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analog andy
join:2005-01-03
Surrey, BC

analog andy to jmck

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to jmck

Re: OVH pricing at Montreal datacenter is... insane?

said by jmck:

i can't imagine you'd get better latency to a german provider coming from Canada.

I did, my ping went down 10-15MS from Roubaix DC to Hetzner DC. Hetnzer seems to have better routing.

Hetzner did have a set up fee so that sucked but oh well.

jmck
formerly 'shaded'
join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON

jmck

Member

right, but you know they have a datacenter in Montreal which is the entire point of this thread. it would be almost impossible for you to get lower latency to a server in Germany compared to here in North America.
analog andy
join:2005-01-03
Surrey, BC

analog andy

Member

Hence why I wrote OVH.ie My routing to OVH.ca was 128+ ms and to Hetzner its 185 still more then playable for my game. Actually most of my EU players also got a better ping from Hetzner then from OVH.ie.
Cyborg994
join:2005-04-18
Montreal, QC

Cyborg994 to Guspaz

Member

to Guspaz
Seems like the latency betwwen OVH Beauharnois and teksavvy is fixed, getting 24 ms now.

I am on Teksavvy Quebec Cable (Videotron network).

rustydusty
join:2009-09-29
Red Deer County, AB

rustydusty to Guspaz

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to Guspaz
Any further updates regarding the service in Montreal? Mostly curious about routes and such incase of possible latency critical applications.

jmck
formerly 'shaded'
join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON

jmck

Member

said by rustydusty:

Any further updates regarding the service in Montreal? Mostly curious about routes and such incase of possible latency critical applications.

they peer at TorIX which covers a lot of ISPs in eastern Canada. they also have a nice weather map that not only shows where they peer and where they connect to various tier 1s as well as the current capacity % for each link.

»weathermap.ovh.net/usa

looking at it today, it seems they've recently added a private peer to Rogers as indicated in the weather map tool, they've also been building out their North American capacity quite a bit too in the last 4 months.
DSL_Ricer
Premium Member
join:2007-07-22

DSL_Ricer

Premium Member

Despite being in Montreal (on Colba), I'm getting routed through torix. So that's adding 24ms to my round trip to OVH. I'm not sure if that's just Colba being cheap or typical routing for Montreal ISPs since it's public IX launched recently.

The other weird thing the trace shows is 9ms going to torix and then 15ms returning to Montreal on OVH's line (each a single hop). You'd think it'd be the same.

martyb1
join:2013-05-18
Wemindji, QC

martyb1

Member

Colba is not on the "public IX"; there is barely anybody there in fact, OVH having chosen to wait and see who would peer there before committing...:

telnet rs-1.qix.ca
Trying 198.179.18.253...
Connected to rs-1.qix.ca (198.179.18.253).
Escape character is '^]'.
RS1.QIX.CA>show ip bgp su
RS1.QIX.CA>show ip bgp summary
BGP router identifier 198.179.18.253, local AS number 55176
BGP table version is 2878, main routing table version 2878
380 network entries using 94240 bytes of memory
380 path entries using 42560 bytes of memory
99/99 BGP path/bestpath attribute entries using 22176 bytes of memory
79 BGP AS-PATH entries using 3692 bytes of memory
7 BGP community entries using 200 bytes of memory
0 BGP route-map cache entries using 0 bytes of memory
0 BGP filter-list cache entries using 0 bytes of memory
BGP using 162868 total bytes of memory
BGP activity 1442/1062 prefixes, 1589/1209 paths, scan interval 60 secs

Neighbor V AS MsgRcvd MsgSent TblVer InQ OutQ Up/Down State/PfxRcd
198.179.18.3 4 46609 67328 74621 2878 0 0 6w4d 15
198.179.18.4 4 21548 12668 12830 2878 0 0 4d02h 343
198.179.18.6 4 22652 0 0 1 0 0 never Active
198.179.18.7 4 29909 0 0 1 0 0 never Idle
198.179.18.8 4 16532 138021 65517 2878 0 0 1w6d 22

I would be curious to see this traceroute?

Hopefully there will be more enthusiasm for QIX over the summer... and it would be nice of OVH to peer there perhaps to foster interest in the Montreal ISP community to themselves be members at QIX as well...
DSL_Ricer
Premium Member
join:2007-07-22

DSL_Ricer

Premium Member

On OVH's weather map they list QIX. I assume that's the old one?

martyb1
join:2013-05-18
Wemindji, QC

martyb1

Member

that would be surprising since Colba is at last time I knew of it on the old QIX. Therefore your traceroute would go there instead.
DSL_Ricer
Premium Member
join:2007-07-22

DSL_Ricer

Premium Member

I was under the impression the old qix was just a peering point to risq, and 3rd party to 3rd party wasn't allowed on the exchange.
DSL_Ricer

DSL_Ricer to martyb1

Premium Member

to martyb1
Here's the traceroute. To OVH:
 1  heracles.enter-net.com (ZZZ)  35.676 ms  37.753 ms  38.717 ms
 2  vip-433.enter-net.com (216.252.64.1)  39.180 ms  41.123 ms  42.596 ms
 3  INX-R00-S-166-109.hostlogistic.com (206.125.166.109)  42.579 ms  44.656 ms  46.322 ms
 4  INX-R00-S-165-248.hostlogistic.com (206.125.165.248)  46.877 ms  48.258 ms  50.922 ms
 5  gw-ovh.torontointernetxchange.net (206.108.34.189)  58.017 ms * *
 6  mtl-2-6k.qc.ca (178.32.135.71)  80.823 ms  62.511 ms *
 7  bhs-g2-6k.qc.ca (198.27.73.7)  62.759 ms * *
 8  bhs-2-6k.qc.ca (198.27.73.18)  62.708 ms * *
 9  XXX (XXX)  68.405 ms  70.351 ms  72.048 ms
 
From OVH:
 1  GGG (GGG)  0.560 ms * *
 2  bhs-g2-6k.qc.ca (198.27.73.19)  10.952 ms * *
 3  mtl-2-6k.qc.ca (198.27.73.6)  1.561 ms * *
 4  198.27.73.178 (198.27.73.178)  17.574 ms * *
 5  10gigabitethernet4-1.core1.chi1.he.NET (206.223.119.37)  17.784 ms  30.211 ms  17.884 ms
 6  10gigabitethernet3-3.core1.tor1.he.net (184.105.213.149)  28.110 ms  21.282 ms  25.297 ms
 7  10gigabitethernet1-1.core1.ymq1.he.net (184.105.222.94)  35.053 ms  28.276 ms  28.011 ms
 8  209.51.161.210 (209.51.161.210)  28.002 ms 209.51.163.50 (209.51.163.50)  27.920 ms 209.51.161.210 (209.51.161.210)  25.428 ms
 9  heracles.enter-net.com (ZZZ)  25.698 ms  25.359 ms  25.396 ms
10  YYY (YYY)  60.870 ms  62.803 ms  64.620 ms
 

martyb1
join:2013-05-18
Wemindji, QC

martyb1 to DSL_Ricer

Member

to DSL_Ricer
negative, original QIX allowed for private peerings to be made between members, the only restriction was that you could not offer transit service on it. As far as I know that same restriction still exists now. Traffic from local ASs were allowed to be exchanged over QIX, whether you used their route server or had a private session.

I never saw OVH at QIX when I was involved with someone who was there, and the membership on the RISQ page does not mention them.

jmck
formerly 'shaded'
join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON

jmck to Guspaz

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OVH in Montreal just added some new servers and really nice/cheap 200Mbit options for $79:

»www.ovh.com/ca/en/dedica ··· servers/

SP 1 Intel E3-1245v2 4 / 8 3.4 GHz 32 GB 2x 2TB SATA3 $79.

pretty good value on the i3 and i5 on 100Mbit for $39 and $49 too.

creed3020
Premium Member
join:2006-04-26
Kitchener, ON

creed3020

Premium Member

Yeah not a bad deal at all. Tag on a bit more to price for Windows and you're good to go.

Do they allow you to install your own Windows Server OS if you have one?
Cyborg994
join:2005-04-18
Montreal, QC

Cyborg994 to jmck

Member

to jmck
Wow, this actually beats their old pricing already! 750 mbit/s for 250$/month.

Dammit I got an MG server a fe weeks ago, I will try to get them to upgrade the badnwith

Nitra
join:2011-09-15
Montreal

Nitra to creed3020

Member

to creed3020
said by creed3020:

Yeah not a bad deal at all. Tag on a bit more to price for Windows and you're good to go.

Do they allow you to install your own Windows Server OS if you have one?

Yes, if you have your own keys.

Select Linux as the OS of choice, once it's deployed, you can enter your license and install Windows.

ohmer
join:2003-08-06
Quebec, QC

ohmer to jmck

Member

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The same server is at 39.99 euro (55 $) in europe (
»www.ovh.com/fr/serveurs_ ··· i-sp.xml)... They say their cost are highter in Canada... I think this is bullshit just because of the low hydro cost here compared to France. The real reason is they don't have real competitors in North America like they have in Europe. They even have atom server for 2.99 euro!

Hm
@videotron.ca

Hm

Anon

said by ohmer:

The same server is at 39.99 euro (55 $) in europe (
»www.ovh.com/fr/serveurs_ ··· i-sp.xml)... They say their cost are highter in Canada... I think this is bullshit just because of the low hydro cost here compared to France. The real reason is they don't have real competitors in North America like they have in Europe. They even have atom server for 2.99 euro!

Didn't someone mention here that Quebeckers can get the Fr pricing? Seem to recall someone mentioning this from around the beginning of this thread. Or maybe it was another topic on OVH? Do they still do this?
Cyborg994
join:2005-04-18
Montreal, QC

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Nice of OVH, they upgraded my bandwith on my HG server for free, without me asking. 1.5 gb/s is niiice!

ohmer
join:2003-08-06
Quebec, QC

ohmer to Hm

Member

to Hm
said by Hm :

said by ohmer:

The same server is at 39.99 euro (55 $) in europe (
»www.ovh.com/fr/serveurs_ ··· i-sp.xml)... They say their cost are highter in Canada... I think this is bullshit just because of the low hydro cost here compared to France. The real reason is they don't have real competitors in North America like they have in Europe. They even have atom server for 2.99 euro!

Didn't someone mention here that Quebeckers can get the Fr pricing? Seem to recall someone mentioning this from around the beginning of this thread. Or maybe it was another topic on OVH? Do they still do this?

It was true until recently. I can get a server hosted in France for cheap (except their Kimsufi because they restrict it to EU residents), but if I (or any Europeans) want to host their server at BHS, they have inflated price.

jmck
formerly 'shaded'
join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON

jmck

Member

different areas around the world have different costs, i'm not sure if it's really "inflated". it's still dirt cheap prices for both locations.

ohmer
join:2003-08-06
Quebec, QC

ohmer

Member

They had the same prices before their "server reload".

I think the major cost in running a data center is electricity cost. It's well known that Hydro in Québec cost less than in France. Sure, their is other costs, but i'm sure this doesn't explain a 30% price increase.

Really, the reason is theirs competitors like iweb never decreased their prices since OVH is in Canada. They are still cheaper than theirs competitors even with this price increase.

subs
@ecatel.net

subs

Anon

said by ohmer:

Really, the reason is theirs competitors like iweb never decreased their prices since OVH is in Canada. They are still cheaper than theirs competitors even with this price increase.

This. Electricity is cheaper, corporate tax is less, cooling costs are less in Canada. The only thing that could be more expensive is IP transit but overall it should be cheaper to run the dc here. My guess is they're using the higher prices to subsidize the major price drops in the EU where they have competition. It must be OHV's reputation if iWeb, Netelligent, gogax, etc have been able to keep their prices more or less the same.

jmck
formerly 'shaded'
join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON

jmck

Member

apparently they're upgrading bandwidth on existing plans to match new plans. so if you had an SP1 or SP2 server that previously had 100Mbit, it will soon have 200Mbit.

Nitra
join:2011-09-15
Montreal

Nitra

Member

They are, I can confirm that my SP1 was upgraded last weekend.
analog andy
join:2005-01-03
Surrey, BC

analog andy to jmck

Member

to jmck
said by jmck:

apparently they're upgrading bandwidth on existing plans to match new plans. so if you had an SP1 or SP2 server that previously had 100Mbit, it will soon have 200Mbit.

This must be because I got this email from Hetzner where I have my game server.

Dear client,

In addition to the excellent price/performance ratio of our products,
we place particular emphasis on first-class infrastructure.

We are pleased to inform you that with the introduction of the free
1 Gbit/s uplink for the new dedicated root server models, we shall be
gradually making the 200 Mbit/s guaranteed bandwidth available for all
dedicated root server clients.

So that you too will be able to profit from the increased bandwidth for
your existing server, we shall be changing numerous switches over
the coming weeks and months and activating 1 Gbit/s uplinks for all.

We are therefore planning to change the switch for the following servers
in the night from 12. September 2013 23.00 hours (CEST) to
13. September 2013 05.00 hours (CEST) accordingly:


Guspaz
Guspaz
MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC

Guspaz

MVM

Transit costs are vastly different in Europe, where internet exchanges and free peering are enormously more popular...

Besides, compare these prices between iWeb and OVH Canada:

Cheapest server:
iWeb: $89
OVH: $39

Cheapest unmetered:
iWeb (100Mbps): $149
OVH (200 Mbps): $79

If you try to match hardware specs, iWeb comes out to something like 3x the price...

OVH undercuts everybody else in the market by a factor of two or three, and still people complain it's too expensive?
Cyborg994
join:2005-04-18
Montreal, QC

Cyborg994

Member

When I canceled some servers from iWeb, after moving what they were doing on a vmware box at OVH, they offered me a discount if I stayed, but they could not match either the specs or the price, or even get close.

pstewart
Premium Member
join:2005-10-12
Peterborough, ON

pstewart to Guspaz

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to Guspaz
said by Guspaz:

Transit costs are vastly different in Europe, where internet exchanges and free peering are enormously more popular...

Transit pricing in metro areas of Canada is pretty much inline anymore. There isn't a major difference like there once was. Peering has never been "free" in Europe - DE-CIX, AMS-IX, LINX etc still cost a fairly hefty amount for 10G ports. Private peering is the most common arrangement still as only x-connects come into play instead of x-connects and exchange port fees - no different than at Canadian locations. One major difference though is the sheer number of large exchange points and the fiber options in metro markets.