwater, FL

This has to be one of the best displays of thorough troubleshooting I've seen. Very well done SuddenLink. Attempting to duplicate results with immediate neighbors is an excellent way to uncover a pattern, or lack there-of.