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34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

1 edit
reply to Guspaz

Re: OVH pricing at Montreal datacenter is... insane?

said by Guspaz:

What a funny guy? Rogers and Videotron combined are roughly 2 million broadband subs between them, and Canada has roughly 10 million in total. Those two ISPs alone are 20% of all broadband subs, not a bad start for direct peering... If they can get peering with Bell, that would take them up to 50% right there.

I don't consider that a "pretty good chunk" and that still leaves out Bell, Telus, Allstream, Shaw and a few others. It's peering with Rogers, transit from Videotron.

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to jmck
said by jmck:

The only other large consumer provider

Anyways, I don't even see the point to this

I'm sure they'll increasing their private and public peering over time in Canada, but they can't just go and peer with Tier 1s that would rather sell them bandwidth.

There is more to the Internet than just DSL / cable connections.

You've made that pretty clear.

Who said anything about peering? They could have made better choices for their Canadian transit options or purchased additional transit from other providers to fill in the gaps.

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to julienvf
said by julienvf:

said by Guru:

said by julienvf:

I didn't get charged any taxes on the 119 euros yearly plan...

I bought a $39 server from OVH.ca today and got charged tax.

Yea, you bought it on the .ca domain while I got mine on the EU site.

funny your admiting to tax avoidance/evasion.
boy ive read this thread and you all better hope someone isnt asking dslreports for ips like voltage did.

Ree

join:2007-04-29
h0h0h0
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
said by funny0:

funny your admiting to tax avoidance/evasion.
boy ive read this thread and you all better hope someone isnt asking dslreports for ips like voltage did.

I'd love to hear your explanation of how that is tax avoidance and/or evasion.


rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
reply to 34764170
Aren't Rogers and Videotron owned by the same conglamorate/are sister companies? I could have sworn I read that somewhere but can't find it now...

Satya

join:2011-09-11
Mississauga, ON
reply to Guspaz
I have been renting servers with OVH since 2006. Before they allowed only French citizens and countries with official languages as French to buy on their site www.ovh.com Montreal was part of that and the only province in Canada to be able to order directly. Otherwise you needed a french address and a french credit card number.

OVH was cheap at that point too offering 100mbit unmetered servers for 40-50 euros a month. They became really popular and were able to grow massively partly because of their pricing which lured all p2p users to rent their servers as "seedboxes". Resellers who were able to order form france were selling servers at a good 20 euros premium making them very profitable.

Seeing their business boom rapidly, they were able to internalize all their operations from building their own datacenters, to eco friendly electricity generation, build their own servers from scratch, own land and property rather than lease. All these business deals made them pass their savings to customers on their lower range of the servers.

However, OVH is not premium routing. If you download using a single thread and you are in Canada, you will get around 200-300KB/sec tops. Compare that to someone like softlayer.nl or nforce.nl or other premium providers you will see the difference. But NOONE can touch ovh on the budget range and that has what made them popular.

You can still order servers from www.ovh.ie and rent their servers and have a choice of the datacenter you want to pick. Most pick RBX which is roubaix in france and strasbourg is their relatively newer one in europe.

You can check the network map that OVH has from here ->

»weathermap.ovh.net

You can register on their forums here -> »forums.ovh.co.uk

You can check the status of their network issues, their work in progress on various datacenters, router issues, outages here

--> »status.ovh.net


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to Guspaz
Why would we ever pick the RBX datacenter instead of the Canadian datacenter?
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org

julienvf

join:2008-12-30
Verdun, QC
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Acanac
said by Guspaz:

Why would we ever pick the RBX datacenter instead of the Canadian datacenter?

I was gonna ask the same thing. If you want to see how dl speed would be from their european datacenter, simply try a speedtest from www.ovh.net which is in France.


jmck
formerly 'shaded'

join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Start Communicat..
reply to Satya
I'm sorry but i have several customers that use my services hosted on OVH including all over the US (using comcast, verizon FIOS, cox.net) and a few here (rogers, videotron, start.ca) and they all are able to mostly saturate their lines.

TSI seems to be the one exception even with a private peer setup last week.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to rednekcowboy
said by rednekcowboy:

Aren't Rogers and Videotron owned by the same conglamorate/are sister companies? I could have sworn I read that somewhere but can't find it now...

No, they aren't.

But they were roommates at the "School of Customer Gouging".

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to Guspaz
said by Guspaz:

Why would we ever pick the RBX datacenter instead of the Canadian datacenter?

Dunno. But they might pick the Irish datacentre to establish a 'legal' presence in Ireland for their Netherlands Antillies operations.

Satya

join:2011-09-11
Mississauga, ON
reply to Guspaz
in p2p world..the reasons are unlimited..if that is not your need..then you pick the datacenter that will give you the best routing to your location


hm

@videotron.ca
So what's the consensus of everyone here with OVH?

Yay or Nay?

Worth it? Better value can be found at "X" (insert name here)?

Anyone actually using them? Beefs?

Ree

join:2007-04-29
h0h0h0
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
said by hm :

So what's the consensus of everyone here with OVH?

Yay or Nay?

Worth it? Better value can be found at "X" (insert name here)?

Anyone actually using them? Beefs?

I don't think you'll find a better bang for your buck. I've been using them for several months and no beefs yet.

I think the real test will be the first time something dies like a hard-drive and I have to wait for support to fix it. I've heard stories going both ways -- some say replacement was quick and easy, others have said it was a nightmare procedure.

I take lots of backups and don't host anything mission-critical, so even nightmare support wouldn't be such a big deal in my case so that's why I'm with them. Yay or Nay is entirely dependent on your particular situation though.

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to julienvf
said by julienvf:

said by Guru:

said by julienvf:

I didn't get charged any taxes on the 119 euros yearly plan...

I bought a $39 server from OVH.ca today and got charged tax.

Yea, you bought it on the .ca domain while I got mine on the EU site.

so your admitting to tax evasion? oh my...

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to Guspaz
said by Guspaz:

What a funny guy? Rogers and Videotron combined are roughly 2 million broadband subs between them, and Canada has roughly 10 million in total. Those two ISPs alone are 20% of all broadband subs, not a bad start for direct peering... If they can get peering with Bell, that would take them up to 50% right there.

by subs you mean users subscribers WRONG in 2006 sandvine came up with 24 million accounts and 5.4 million p2p users at one time and 4 months later it jumped to 9.8 million see a trend....
anyhow cant tell on validity BUT last september CBC ran some internet article saying we had 21 million net users. lost 3 million since caps were introduced....
thats a lot of revenue they lost for being silly
take bell
both me and my dad have dropped them ( ONLY what tsi gives them is what they get now )
so you get a tv /phone loss on my dads side and phone and net loss to whatever tsi gives them.

no wonder they THINK THEY NEED caps now....they screwed themsleves for customers and its a need fer greed issue.

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to Ree
said by Ree:

said by funny0:

funny your admiting to tax avoidance/evasion.
boy ive read this thread and you all better hope someone isnt asking dslreports for ips like voltage did.

I'd love to hear your explanation of how that is tax avoidance and/or evasion.

if you buy a service and are supposed to pay a taxes on it and AVOID OR EVADE them by skirting rules or finding a technicality of location know this...there actually is a law on the books to catch pedobears that is in effect ...what a canuck does on the net OUR LAWS APPLY....thus if your buying internet server from ovh and its located in canada but using a site in EU and evading taxes if they really wanted to come sideways at you they could for it....it also ina future of any issue you have be just something else they add on you to make you look even worse in front of any judge.

OH and trust me they will be far quicker at closing loopholes for small fry then big corporate types that use the nation of belize to launder money....( where was it helena and jaffer vacationed again?)


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to Ree
said by Ree:

said by hm :

So what's the consensus of everyone here with OVH?

Yay or Nay?

Worth it? Better value can be found at "X" (insert name here)?

Anyone actually using them? Beefs?

I don't think you'll find a better bang for your buck. I've been using them for several months and no beefs yet.

I think the real test will be the first time something dies like a hard-drive and I have to wait for support to fix it. I've heard stories going both ways -- some say replacement was quick and easy, others have said it was a nightmare procedure.

I take lots of backups and don't host anything mission-critical, so even nightmare support wouldn't be such a big deal in my case so that's why I'm with them. Yay or Nay is entirely dependent on your particular situation though.

TY for the response, Ree.

About routing...

Read further up that some people have a very poor response times to their servers. Was this limited to TSI users? Is it fixed now? Shaw, Telus and Cogeco land have no issues?

Anyone know?

Ree

join:2007-04-29
h0h0h0
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to funny0
said by funny0:

if you buy a service and are supposed to pay a taxes on it and AVOID OR EVADE them by skirting rules or finding a technicality of location know this...there actually is a law on the books to catch pedobears that is in effect

And why do you assume he ordered from the EU site to avoid taxes? If you'd looked into things before making your accusation, you would know it's much more likely that he ordered from the EU site because it is the only one that sells that particular server.

The CA site sells the mid to high-end Kimsufi servers, the EU site currently has a special offering one of the low-end Kimsufi servers.

said by hm :

Read further up that some people have a very poor response times to their servers. Was this limited to TSI users? Is it fixed now? Shaw, Telus and Cogeco land have no issues?

I've only seen a TekSavvy user report it, but it's entirely possible that other ISPs are affected and their users just aren't noticing/reporting it.

All is well with Rogers though -- backing up my ESXi VMs via rsync maxes the 100mbit connection.

green92

join:2013-01-26
Montreal, QC
reply to Guspaz
OVH service is pretty good. They may have the biggest data center on Earth now in Montreal. If only they could provide VoIP and internet in Canada as they do in France that would be a awesome!
I pay only 1.18 euro/month for unlimited calls to 100+ countries.
And could shake our beloved canadian ISPs that rip us all !

analog andy

join:2005-01-03
Surrey, BC
reply to Guspaz
I was going to get one of their $39 servers for hosting a game but the ping was quite a bit slower (93-120ms) from Surrey to OVH (proof.ovh.ca) vs Surrey to Denver (VPS NFOserversms) (64-98ms)

I guess the routing is more efficient to the Denver location vs going through Canada?

julienvf

join:2008-12-30
Verdun, QC
kudos:1
I get about 24-25ms ping from Montréal but traffic is routed through torix (Toronto back and forth).


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to Guspaz
Routing? No, more like Denver is a fraction the distance from BC as compared to Montreal... Surrey to Denver is ~2,300 km, while Surrey to Montreal is ~4,500 km.

In terms of latency, I pinged DSL_Ricer's father's OVH box from my Montreal TekSavvy connection and got a stable 21ms. It went through TorIX. The lower latency is probably due to being on VDSL2 (which has lower first-hop latency).
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org

analog andy

join:2005-01-03
Surrey, BC
said by Guspaz:

Routing? No, more like Denver is a fraction the distance from BC as compared to Montreal... Surrey to Denver is ~2,300 km, while Surrey to Montreal is ~4,500 km.

In terms of latency, I pinged DSL_Ricer's father's OVH box from my Montreal TekSavvy connection and got a stable 21ms. It went through TorIX. The lower latency is probably due to being on VDSL2 (which has lower first-hop latency).

Odd as my ping to a server at Netelligent has always been in the 70's and to OVH its in the 90/100's even NFOservers NY is in the 90's/100's.

I just need a cheap game server, $39 is a crazy price. I guess I could get two different ones East (OVH) and West (VPS NFO Seattle) then use the OVH one to host the map files.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to Guspaz
Netelligent is still 1000 km closer to you than Montreal...

Seriously, look at a map. Latency scales with geographic distance.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org

analog andy

join:2005-01-03
Surrey, BC
said by Guspaz:

Netelligent is still 1000 km closer to you than Montreal...

Seriously, look at a map. Latency scales with geographic distance.

My old Netelligent dedi server and shared account are both in Montreal.

OVH

1 4 ms 3 ms 5 ms 192.168.0.1
2 70 ms 99 ms 99 ms 192.168.1.254
3 90 ms 44 ms 45 ms zz20920586075.cipherkey.net [209.205.86.75]
4 43 ms 44 ms 45 ms xx208110096019.cipherkey.com [208.110.96.19]
5 44 ms 43 ms 44 ms xx208110096090.cipherkey.com [208.110.96.90]
6 43 ms 44 ms 43 ms 67.69.228.189
7 44 ms 47 ms 43 ms core2-vancouver_POS3-0.net.bell.ca [64.230.248.6
1]
8 111 ms 112 ms 110 ms core4-vancouver_pos0-0-1.net.bell.ca [64.230.183
.38]
9 114 ms 115 ms 113 ms tcore4-toronto12_POS0-8-0-0.net.bell.ca [64.230.
147.209]
10 112 ms 112 ms 113 ms newcore2-chicago23_so2-0-0.net.bell.ca [64.230.1
47.174]
11 110 ms 110 ms 111 ms bx5-chicagodt_xe0-1-0_0 [64.230.186.255]
12 110 ms * * eqx.chi.ovh.net [206.223.119.152]
13 131 ms 129 ms 128 ms 198.27.73.173
14 * 127 ms 127 ms bhs-g1-6k.qc.ca [198.27.73.5]
15 207 ms 251 ms 212 ms bhs-1-6k.qc.ca [198.27.73.12]
16 129 ms 129 ms 129 ms 8.7.244.2

Netelligent

1 3 ms 4 ms 4 ms 192.168.0.1
2 81 ms 99 ms 99 ms 192.168.1.254
3 47 ms 48 ms 58 ms zz20920586075.cipherkey.net [209.205.86.75]
4 43 ms 46 ms 44 ms xx208110096019.cipherkey.com [208.110.96.19]
5 44 ms 44 ms 44 ms xx208110096026.cipherkey.com [208.110.96.26]
6 44 ms 44 ms 45 ms 67.69.228.189
7 106 ms 107 ms 108 ms core2-vancouver_POS3-0.net.bell.ca [64.230.248.6
1]
8 106 ms 105 ms 104 ms core4-vancouver_pos0-0-1.net.bell.ca [64.230.183
.38]
9 110 ms 110 ms 107 ms tcore4-toronto47_POS0-12-1-0.net.bell.ca [64.230
.147.193]
10 106 ms 107 ms 107 ms 64.230.147.129
11 114 ms 109 ms 113 ms tcore3-montreal02_POS0-7-0-0_core.net.bell.ca [6
4.230.168.97]
12 108 ms 105 ms 105 ms agg1-montreal02_xe5-0-0.net.bell.ca [64.230.170.
242]
13 104 ms 106 ms 105 ms dis53-montreal02_5-0-0.net.bell.ca [64.230.169.1
70]
14 106 ms 105 ms 107 ms 67.69.244.158
15 111 ms 110 ms 111 ms 209.44.125.160
16 105 ms 106 ms 105 ms todd.dnsprive.com [209.44.106.221]



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to Guspaz
Fair enough (I was going by their headquarters connection), but the majority of your problems seem to be your own connection, since you have what appears to be basically 43ms + of first-hop latency. And the extra latency to OVH seems to be entirely a factor of Bell Canada refusing to peer at TorIX, forcing the connection to take a detour. Bell's arrogance and intransigence is turning the ~550km trip from Montreal to Toronto into a 2200km trip. Bell's self-absorbed peering policies are adding 1700 kilometers to the journey.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
reply to Guspaz
Might I add Rogers has fantastic peering through TorIX. Always low latency to my OVH servers.

Tracing route to 8.7.244.2 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 10.0.0.1
2 8 ms 8 ms 6 ms 7.41.204.1
3 27 ms 23 ms 14 ms 24.156.149.97
4 17 ms 14 ms 14 ms 69.63.250.218
5 14 ms 13 ms 12 ms 69.63.248.190
6 30 ms * 14 ms gw-ovh.torontointernetxchange.net [206.108.34.18
9]
7 21 ms * 23 ms mtl-2-6k.qc.ca [178.32.135.71]
8 * 22 ms * bhs-g1-6k.qc.ca [198.27.73.5]
9 21 ms * * bhs-1-6k.qc.ca [198.27.73.12]
10 22 ms 22 ms 22 ms 8.7.244.2

Trace complete.

analog andy

join:2005-01-03
Surrey, BC

1 edit
reply to Guspaz
said by Guspaz:

Fair enough (I was going by their headquarters connection), but the majority of your problems seem to be your own connection, since you have what appears to be basically 43ms + of first-hop latency. And the extra latency to OVH seems to be entirely a factor of Bell Canada refusing to peer at TorIX, forcing the connection to take a detour. Bell's arrogance and intransigence is turning the ~550km trip from Montreal to Toronto into a 2200km trip. Bell's self-absorbed peering policies are adding 1700 kilometers to the journey.

Well there's always some dick head that doesn't want to play fair in the sand pit.

At $39 its quite tempting to get one. I might just have to cancel my adsl connection (keeping one for backup purposes) and get that server.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
said by analog andy:

Well there's always some dick head that doesn't want to play fair in the sand pit.

It really is. Every other major incumbent ISP in Ontario/Quebec and many more eastern ones peer at TorIX. Rogers, Videotron, Cogeco, Bell Aliant, Eastlink, Shaw... Even some American incumbents peer, like Frontier and AT&T... Admittedly, some like AT&T and Videotron are no longer actively peering despite their connection (Videotron to TekSavvy goes through Limelight), although for this specific case Videotron peers directly with OVH.

said by analog andy:

At $39 its quite tempting to get one. I might just have to cancel my adsl connection (keeping one for backup purposes) and get that server.

You missed the better deal, where they had Atom servers (which still had huge bandwidth and hard drives) in Montreal selling for 119 euros per year. That's what DSL_Ricer's dad got.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org