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Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON
kudos:19
reply to TSI Andre

Re: Teksavvy - What the hell has happened to you guys?

said by TSI Andre:

That means that I am willing to provide you a full refund!

A nice little customer friendly change from how things used to be then. Personally, I think asking for a second chance on installs wasn't really asking for very much, but whatever..

Anyway, to be a bit pedantic about it..
Question: "Teksavvy - What the hell happened to you guys?"
Answer: "We got better."

--
electronicsguru.ca

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to TSI Andre

said by TSI Andre:

I should have send, we can't not follow the process. We can still fight it at a higher level but until it changes we can just do things outside of process.

I know that TSI is stuck between a rock & a hard place on this, but so is every other indie - and I'm not saying that other indies aren't handling things better.

This kind of Bellshit is what CNOC ought to be busting heads over.

Or maybe you just go to Bell and tell them, "Unless you give us X,Y, Z in terms of service and/or realtime interfaces, we're going to transfer all our DSL customers to cable." And then you do the same to the cable companies and threaten to move everyone to Bell.

A missed install is a missed install, and if you lose money/customers as a result, then the incumbent needs to compensate you.
Expand your moderator at work


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
reply to Anon

Re: Teksavvy - What the hell has happened to you guys?

That's Bell's target audience.



Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to Teddy Boom

said by Teddy Boom:

said by TSI Andre:

That means that I am willing to provide you a full refund!

A nice little customer friendly change from how things used to be then. Personally, I think asking for a second chance on installs wasn't really asking for very much, but whatever..

Anyway, to be a bit pedantic about it..
Question: "Teksavvy - What the hell happened to you guys?"
Answer: "We got better."

Not to add fuel to the fire but you're really playing down the seriousness of some (not all as many use it as an excuse) those who stay home and DO loose money (a days work, a vacation day, a personal day of which their limited).

Some like my wife can take from a personal, vacation or lieu day without loss of pay since she's salaried. So many in and around the world cannot. So sometimes it's not about second chances, it's sometimes about the security of getting it done the first time without any more risk to the household income or job.

As much as TSI is between a rock and a hard place, how Andre said they need to "respect" bells process. I call BS simply because this isn't something you should roll over with, where is the fighting teksavvy we once seen? There was a time TSI would have put their gloves on and fought this tooth and nail. I respect Marc, but those days were with Rocky (long gone).

Customers of all people shouldn't be the only ones feeling this burden. It's a burden because ANYONE who is in this position (minus his language) WILL lose money. Teksavvy doesn't, customers do. Customers bare the bunt of all this trouble, no one else.


scorpido
Premium
join:2009-11-02
New Hamburg, ON
kudos:1

2 recommendations

reply to LondonOntGuy

I am going to be very blunt here. You have to take a day off work to be home between 9-5 because a Bell tech might need access. Customer stays home all day and bell never shows. Customer is pissed. Calls TSI and is told have to wait till midnight. Midnight comes and goes customer calls back in to find out order was pushed back and needs to be rebooked for another day and customer needs to be home from 9-5. Maybe bell will show maybe they won't. Know what this is called? Its Called bullshit. Customer now looses 2 days at work. Again whoever thought of this system should be linched. I wouldn't give a second chance either to the provider. How's many days off work does it take to get a phone line installed? Answer: who know. But I'm sure the chances of getting fired for being absent are better wagers.

Expand your moderator at work


Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON
kudos:19
reply to Tx

Re: Teksavvy - What the hell has happened to you guys?

said by Tx:

said by Teddy Boom:

Personally, I think asking for a second chance on installs wasn't really asking for very much, but whatever..

you're really playing down the seriousness of some (not all as many use it as an excuse) those who stay home and DO loose money (a days work, a vacation day, a personal day of which their limited).

Yes, I think you are right, it is asking for quite a bit. Still reasonable under extenuating circumstances, but not to be trivialized.

The whole question of Teksavvy fighting... 2 years ago Bell had voluntary functional separation. Those days are gone. Respect was probably a bad choice of words though
--
electronicsguru.ca

Bhruic

join:2002-11-27
Toronto, ON
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to MaynardKrebs

said by MaynardKrebs:

Or maybe you just go to Bell and tell them, "Unless you give us X,Y, Z in terms of service and/or realtime interfaces, we're going to transfer all our DSL customers to cable." And then you do the same to the cable companies and threaten to move everyone to Bell.

A missed install is a missed install, and if you lose money/customers as a result, then the incumbent needs to compensate you.

Dear god, don't do that. Bell will simply laugh, say "go ahead", and watch as you either don't follow through - or even worse, try to, and watch all the customers bail for other ISPs.

You only give ultimatums when you can afford to follow through on them. And Bell/Rogers both know you can't. So don't try.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

It was hyperbole.

Butt the indies have to take SOME action to not continually get screwed this way.

One happy customer tells about 10 other people about their experience.
One unhappy customer tells about 25 other people.

Here's some other info about customer satisfaction »www.psncorp.com/customer-focus/d···business



Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed

said by MaynardKrebs:

It was hyperbole.

Butt the indies have to take SOME action to not continually get screwed this way.

One happy customer tells about 10 other people about their experience.
One unhappy customer tells about 25 other people.

Here's some other info about customer satisfaction »www.psncorp.com/customer-focus/d···business

You're reaching big time... one happy customer tells 1-2 people if lucky (average)... Anger boils for a long time, and ends up in conversations with x, y, z then x, y, z tell a, b, c and it continues (Oh you should hear about what happened to a friend how much money he lost, or lost his job or got in trouble with the boss.

A happy customer is happy, they don't tend to really talk about it since it's a satisfaction and these days several don't want to rock the boat. May have been good for me, but do i really want to have my friends or family yelling at me if it goes bad for them.

It's messed up.

Does Bell have too much power? Absolutely. Should Teksavvy roll over? No, but as of late it's what i've seen. In this country you need to fight for your rights. Consumers don't have much of a voice, the illusion that we do is there, but we really don't.

kennyluo

join:2012-11-22
Scarborough, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to LondonOntGuy

Teksavvy, you are losing customer because of all these setup issues. I know you have to rely on Bell/Rogers to do the job, but hell, you are the one who is selling the product to the customer, gotta act up, not like this "I know we are at fault but there is nothing I can do" attitude.

My case was worse, I had 4 installation attempts before I had enough and call it quit. The teksavvy reps were pleasant but clueless, no communications between the setup techs whatsoever. Sigh...



mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5

said by kennyluo:

Teksavvy, you are losing customer because of all these setup issues.

Actually no, in at least the last 3 years, they have only gained more customers. And as mentioned several times now, Bell's dispatch procedure has been in place during that time and this is not first case. A lot of people only see two choices, the incumbent or a wholsaler like TekSavvy, and TekSavvy generally wins since you also get the same issues with Bell themselves. Lesser of two evils.


nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON
reply to LondonOntGuy

TSI had built up a lot of loyalty through a "Customer Advocacy" model in the past...doing what was best for the customer. It worked great as we all recall. In this instance, even if it meant perhaps in this case eating a $25 install charge or perhaps suggesting to the OP that "Maybe he should go with Eastlink" as they may be better suited to the OP's needs in regards to service availability.

Instead of brushing off the customer, EMPOWER your reps TSI....I think this is the #1 thing that has been lost in the transition. It seems as though TSI reps don't have the power to resolve issues and make the customer happy. It seems as though roadblocks are thrown up.

It seems as though TSI was willing to create a lot of negative PR just for the sake of "saving" $25. I'm sure the conversation alone between the OP and TSI cost TSI more than $25 in this instance.

If TSI couldn't come through on the installation, do what you can, but ultimately, if you can't serve the customer, sever ties on good terms, because you create goodwill. You may not get the short term sale, but in the long term the OP goes like this....

"Well, I tried to hook up with TSI...the install got mangled by Bell, it is what it is, I got my money back from TSI, it was an overall ok experience".

Random fact: In the customer service industry, especially telecom, customers get frustrated, with hold times, wait times, inexperienced reps...frustration leads to anger, which is what you're seeing with the OP.

The question is, not to get defensive at the OP and their words, and know that the OP isn't yelling at any of you or anyone at TSI personally, the OP is just frustrated and angry with the situation at hand.

However, I will just restate that I believe there's no empowerment by TSI reps at the 1st level to be able to advocate on behalf of their customer....I'm not sure if this is something that can be changed, but rather than "morphing" into Bell, that even though TSI is "larger" they can still empower their agents to provide the credits to the customer, so that TSI Andre doesn't have to step in as often as he seems to do, which he does a fantastic job of stepping in, but shouldn't have to be stepping into these direct situations as Agent X's Supervisor should be the one stepping in to handle these requests.


Bhruic

join:2002-11-27
Toronto, ON
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to mlerner

said by mlerner:

Actually no, in at least the last 3 years, they have only gained more customers. And as mentioned several times now, Bell's dispatch procedure has been in place during that time and this is not first case. A lot of people only see two choices, the incumbent or a wholsaler like TekSavvy, and TekSavvy generally wins since you also get the same issues with Bell themselves. Lesser of two evils.

You took that too literally. I don't think he meant they are losing customers overall, just that they are losing some customers because of such issues.

I can't say specifically they are, although it seems likely, but I can definitely vouch for the fact they are missing out on potential customers. There are at least 3 people that look to me for computer advice that I could have advised sign up with Teksavvy, but haven't. And that's because I don't want them to run into situations like this one. I know they are at the mercy of Bell on this front, but as long as that's the case, I can't recommend them to people.


Upsidedown

@utoronto.ca
reply to bt

said by bt:

said by BrianON:

I have a hard time believing a legitimate customer swears and rants like this over one missed install date and not getting a $25 refund.

I sure don't.

Its not just $25. Its taking a day off of work, staying home for a no show and most likely having to take another day off to get service. If you add that up, its 1-2 missed days of work and a $25 fee, at that point, at least for some people, is about recuperating their losses and that $25 is prime target.


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed

said by Upsidedown :

said by bt:

said by BrianON:

I have a hard time believing a legitimate customer swears and rants like this over one missed install date and not getting a $25 refund.

I sure don't.

Its not just $25. Its taking a day off of work, staying home for a no show and most likely having to take another day off to get service. If you add that up, its 1-2 missed days of work and a $25 fee, at that point, at least for some people, is about recuperating their losses and that $25 is prime target.

one other post said 4 days (though that's his word). That's a lot of time off work if you don't get paid for it or a lot of lost vacation days.

That $25 fee or any install fee will always have a red target on it until an install is completed on time and properly. Not just Teksavvy in this example, any third party ISP. If you get in to the business of leasing the lines off a big bad ISP such as Bell/Rogers etc, you should be prepared to either fight for your rights as an ISP to better service your customers or don't get in business at all.

Every business should have an ability to take a loss. Business isn't purely profit. Not saying Teksavvy always gets profit but if a customer decides to cancel, telling them sorry it's been spent is no excuse. You win some, you loose some. (for anyone who will argue what i said, don't give me the "if they refunded everybody" excuse. There isn't enough bad installs to bankrupt them. Takes from your profits sure, but that is the cost of doing business)

Point is, if Teksavvy as a business wasn't a lucrative business, it wouldn't be expanding.

scorpido
Premium
join:2009-11-02
New Hamburg, ON
kudos:1
reply to mlerner

said by mlerner:

said by kennyluo:

Teksavvy, you are losing customer because of all these setup issues.

Actually no, in at least the last 3 years, they have only gained more customers. And as mentioned several times now, Bell's dispatch procedure has been in place during that time and this is not first case. A lot of people only see two choices, the incumbent or a wholesaler like TekSavvy, and TekSavvy generally wins since you also get the same issues with Bell themselves. Lesser of two evils.

Yeah they may still be getting customer but because of the possible contract no shows and other screw up's on both TSI and the company whom the services are being bought from due to bad crappy ordering software, awful followup, csr's not having access to the information they should have so on and so forth. In fact I know for a fact that when I used to be a re-seller for TSI I used to call Bell directly to get updates on the installer. Update's TSI won't have for hours. Due to this it might be 5 outta 10 customers that decide to go with TSI compared to 8 out of 10 because of the possible incredible hassle involved with taking time off and maybe even loosing services altogether. At the end of the day It is like this. This problem list goes like this. Software, Contractors, CRS's Customer. If the software sucks (which it does) and the Contractor doesn't give a rats-ass, and the CSR's have no clue because of the the first 2 then the customer get's pissed and you have a screw this amateur operation attitude from the customer who calls the indie provider and goes off just to be told it's Bell's fault..lol. The indie providers need to take a stand and get this fixed.

scorpido
Premium
join:2009-11-02
New Hamburg, ON
kudos:1
reply to LondonOntGuy

I am also sure these two gems
***MontrealFido
***lawrence171
will pipe up soon enough saying that were hurting business and that were self-fish (hence spelling..lol) as per another thread where this kinda topic came up. Think might be paid employees of the Tek? Just maybe.. lol Sorry little off topic. Back to
OP



mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
reply to scorpido

Should TekSavvy get it fixed, yes but as of right now TekSavvy has no leverage against Bell and Bell is not forced to provide a better level of service.


CYYZ

join:2012-11-08

1 recommendation

reply to LondonOntGuy

This is hardly a surprise.

When things go well Teksavvy is a "One of the largest independent ISP's in Canada" and all praise is due to them.

When things go badly it's "Hey we're just a reseller. It's Bell's/Rogers' fault".

It seems to me Teksavvy is now marketing to the general public instead of just the enthusiasts. The same general public that likely has no idea TSI's services are linked to Bell and Rogers. Why don't you put that information up on your website then and let everyone know the problems that go along with the aforementioned? Can't do that because it would drive away business?

Then don't be surprised customers get upset. It's true some things are beyond TSI's control but at the end of the day these are YOUR customers. NOT Bell's customers. Not Rogers customers. YOUR customers. NOBODY forced you into this business and you knew full well of the problems before you set up shop. So suck it up and don't act all surprised when customers get angry at you.

Never have I seen such a company that speaks from both sides of their mouth as TSI. Never have I seen such a company that wants to play ball but is unwilling to get their clothes dirty.


scorpido
Premium
join:2009-11-02
New Hamburg, ON
kudos:1

said by CYYZ:

This is hardly a surprise.

When things go well Teksavvy is a "One of the largest independent ISP's in Canada" and all praise is due to them.

When things go badly it's "Hey we're just a reseller. It's Bell's/Rogers' fault".

It seems to me Teksavvy is now marketing to the general public instead of just the enthusiasts. The same general public that likely has no idea TSI's services are linked to Bell and Rogers. Why don't you put that information up on your website then and let everyone know the problems that go along with the aforementioned? Can't do that because it would drive away business?

Then don't be surprised customers get upset. It's true some things are beyond TSI's control but at the end of the day these are YOUR customers. NOT Bell's customers. Not Rogers customers. YOUR customers. NOBODY forced you into this business and you knew full well of the problems before you set up shop. So suck it up and don't act all surprised when customers get angry at you.

Never have I seen such a company that speaks from both sides of their mouth as TSI. Never have I seen such a company that wants to play ball but is unwilling to get their clothes dirty.

+1


MarkAW
Barry White
Premium
join:2001-08-27
Canada
kudos:16
reply to Teddy Boom

said by Teddy Boom:

said by TSI Andre:

That means that I am willing to provide you a full refund!

A nice little customer friendly change from how things used to be then. Personally, I think asking for a second chance on installs wasn't really asking for very much, but whatever..

Anyway, to be a bit pedantic about it..
Question: "Teksavvy - What the hell happened to you guys?"
Answer: "We got bigger."

There fix it for you.
--
We never really grow up, we only learn how to act in public.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. (Hmm)
I have enemies? Good. That means I've stood up for something, sometime in my life.


Upsidedown

@utoronto.ca
reply to scorpido

+1
In all seriousness, no customer wants to hear "its Roger/Bell's fault". When TSI is getting paid, TSI is the provider, not the incumbent. You tell the general public that their install went bad because of Rogers/Bell, first thing you're gonna hear is... wtf? Im not with Rogers/Bell.


LondonOntGuy

join:2004-05-12
London, ON
reply to LondonOntGuy

I wish I could say I had to book a day off work, but I didn't. - It's kind of impossible to get a job without a phone. Cell phones? Forget it. They're just too damn expensive. But I guess if I were working full time, a cell probably would be better. I'd walk into Best Buy at 6pm, and walk out 20 minutes later with a phone.

I really hate to end things on a sour note with Teksavvy after having been with them for nearly 3 years,(I jumped ship when Execulink brought in their own version of UBB) but that's what it looks like is going to happen.


kovy

join:2009-03-26
kudos:8
reply to scorpido

said by scorpido:

said by mlerner:

said by kennyluo:

Teksavvy, you are losing customer because of all these setup issues.

Actually no, in at least the last 3 years, they have only gained more customers. And as mentioned several times now, Bell's dispatch procedure has been in place during that time and this is not first case. A lot of people only see two choices, the incumbent or a wholesaler like TekSavvy, and TekSavvy generally wins since you also get the same issues with Bell themselves. Lesser of two evils.

Yeah they may still be getting customer but because of the possible contract no shows and other screw up's on both TSI and the company whom the services are being bought from due to bad crappy ordering software, awful followup, csr's not having access to the information they should have so on and so forth. In fact I know for a fact that when I used to be a re-seller for TSI I used to call Bell directly to get updates on the installer. Update's TSI won't have for hours. Due to this it might be 5 outta 10 customers that decide to go with TSI compared to 8 out of 10 because of the possible incredible hassle involved with taking time off and maybe even loosing services altogether. At the end of the day It is like this. This problem list goes like this. Software, Contractors, CRS's Customer. If the software sucks (which it does) and the Contractor doesn't give a rats-ass, and the CSR's have no clue because of the the first 2 then the customer get's pissed and you have a screw this amateur operation attitude from the customer who calls the indie provider and goes off just to be told it's Bell's fault..lol. The indie providers need to take a stand and get this fixed.

I wonder how teksavvy got a rating of 86% ....

Do you know all the stats or did you just made up numbers?

Even for Bell this type of stuff happens to their own customers...


NytOwl

join:2012-09-27
canada
reply to Upsidedown

said by Upsidedown :

+1
In all seriousness, no customer wants to hear "its Roger/Bell's fault". When TSI is getting paid, TSI is the provider, not the incumbent. You tell the general public that their install went bad because of Rogers/Bell, first thing you're gonna hear is... wtf? Im not with Rogers/Bell.

For a few years I worked, myself, for Primus, who like TSI also resells Bell DSL.

I realize it's not something that an upset customer wants to hear, but what do you suggest they get told instead?

If TSI tells them that it's stuck in THEIR system (rather than Bell's) the already angry customer is simply going to insist that they auto-magically un-sitck the order and that they should be able to because it' "their" system. The reality is, it's not their system. It's Bell's. The reality is TSI has zero control over it and thus cannot simply snap their fingers and make everything on Bell's end auto-resolve.

I do understand the customer's frustration with the situation. I've been in a similar boat as a customer, myself (not with TSI).

However, as someone who used to be on the same side of the phone as TSI, I'm able to sympathize with the representatives who have to handle these difficult situations. It's unfortunate. It's unfair. But it is what it is!

True, if customers have DSL and/or POTS home phone via TekSavvy they are not a Bell customer. But take a wild guess as to who owns the physical lines and 90% of the infrastructure that the DSL/POTS goes through. Like it or not, all resellers are at the mercy of the incumbents whose physical lines they utilize to get the service to their customers.

For those who want no middle-man, they are free to subscribe to the services an incumbent if they so choose (and pay the premium price for it).

Want to save money? Go with a reseller. Don't be surprised, however, when you go through incumbent bureaucracy if a problem occurs. There's nothing the reseller can do about that. At all.