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scorpido
Premium
join:2009-11-02
New Hamburg, ON
kudos:1
reply to mlerner

Re: Teksavvy - What the hell has happened to you guys?

said by mlerner:

said by kennyluo:

Teksavvy, you are losing customer because of all these setup issues.

Actually no, in at least the last 3 years, they have only gained more customers. And as mentioned several times now, Bell's dispatch procedure has been in place during that time and this is not first case. A lot of people only see two choices, the incumbent or a wholesaler like TekSavvy, and TekSavvy generally wins since you also get the same issues with Bell themselves. Lesser of two evils.

Yeah they may still be getting customer but because of the possible contract no shows and other screw up's on both TSI and the company whom the services are being bought from due to bad crappy ordering software, awful followup, csr's not having access to the information they should have so on and so forth. In fact I know for a fact that when I used to be a re-seller for TSI I used to call Bell directly to get updates on the installer. Update's TSI won't have for hours. Due to this it might be 5 outta 10 customers that decide to go with TSI compared to 8 out of 10 because of the possible incredible hassle involved with taking time off and maybe even loosing services altogether. At the end of the day It is like this. This problem list goes like this. Software, Contractors, CRS's Customer. If the software sucks (which it does) and the Contractor doesn't give a rats-ass, and the CSR's have no clue because of the the first 2 then the customer get's pissed and you have a screw this amateur operation attitude from the customer who calls the indie provider and goes off just to be told it's Bell's fault..lol. The indie providers need to take a stand and get this fixed.

scorpido
Premium
join:2009-11-02
New Hamburg, ON
kudos:1
reply to LondonOntGuy

I am also sure these two gems
***MontrealFido
***lawrence171
will pipe up soon enough saying that were hurting business and that were self-fish (hence spelling..lol) as per another thread where this kinda topic came up. Think might be paid employees of the Tek? Just maybe.. lol Sorry little off topic. Back to
OP



mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
reply to scorpido

Should TekSavvy get it fixed, yes but as of right now TekSavvy has no leverage against Bell and Bell is not forced to provide a better level of service.


CYYZ

join:2012-11-08

1 recommendation

reply to LondonOntGuy

This is hardly a surprise.

When things go well Teksavvy is a "One of the largest independent ISP's in Canada" and all praise is due to them.

When things go badly it's "Hey we're just a reseller. It's Bell's/Rogers' fault".

It seems to me Teksavvy is now marketing to the general public instead of just the enthusiasts. The same general public that likely has no idea TSI's services are linked to Bell and Rogers. Why don't you put that information up on your website then and let everyone know the problems that go along with the aforementioned? Can't do that because it would drive away business?

Then don't be surprised customers get upset. It's true some things are beyond TSI's control but at the end of the day these are YOUR customers. NOT Bell's customers. Not Rogers customers. YOUR customers. NOBODY forced you into this business and you knew full well of the problems before you set up shop. So suck it up and don't act all surprised when customers get angry at you.

Never have I seen such a company that speaks from both sides of their mouth as TSI. Never have I seen such a company that wants to play ball but is unwilling to get their clothes dirty.


scorpido
Premium
join:2009-11-02
New Hamburg, ON
kudos:1

said by CYYZ:

This is hardly a surprise.

When things go well Teksavvy is a "One of the largest independent ISP's in Canada" and all praise is due to them.

When things go badly it's "Hey we're just a reseller. It's Bell's/Rogers' fault".

It seems to me Teksavvy is now marketing to the general public instead of just the enthusiasts. The same general public that likely has no idea TSI's services are linked to Bell and Rogers. Why don't you put that information up on your website then and let everyone know the problems that go along with the aforementioned? Can't do that because it would drive away business?

Then don't be surprised customers get upset. It's true some things are beyond TSI's control but at the end of the day these are YOUR customers. NOT Bell's customers. Not Rogers customers. YOUR customers. NOBODY forced you into this business and you knew full well of the problems before you set up shop. So suck it up and don't act all surprised when customers get angry at you.

Never have I seen such a company that speaks from both sides of their mouth as TSI. Never have I seen such a company that wants to play ball but is unwilling to get their clothes dirty.

+1


MarkAW
Barry White
Premium
join:2001-08-27
Canada
kudos:16
reply to Teddy Boom

said by Teddy Boom:

said by TSI Andre:

That means that I am willing to provide you a full refund!

A nice little customer friendly change from how things used to be then. Personally, I think asking for a second chance on installs wasn't really asking for very much, but whatever..

Anyway, to be a bit pedantic about it..
Question: "Teksavvy - What the hell happened to you guys?"
Answer: "We got bigger."

There fix it for you.
--
We never really grow up, we only learn how to act in public.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. (Hmm)
I have enemies? Good. That means I've stood up for something, sometime in my life.


Upsidedown

@utoronto.ca
reply to scorpido

+1
In all seriousness, no customer wants to hear "its Roger/Bell's fault". When TSI is getting paid, TSI is the provider, not the incumbent. You tell the general public that their install went bad because of Rogers/Bell, first thing you're gonna hear is... wtf? Im not with Rogers/Bell.


LondonOntGuy

join:2004-05-12
London, ON
reply to LondonOntGuy

I wish I could say I had to book a day off work, but I didn't. - It's kind of impossible to get a job without a phone. Cell phones? Forget it. They're just too damn expensive. But I guess if I were working full time, a cell probably would be better. I'd walk into Best Buy at 6pm, and walk out 20 minutes later with a phone.

I really hate to end things on a sour note with Teksavvy after having been with them for nearly 3 years,(I jumped ship when Execulink brought in their own version of UBB) but that's what it looks like is going to happen.


kovy

join:2009-03-26
kudos:8
reply to scorpido

said by scorpido:

said by mlerner:

said by kennyluo:

Teksavvy, you are losing customer because of all these setup issues.

Actually no, in at least the last 3 years, they have only gained more customers. And as mentioned several times now, Bell's dispatch procedure has been in place during that time and this is not first case. A lot of people only see two choices, the incumbent or a wholesaler like TekSavvy, and TekSavvy generally wins since you also get the same issues with Bell themselves. Lesser of two evils.

Yeah they may still be getting customer but because of the possible contract no shows and other screw up's on both TSI and the company whom the services are being bought from due to bad crappy ordering software, awful followup, csr's not having access to the information they should have so on and so forth. In fact I know for a fact that when I used to be a re-seller for TSI I used to call Bell directly to get updates on the installer. Update's TSI won't have for hours. Due to this it might be 5 outta 10 customers that decide to go with TSI compared to 8 out of 10 because of the possible incredible hassle involved with taking time off and maybe even loosing services altogether. At the end of the day It is like this. This problem list goes like this. Software, Contractors, CRS's Customer. If the software sucks (which it does) and the Contractor doesn't give a rats-ass, and the CSR's have no clue because of the the first 2 then the customer get's pissed and you have a screw this amateur operation attitude from the customer who calls the indie provider and goes off just to be told it's Bell's fault..lol. The indie providers need to take a stand and get this fixed.

I wonder how teksavvy got a rating of 86% ....

Do you know all the stats or did you just made up numbers?

Even for Bell this type of stuff happens to their own customers...


NytOwl

join:2012-09-27
canada
reply to Upsidedown

said by Upsidedown :

+1
In all seriousness, no customer wants to hear "its Roger/Bell's fault". When TSI is getting paid, TSI is the provider, not the incumbent. You tell the general public that their install went bad because of Rogers/Bell, first thing you're gonna hear is... wtf? Im not with Rogers/Bell.

For a few years I worked, myself, for Primus, who like TSI also resells Bell DSL.

I realize it's not something that an upset customer wants to hear, but what do you suggest they get told instead?

If TSI tells them that it's stuck in THEIR system (rather than Bell's) the already angry customer is simply going to insist that they auto-magically un-sitck the order and that they should be able to because it' "their" system. The reality is, it's not their system. It's Bell's. The reality is TSI has zero control over it and thus cannot simply snap their fingers and make everything on Bell's end auto-resolve.

I do understand the customer's frustration with the situation. I've been in a similar boat as a customer, myself (not with TSI).

However, as someone who used to be on the same side of the phone as TSI, I'm able to sympathize with the representatives who have to handle these difficult situations. It's unfortunate. It's unfair. But it is what it is!

True, if customers have DSL and/or POTS home phone via TekSavvy they are not a Bell customer. But take a wild guess as to who owns the physical lines and 90% of the infrastructure that the DSL/POTS goes through. Like it or not, all resellers are at the mercy of the incumbents whose physical lines they utilize to get the service to their customers.

For those who want no middle-man, they are free to subscribe to the services an incumbent if they so choose (and pay the premium price for it).

Want to save money? Go with a reseller. Don't be surprised, however, when you go through incumbent bureaucracy if a problem occurs. There's nothing the reseller can do about that. At all.

LondonOntGuy

join:2004-05-12
London, ON
reply to LondonOntGuy

I bet if I had ordered this install through Bell, they'd be over right away, with little to no BS involved. I guess they're taking cues from Rogers. - Screw over the third party ISP's so the customer will go them instead.


kovy

join:2009-03-26
kudos:8

said by LondonOntGuy:

I bet if I had ordered this install through Bell, they'd be over right away, with little to no BS involved. I guess they're taking cues from Rogers. - Screw over the third party ISP's so the customer will go them instead.

Yeah Bell is the perfect ISP... must be the reason why you chose Teksavvy in the first place.


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to kovy

said by kovy:

I wonder how teksavvy got a rating of 86% ....

That's what someone pointed out when they were at 91% 4-5 months ago. It is going down and DSLR doesn't fully represent all of their customer base. CanadianISP or whatever the site is has a laundry list of bad complaints.

My history with TSI was good, but that was pre-cable days....my wife loved dealing with them. Friendly, fast, responsive laughed things off as what the new reps do today, some ARE bad apples and really do leave a bad taste in customers mouths


TSI Pierre
Baby, Wanna see what 300Gigs looks like?
Premium
join:2011-09-23
Chatham, ON
reply to LondonOntGuy

Thanks for all of the comments/suggestions/opinions.

I agree that at times we at TekSavvy seem to have our hands tied with the incumbents but I can tell you that what you don't see in the background is how much Marc and the TekSavvy employees are fighting to make it right. I personally see Marc get upset when he sees things go wrong and the fact that he is active on this forum and actively listens to you should say something about what he believes in.

Yes we grew, yes we take 1M plus calls a year, yes we will make some mistakes and yes we WILL try and fix it and yes we will definitely look at refining our own internal processes and continue to challenge the incumbents to refine theirs.

LondonOntGuy - I'm sorry we missed this one. We get upset when these things happen...trust me!
--
TSI Pierre - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.
Chief Operating Officer



TSILiz
Premium
join:2012-08-20
kudos:6
reply to LondonOntGuy

said by TSI Pierre:

Thanks for all of the comments/suggestions/opinions.

I agree that at times we at TekSavvy seem to have our hands tied with the incumbents but I can tell you that what you don't see in the background is how much Marc and the TekSavvy employees are fighting to make it right. I personally see Marc get upset when he sees things go wrong and the fact that he is active on this forum and actively listens to you should say something about what he believes in.

Yes we grew, yes we take 1M plus calls a year, yes we will make some mistakes and yes we WILL try and fix it and yes we will definitely look at refining our own internal processes and continue to challenge the incumbents to refine theirs.

LondonOntGuy - I'm sorry we missed this one. We get upset when these things happen...trust me!

+1

kovy

join:2009-03-26
kudos:8
reply to Tx

said by Tx:

said by kovy:

I wonder how teksavvy got a rating of 86% ....

That's what someone pointed out when they were at 91% 4-5 months ago. It is going down and DSLR doesn't fully represent all of their customer base. CanadianISP or whatever the site is has a laundry list of bad complaints.

My history with TSI was good, but that was pre-cable days....my wife loved dealing with them. Friendly, fast, responsive laughed things off as what the new reps do today, some ARE bad apples and really do leave a bad taste in customers mouths

Well it's not like you'll see people who will make a post just because they got good service... you're more likely to get people complaining. Maybe you'd rather look at Bell or Acanad ratings...


Upsidedown

@utoronto.ca
reply to NytOwl

said by NytOwl:

Want to save money? Go with a reseller. Don't be surprised, however, when you go through incumbent bureaucracy if a problem occurs. There's nothing the reseller can do about that. At all.

That is an evil of your own making. It is this way because Canadians allow it, which is something that I'll never understand.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

1 recommendation

reply to TSI Pierre

said by TSI Pierre:

I personally see Marc get upset when he sees things go wrong .....

Make a video of Marc when he's cussing out Bell/Rogers, et. al., kicking boxes and ranting ...... and post it to Youtube

I'll bring popcorn.


TSI Pierre
Baby, Wanna see what 300Gigs looks like?
Premium
join:2011-09-23
Chatham, ON

I should


epsilon3

join:2008-03-29
canada
reply to CYYZ

said by CYYZ:

NOBODY forced you into this business and you knew full well of the problems before you set up shop. So suck it up and don't act all surprised when customers get angry at you.

Nobody forced the customers to be stupid!
Nobody forced them to move to the resellers!

So, take it easy with your recommendations.

kovy

join:2009-03-26
kudos:8
reply to TSI Pierre

said by TSI Pierre:

I should

I don't think that's a good idea... but yeah...


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to kovy

said by kovy:

said by Tx:

said by kovy:

I wonder how teksavvy got a rating of 86% ....

That's what someone pointed out when they were at 91% 4-5 months ago. It is going down and DSLR doesn't fully represent all of their customer base. CanadianISP or whatever the site is has a laundry list of bad complaints.

My history with TSI was good, but that was pre-cable days....my wife loved dealing with them. Friendly, fast, responsive laughed things off as what the new reps do today, some ARE bad apples and really do leave a bad taste in customers mouths

Well it's not like you'll see people who will make a post just because they got good service... you're more likely to get people complaining. Maybe you'd rather look at Bell or Acanad ratings...

But we're not talking about Bell. That's comparing apples and oranges, and you know it. how many million customers vs teksavvy's....... #?

Review the history. 5 years ago, a negative teksavvy review was rare. As they grow, so does the complaints, so you cannot keep comparing a transport to a smart car, two different entities.

Teksavvy used to have a 96% rating before i signed up with DSLR i believe it was, near perfect. Years later we're reaching the mid 80's.

Your point about making a post about good service then you argue rating. 86% rating as you said is what speaks for itself is it not? SO really people do post, just not discussion type posts. What is there to discuss?

Happy customer: My install went great, thanks TSI!
TSI: Glad to hear, let us know if you have any questions
community: Uh.....great!

EOS.

People buy the new 80" Sharp LCD for i forget how much now and it works... what are they going to do? Come on forums and praise sharp? No, their just happy it works because they paid for it.

If they paid for it and it doesn't work... anger takes over and it's now a battle to inform other consumers about their experience, thus reviews/topics to discuss.

So we really cannot compare Bell's rating of whom have been in business for how long? With Teksavvy, you have to honestly admit, that is not a fair comparison because even if Teksavvy had the same rating, it's still not a fair comparison, they are still worlds apart.

kovy

join:2009-03-26
kudos:8

said by Tx:

But we're not talking about Bell. That's comparing apples and oranges, and you know it. how many million customers vs teksavvy's....... #?

Review the history. 5 years ago, a negative teksavvy review was rare. As they grow, so does the complaints, so you cannot keep comparing a transport to a smart car, two different entities.

Teksavvy used to have a 96% rating before i signed up with DSLR i believe it was, near perfect. Years later we're reaching the mid 80's.

Your point about making a post about good service then you argue rating. 86% rating as you said is what speaks for itself is it not? SO really people do post, just not discussion type posts. What is there to discuss?

Happy customer: My install went great, thanks TSI!
TSI: Glad to hear, let us know if you have any questions
community: Uh.....great!

EOS.

People buy the new 80" Sharp LCD for i forget how much now and it works... what are they going to do? Come on forums and praise sharp? No, their just happy it works because they paid for it.

If they paid for it and it doesn't work... anger takes over and it's now a battle to inform other consumers about their experience, thus reviews/topics to discuss.

So we really cannot compare Bell's rating of whom have been in business for how long? With Teksavvy, you have to honestly admit, that is not a fair comparison because even if Teksavvy had the same rating, it's still not a fair comparison, they are still worlds apart.

Why can't we compare with Bell... it's like people believe this sort of stuff doesn't happen to Bell customer... well it does. If incumbents have their own problem with their own customer, what the heck do you think it's going to happen to Teksavvy and others?

Also, I named Acanac.

Is there anyone else that has a higher rating then Teksavvy ?

So their rating dropped, it's still respectable... is it not?

Things could be better... but heck, things could always be better.

Also, it's discussion post that gets attention... anyone knows this.


CYYZ

join:2012-11-08
reply to epsilon3

said by epsilon3:

said by CYYZ:

NOBODY forced you into this business and you knew full well of the problems before you set up shop. So suck it up and don't act all surprised when customers get angry at you.

Nobody forced the customers to be stupid!
Nobody forced them to move to the resellers!

So, take it easy with your recommendations.

Well, to some people the whole internet is not their life. Just because you are so interested in the whole internet service provider industry, doesn't mean everyone else is. To some people internet service is no different than the electric or water company and they treat it as such.


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to epsilon3

said by epsilon3:

said by CYYZ:

NOBODY forced you into this business and you knew full well of the problems before you set up shop. So suck it up and don't act all surprised when customers get angry at you.

Nobody forced the customers to be stupid!
Nobody forced them to move to the resellers!

So, take it easy with your recommendations.

I think you need to understand the meaning of reseller... TSI isn't a reseller


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to kovy

said by kovy:

said by Tx:

But we're not talking about Bell. That's comparing apples and oranges, and you know it. how many million customers vs teksavvy's....... #?

Review the history. 5 years ago, a negative teksavvy review was rare. As they grow, so does the complaints, so you cannot keep comparing a transport to a smart car, two different entities.

Teksavvy used to have a 96% rating before i signed up with DSLR i believe it was, near perfect. Years later we're reaching the mid 80's.

Your point about making a post about good service then you argue rating. 86% rating as you said is what speaks for itself is it not? SO really people do post, just not discussion type posts. What is there to discuss?

Happy customer: My install went great, thanks TSI!
TSI: Glad to hear, let us know if you have any questions
community: Uh.....great!

EOS.

People buy the new 80" Sharp LCD for i forget how much now and it works... what are they going to do? Come on forums and praise sharp? No, their just happy it works because they paid for it.

If they paid for it and it doesn't work... anger takes over and it's now a battle to inform other consumers about their experience, thus reviews/topics to discuss.

So we really cannot compare Bell's rating of whom have been in business for how long? With Teksavvy, you have to honestly admit, that is not a fair comparison because even if Teksavvy had the same rating, it's still not a fair comparison, they are still worlds apart.

Why can't we compare with Bell... it's like people believe this sort of stuff doesn't happen to Bell customer... well it does. If incumbents have their own problem with their own customer, what the heck do you think it's going to happen to Teksavvy and others?

Also, I named Acanac.

Is there anyone else that has a higher rating then Teksavvy ?

So their rating dropped, it's still respectable... is it not?

Things could be better... but heck, things could always be better.

Also, it's discussion post that gets attention... anyone knows this.

I absolutely guarantee you, it's a rarity with for example a bell customer. You seem fixated on a fictional rating system. As far as i'm concerned, and i say this very seriously. DSLR != represent Teksavvy as a business.

Let's also not forget, even if Bell didn't show and a customer complaints... look first month of service is free. Things they can do to make a customer happy. Something Teksavvy has to brainstorm on how to do themselves without going broke. I say broke loosely because there aren't THAT many messed up installs to bankrupt them.

LondonOntGuy

join:2004-05-12
London, ON
reply to kovy

said by kovy:

Yeah Bell is the perfect ISP... must be the reason why you chose Teksavvy in the first place.

Point I was trying to make is that Bell probably saw me and thought "Ah, another TSI customer, he can rack off, I got other more important things to do." (like go on a coffee break). Meanwhile, the Bell customer gets service installed right at 8am.

kovy

join:2009-03-26
kudos:8
reply to Tx

said by Tx:

said by kovy:

said by Tx:

But we're not talking about Bell. That's comparing apples and oranges, and you know it. how many million customers vs teksavvy's....... #?

Review the history. 5 years ago, a negative teksavvy review was rare. As they grow, so does the complaints, so you cannot keep comparing a transport to a smart car, two different entities.

Teksavvy used to have a 96% rating before i signed up with DSLR i believe it was, near perfect. Years later we're reaching the mid 80's.

Your point about making a post about good service then you argue rating. 86% rating as you said is what speaks for itself is it not? SO really people do post, just not discussion type posts. What is there to discuss?

Happy customer: My install went great, thanks TSI!
TSI: Glad to hear, let us know if you have any questions
community: Uh.....great!

EOS.

People buy the new 80" Sharp LCD for i forget how much now and it works... what are they going to do? Come on forums and praise sharp? No, their just happy it works because they paid for it.

If they paid for it and it doesn't work... anger takes over and it's now a battle to inform other consumers about their experience, thus reviews/topics to discuss.

So we really cannot compare Bell's rating of whom have been in business for how long? With Teksavvy, you have to honestly admit, that is not a fair comparison because even if Teksavvy had the same rating, it's still not a fair comparison, they are still worlds apart.

Why can't we compare with Bell... it's like people believe this sort of stuff doesn't happen to Bell customer... well it does. If incumbents have their own problem with their own customer, what the heck do you think it's going to happen to Teksavvy and others?

Also, I named Acanac.

Is there anyone else that has a higher rating then Teksavvy ?

So their rating dropped, it's still respectable... is it not?

Things could be better... but heck, things could always be better.

Also, it's discussion post that gets attention... anyone knows this.

I absolutely guarantee you, it's a rarity with for example a bell customer. You seem fixated on a fictional rating system. As far as i'm concerned, and i say this very seriously. DSLR != represent Teksavvy as a business.

Let's also not forget, even if Bell didn't show and a customer complaints... look first month of service is free. Things they can do to make a customer happy. Something Teksavvy has to brainstorm on how to do themselves without going broke. I say broke loosely because there aren't THAT many messed up installs to bankrupt them.

While I'm fixated on ratings... you're fixated on complaining post. It's only normal to have more complaining post when your numbers of customer grows. Either it stays proportional and you here more about it (also add the cable side which Tek didn't have 5 years ago) or things are going to fast for Tek to handle but are still able to keep a good portion of customer happy.

Bell can maybe make deals for the customers, but at one point he will not be happy without service... There's multiple reason why not everyone is with Bell.


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:26
reply to LondonOntGuy

Hey LondonOntGuy,

I'm just reading through this thread. I know you're frustrated with it all.. I'm trying to look at all of this from an objective point of view to see what we could have done differently. I don't know that I've read every post and maybe you already explained it but can you tell me you're thoughts on what we could do differently? What we could have done to avoid this perhaps?
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


kovy

join:2009-03-26
kudos:8
reply to LondonOntGuy

said by LondonOntGuy:

said by kovy:

Yeah Bell is the perfect ISP... must be the reason why you chose Teksavvy in the first place.

Point I was trying to make is that Bell probably saw me and thought "Ah, another TSI customer, he can rack off, I got other more important things to do." (like go on a coffee break). Meanwhile, the Bell customer gets service installed right at 8am.

HA, yeah... right... Bell customer are always satisfied!