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SipSizzurp
Fo' Shizzle
Premium
join:2005-12-28
Houston, TX
kudos:4
reply to sholling

Re: WIN8 on new laptop=crap

said by sholling:

I wouldn't put up with that phone OS on a laptop either.

Yer in luck !! He is not stuck with the RT version on his laptop, nor would you be.

He has the desktop version.


sholling
Premium
join:2002-02-13
Hemet, CA
kudos:1

said by SipSizzurp:

said by sholling:

I wouldn't put up with that phone OS on a laptop either.

Yer in luck !! He is not stuck with the RT version on his laptop, nor would you be.

He has the desktop version.

Yes I know he has the laptop/desktop version of the phone OS. Hopefully MS comes to its senses and replaces the the metro interface with something useful.
--
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT--

SipSizzurp
Fo' Shizzle
Premium
join:2005-12-28
Houston, TX
kudos:4

2 edits
reply to Corehhi

said by Corehhi:

Ok I can work with that.

When I installed Classic Shell I un-checked the "IE 9" option. I like IE 10 the way it is and am not sure what the "IE 9" option would do. So many computers, so little time....

Edit -Lots of good YouTube videos on Classic Shell and W8. Here is one ;

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0L4Cte56tc
Expand your moderator at work

Shootist
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Decatur, GA
kudos:3
reply to Corehhi

Re: WIN8 on new laptop=crap

I totally agree with you. As for the others that say if you stop learning you end your existence and the like is just full of it. Computers are TOOLS. Like any TOOL you should not have to jump through a bunch of hoops to make it work for you. You should not have to Re-Learn how to use it. And lets throw the Car in here for good measure. What would happen if you bought a Car that when you turned the steering wheel to the left the car turned right. You'd take it back before or just after the accident.

Win 8 UI SUCKS!!!!!
It may be a very good OS under the hood but like a Car I don't sit under the hood.

One thing you can do is Install Win 7 on it. Windows 8 is the first MS OS that allows you to use the Win 8 license key to install an older version of Windows with it.
So that is an option.
--
Shooter Ready--Stand By BEEP ********



mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
Premium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON

said by Shootist:

I totally agree with you.

getta byte, getta byte, getta byte byte byte to the rhythm of the "cavalry charge" finale of Rossini's William Tell Overture

»youtu.be/c7O91GDWGPU

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to Shootist

I agree. I should not have to jump through hoops to use Win 8. Nor should I have to install Classic Shell which is a third party program..thus subject to causing all sorts of problems. The WIN 8 UI sucks. I can't even change the Windows default font from that impossible to read Segoe to Verdana except in the registry. I can't access Item list in Advanced Display either. Microsoft has violated ADA with Win 8. I could care less if Win 8 is the same on phones and other devices. I don't have a cell phone that accesses the internet and don't care about tablets either or laptops. I bought an expensive new DESKtop and I expected Microsoft to make Win 8 work properly on a desktop.

The problem with installing Win 7 is that the OEMs are giving everyone trying to downgrade a hard time. Folks are complaining at Dell forums. I am about to call Dell Small/Medium Business Employee Software Support Program for instructions on (1) how to do a clean install of Win 8. Dell has told me that Microsoft has forbidden the OEMs to supply Win 8 Reinstallation disks and I have to be walked through a "new way" to do a clean install. That sounds like hogwash to me. (2) I need instructions on how to exercise my downgrade rights. Dell forums are full of complaints that Dell is charging upwards of $100 for downgrade rights! That is crazy as my understanding of Microsoft's rules are that I am charged nothing for a Win 7 Pro disk and Win 8 Pro disk (assuming I have Win 8 Pro).

I had to stay up until 4AM my time in order to call Dell Sm/Med Business Employee Software Support Program as it is open only 8AM-5PM CST. It is now 8:04 AM in Round Rock, Texas. Wish me luck. This computer goes back to Dell if I get any guff about getting a Win 8 Pro Reinstallation disk and and Win 7 Pro one free of any charge except a nominal one for shipping.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



RazzyW8

@rr.com
reply to sholling

said by sholling:

said by SipSizzurp:

said by sholling:

I wouldn't put up with that phone OS on a laptop either.

Yer in luck !! He is not stuck with the RT version on his laptop, nor would you be.

He has the desktop version.

Yes I know he has the laptop/desktop version of the phone OS. Hopefully MS comes to its senses and replaces the the metro interface with something useful.

The Metro interface is very useful

Why?

Because I have 58 different desktop (with some live Modern) applications like QuickBooks, VirtualBox, MS Office, PuTTY, etc pinned on a single start screen and all it takes two mouse clicks to run it. Or I'd be stuck with messy start menu

computerman2
Premium
join:2002-04-20
Rockwood, MI
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
·AT&T Midwest
reply to Mele20

Been Using Windows 8 Pro With Media Center Since Friday October 26th, Adapted Well to the NEW Start menu myself, also use Desktop mode most of the time, but otherwise I got no issues with Windows 8 Pro at all.

Under the Hood Improvements from Windows 7 to 8, are worth it, ability to mount ISO's with File Explorer, Much Improved File Transfer Dialog, Task Manager, Responsiveness of the System, Totally enjoyable experience for me personally. Then again I do have a Windows Phone as well, so was kinda used to the Modern Interface with Live Titles anyways prior to getting Windows 8 Pro



Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..

1 edit
reply to Corehhi

As I watch the Win8 saga unfold, I'm struck by what I believe is a tactical error on the part of Microsoft, probably resulting from a strategic decision on their part. In order to drive user acceptance of a UI that integrates with MS's strategic plans for a single "user experience" across a broad range of device types, they have apparently designed and released a new OS that does not intentionally ease the transition in UI by having a single UI "choice" button right at the user's fingertips following bootup. Whether one can achieve such a "classic" UI via a path of multiple clicks and settings plus use of 3rd-party mods is irrelevant - it's not an inherent, "instant" part of the OS itself, and it's the OS that folks have just paid for, either directly or indirectly (as part of a new OEM system). It's the OS they will have to use daily for years to come.

Those users (and there are many, as reports clearly show) who simply want to use the next 'upgrade' version of an OS as a "tool" to be quickly put into use will be confounded by the very great clash in default user interfaces, and they will be put off by having to walk through anything but an immediate click that takes them to a UI that is familiar to them.

The tactical error made by MS was in not providing an obvious, simple means of achieving that. That it requires installing a third-party program to achieve a familiar UI experience makes it all appear worse - Microsoft was incapable of including a bit more code for the sake of such users, yet a third-party outfit had the code ready from the get-go? The effect on MS's "tool-oriented" user base has been the classic market response to such a glaring error: resist and resent... and the full effects of that have yet to play out in the marketplace, but I submit that they will be evident in dollars and cents before the dust finally settles on Win8. No user wants to be so clearly taken for granted, be overlooked, or be (in some articles) dissed away.

Users willing to accept the UI learning curve and the impacts on how actual work is accomplished seem to have few problems with Win8 (again, reports clearly show there are many such users). A lot of users who frequent these forums are in that class, so I expect that view to prevail around here. But Microsoft's business base lies with appealing to both kinds of users, and they have essentially now placed the one kind of user at arm's length... and that will have market impact - if only to significantly postpone some of their migrations to a new OS.

Ultimately, Win8 will gain market share, but its adoption by "tool-oriented" users will be impaired by what's occurred - especially by businesses where actual computing is done. At some point about 3 or 4 years hence, all the buzz will be about the upcoming new Win9. My guess is that by that time, Win9 versus Win8 will be very much akin to how Win7 is viewed versus Vista.
edit: clarity
--
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville



drew
Automatic
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
kudos:6
reply to Corehhi

It's patently obvious to anyone that has worked in the IT industry for at least a few years what the game plan is...

Microsoft has already had a helluva time getting their enterprise customers off XP. Many are just now beginning or in the middle of Win7 deployments. There was a slim (read: 0) chance that their enterprise clients were going to go with Win8 regardless of the UI shakeup.

The Office 2007 ribbon (which exposed some incredible application features to users without having to go through six menus) change was similar... Microsoft isn't run by idiots. They're well aware that Win8 won't have the numbers they do for 7.

I'm looking forward to owning a touch-sensitive Windows device with Win8 on it. I'm not rushing to buy one, nor have I purchased an upgrade for my desktop currently running Win7.
--
flickr | 'Cause I've been waiting, all my life just waiting
For you to shine, shine your light on me



vaxvms
ferroequine fan
Premium
join:2005-03-01
Wormtown
kudos:3
reply to Corehhi

Change is bad and serves no useful purpose. Never has. Never will.



MSeng
Premium,Ex-Mod 2001-08
join:2000-07-13
Ork
kudos:6
reply to Corehhi

Your problem is you are focusing too much on the interface. Take some time to learn what is behind it and you will see the OS is just as capable as Windows 7, will run anything Windows 7 can handle and offers some pretty neat features.

Did you know:

You can now mount an ISO image via File (Windows) Explorer?

You can run a "quick" chkdsk while an NTFS volume is mounted to tell you if the utility needs to be run on the disk?

Task Manager can provide details on Startup programs and how they impact the performance of the machine?
--
A)bort, R)etry, I)nfluence with large hammer.


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

1 edit
reply to Blackbird

I called Dell at 4AM...no sleep because I was calling Employee Software Support Program in Round Rock, Tx which operates on CST M-F. I was directed to this dept by a Dell email responding to my request for a Reinstallation disk for Win 8 Pro. Instead of getting this program, I got hardware support in India (special queue for this higher end machine).

The tech tried to tell me I could not get a reinstallation disk! He also tried to tell me I have no downgrade rights from Microsoft even though I deliberately bought a Win 8 Pro system through Employee/Employer Purchase Program from Dell Small/Med Business Division so that I would have my Microsoft downgrade rights.

I got transferred to a supervisor who was pulled out of a meeting to talk to me (so I would not have to wait for him to call hours later as I need to get some sleep). I made it very clear to him that Dell should not be charging buyers of new Dell systems with Win 8 Pro up to $100 (in England) for the right to downgrade to Win 7 Pro as that is not what Microsoft has said. At least this is not what I read in Microsoft's statement about downgrade rights. If Microsoft has made a muddy statement then Dell should have corrected that statement on its website on the conigurator and made it crystal clear that it believes we have NO downgrade rights.

The supervisor is now speaking with his team and higher ups in Dell and will call me back in two hours (no sleep tonight for me). I told him that since Dell is ignoring their own forum where folks are asking for clarification on getting Win 8 reinstallation disks and asking how to exercise their downgrade rights if they bought a new computer with Win 8 pro that I plan to post what he tells me when he calls back on the Dell forum and other forums and thus he should make sure he has correct information before calling me back.

First the supervisor said I could downgrade to Win 7 Pro at no charge (but I had to get to a supervisor and push hard to get that concession) but he said I could never upgrade back to Win 8 Pro. I told him that I believed that stance was in violation of my Microsoft downgrade rights which state I can upgrade back to Win 8 Pro when I am ready (which I told him would be when Microsoft issues a service pack removing Metro from Desktop computers and makes it easier for me to do things like change the default Windows font).

It will be interesting what Dell decides. I told him the computer goes to back to Dell if I cannot get both a Win 8 Pro Reinstallation disk and an Win 7 Pro one at no charge (except a reasonable handling/shipping fee).

(I also explained to him that I would have bought this system back in May with Win 7 except I read the Dell forum thread about this system having non-functional PCI-e ports! I told him I kept waiting and waiting for Dell to acknowledge the problem and then say how they would fix it and on what time schedule. 250 posts in the thread and Dell finally issued a BIOS upgrade to fix it. This was the end of September and they were still shipping the system with the old BIOS in mid-October. So, by the time I was able to order this system with the upgraded bios and functional PCI-e ports Dell was putting Win 8 on it).
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



Kramer
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
kudos:2
reply to Corehhi

Look at the Vostros and Latitudes from Dell. All are available with WIN7 on them from what I can tell. You really have to hunt to figure out how to get WIN8 on them. Dell isn't risking their corporate business.

That said, I really think you should reconsider. The Metro screen is completely ignorable and you can use the machine just like a WIN7 device if you want to. There are many significant improvements to Windows 8 that I and others have mentioned in various threads. I haven't seen the metro screen for the most part since the 2nd day I had Windows 8 installed on my PC. I did play with it for a while, decided I had no use for it and moved on. You need never see it again if you don't want to. It is unfortunate that the start menu has been removed IMHO, but that is easily remedied a hundred different ways, some not involving third party programs. Nothing is guaranteed in life but you would be safe in betting that Microsoft will have a service pack in the not too distant future that allows one to turn off Metro and enable a start button. It is really a very simple matter for you to do the same right now yourself and probably takes about 120 seconds to do so. You can be in more familiar territory and then explore or ignore Metro when and if you desire.



Brano
I hate Vogons
Premium,MVM
join:2002-06-25
Burlington, ON
kudos:10
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Bell Fibe
reply to Shootist

said by Shootist:

One thing you can do is Install Win 7 on it. Windows 8 is the first MS OS that allows you to use the Win 8 license key to install an older version of Windows with it.

This is great!
Where did you get this from? I can't find any official reference to this.
Anybody tried it?
Expand your moderator at work

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to Kramer

Re: WIN8 on new laptop=crap

You think it is an improvement that you cannot change the default Windows font except by entering the registry and making changes there? And how would one know to do this when they first start Win 8 and they can't read that awful Segoe font? You think it is an improvement that you cannot access Advanced Display/Item list in Win 8 so you cannot make necessary display changes? I can't even get small icons in the systray! Or space them closer together...they ares spaced way too wide apart. And the icon short cuts on the Desktop are GIGANTIC and without access to Advanced Display/Item list I can't make those tiny either. Plus, for the first time since Win 95, my Desksweeper program will not work to hide the Desktop icons. I don't know any way now to hide them. When I get a bunch I will not be able to see the theme underneath!

Yes, Win 8 has a vastly improved search over Vista/Win 7 that could not find anything but this, and a few other improvements, does not make up for ruining the display and the ability to adjust the display like the user needs/wants it.

As for avoiding Metro, I constantly have a HUGE black clock pop up for no reason on the desktop and it is almost impossible for me to see the vertical scroll bar in Fx because I can't change it to a better color (it's Windows default gray on gray color) so I am trying to grab it when I can't see it clearly and instead up pops that awful charms bar! Over and over this happens. If I barely move my mouse on Win 8, I get some weird crap showing up. That doesn't happen on earlier versions of Windows.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to Brano

said by Brano:

said by Shootist:

One thing you can do is Install Win 7 on it. Windows 8 is the first MS OS that allows you to use the Win 8 license key to install an older version of Windows with it.

This is great!
Where did you get this from? I can't find any official reference to this.
Anybody tried it?

Don't hold your breath. That is in reference to having purchased Win 8 Pro only not Win 8 Home on a new computer. You do have Microsoft downgrade rights to Win 7 Pro and the OEM must provide you with a Win 7 Pro disk at no charge according to Microsoft but the difficulty is in getting the OEM to honor these rights.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


Kramer
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
kudos:2

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to Mele20

Mele20 See Profile I would think that no more then one in ten million would be concerned with not being able to change the default Windows font without being able to make a registry change and I might be under-estimating the odds. I'm not judging you or your concern, because that is what makes you unique... But think about this for a minute... how many people out there would even think to change the default Windows font and then how many of those that would care that a registry change be required to do so. I can do everything I need to do and was pleased to see that without Aero, I can now set the font sizes on individual items, when I couldn't do it before in WIN7 Aero, without performing a wholesale enlargement of all fonts, bringing many apps to their knees.

As far as the charms and clock poppiing up, if you disable the active corners in Classicshell, that will stop. I am with you on using third party apps, but Classicshell hasn't caused me any problems yet and it sure makes me happy except for the slowness of the Start Menu popping up.



sholling
Premium
join:2002-02-13
Hemet, CA
kudos:1

2 edits

1 recommendation

reply to Blackbird

said by Blackbird:

As I watch the Win8 saga unfold, I'm struck by what I believe is a tactical error on the part of Microsoft, probably resulting from a strategic decision on their part. In order to drive user acceptance of a UI that integrates with MS's strategic plans for a single "user experience" across a broad range of device types, they have apparently designed and released a new OS that does not intentionally ease the transition in UI by having a single UI "choice" button right at the user's fingertips following bootup. Whether one can achieve such a "classic" UI via a path of multiple clicks and settings plus use of 3rd-party mods is irrelevant - it's not an inherent, "instant" part of the OS itself, and it's the OS that folks have just paid for, either directly or indirectly (as part of a new OEM system). It's the OS they will have to use daily for years to come.

As you pointed out what you see in these food fights is a culture clash between those that those that just want to use a computer as a tool to accomplish tasks and those that want to see the operating system as a new toy to play with. What you left out is the fact that there is a group that will accept any MS dog food no matter how bad and remain devoted fanbois.

Darn few home or business users fall into the last two categories which is why Windows 8 will not see corporate adoption ever and why home PC sales are suffering. MS got arrogant again and are going to have a choice between providing an interface choice or accepting reduced sales.

BTW there have been free tools for opening ISOs in Windows 7 for years without having to deal with a very limiting phone interface on a desktop.

said by vaxvms:

Change is bad and serves no useful purpose. Never has. Never will.

Change to improve the user experience is good, change because you think you know better than your customers and want to stuff your ideas down their unwilling throats is stupid. Forcing MS Bob 2013 on customers was a stupid and arrogant business decision driven by an egomaniac at MS.

--
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT--
Expand your moderator at work


OSUGoose

join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH
reply to Corehhi

Re: WIN8 on new laptop=crap

That's the point/problem right there, "you don't want to spend the time to figure this stuff out". Go buy a mac then complain because it doesn't do x, yet it does but you don't want to learn. Your what's wrong with customers now, want a new toy but don't want to learn how to use it, I hope staples charges you out the butt to return it for user error/remorse.



Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC

1 recommendation

said by OSUGoose:

That's the point/problem right there, "you don't want to spend the time to figure this stuff out". Go buy a mac then complain because it doesn't do x, yet it does but you don't want to learn. Your what's wrong with customers now, want a new toy but don't want to learn how to use it, I hope staples charges you out the butt to return it for user error/remorse.

The problem is to learn it so I can basically completely change a GUI. It is just poor design of the interface. I like stream lined slimmed down interfaces and Win 8 is the total opposite of that. Every OS I have had, had to be tuned to my liking but Win 8 is simply over the top when I have to get rid of the whole screens.

Day three for those who say I didn't give it a chance blaw blaw blaw. It's getting better but I still don't see the pay off, MS should have just put a classic button on Win 8 some where and it would have been well received I'm sure.

TH47

join:2005-10-29
Reviews:
·Videotron
reply to Corehhi

said by Corehhi:

Ok I can work with that. BTW I have seen no reason to upgrade from XP, win 7 isn't an upgrade except for the fact MS is killing off XP.

I guess it's a matter of opinion. I was enchanted from the start by the BIG ameliorations between 7 and XP.

As for between 7 and 8 I'll take your word, but I wouldn't buy 8 anyway without first reading a lot more on it...


Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC

said by TH47:

said by Corehhi:

Ok I can work with that. BTW I have seen no reason to upgrade from XP, win 7 isn't an upgrade except for the fact MS is killing off XP.

I guess it's a matter of opinion. I was enchanted from the start by the BIG ameliorations between 7 and XP.

As for between 7 and 8 I'll take your word, but I wouldn't buy 8 anyway without first reading a lot more on it...

Win 95 big upgrade after that Win 98SE was a good upgrade then XP, all useful worth while upgrades. I don't see any rush to upgrade from XP and last I saw 50% of the market is still XP. That's simply bad for MS their Holy Grail is an OS that you pay a monthly fee for and they simply keep remotely upgrading it for you forever. That's not going to happen so they just pump out an OS every few years hoping everyone upgrades, according to MS these OS's are always better than the last. Just group thought on this one, "everyone loves phones and apps, all computers should be that way". Say it enough times around MS and they all believed it after a while. DSL reports is a bad example of the normal population how do you think Win 8 is going go to over with people with malware infested computers and unprotected routers??? I'm sure they will just get Win 8, fool with it a bit and be good to go in a day or two??? LOL. Win 8 is going to be a huge bomb with no business person in their right mind touching it.

MS don't believe your own hype. Or as they say don't get high on your own supply.
Expand your moderator at work

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2
reply to Corehhi

Re: WIN8 on new laptop=crap

said by Corehhi:

I don't see any rush to upgrade from XP and last I saw 50% of the market is still XP.

Concur - WXP, as OS, does everything that I need from my computer to run my applications. And it does it in efficient way (still run OS on 18GiB partition and with only 512MiB of RAM, try do to it with W7). And because (as opposed to MS's marketing machine pitches) I need my computers not to run OS, but to run my applications with help of that OS, I still no need to upgrade it (contemporary browsers are gone insane with gobbling memory these days, but that's a different story).

That's simply bad for MS their Holy Grail ... so they just pump out an OS every few years hoping everyone upgrades, according to MS these OS's are always better than the last.

Yes, indeed. Until W8 their marketeers always tried to convince us that OS is how it looks - the bigger and more colorful icons; the better, the more transparency or aero effects, the better, etc. Now, with introducing W8 ,they have changed direction at 180° and now we should believe, that OS is not how it looks, but rather what is under its hood. Year, right... They think, they are always right and consumers are always dumb and incapable to see what they are doing... They simply want to pump it to the left, then to the right and to do it again and again ... just to make more money from the waves.

OS must be separated from the "how it looks" marketing nonsense. OS is first of all an environment to run applications. And how efficiently it does it for users - is the only important matter. Will MS span its business between phones and computers with the same UI paradigm is not...
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
reply to Corehhi

Best way to send a message to Microsoft is to return it and either buy a Mac or buy another computer with Win 7 or Linux. Keeping it still means a "sale" to Microsoft and that's what they love buy.

Hit them where it hurts and buy something else.



digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2
reply to OSUGoose

Considering the 7% market share of Apple's OS, the vast majority of desktop/laptop users aren't willingto pay a 30-50% premium to avoid the Microsoft "dogfood". MS wouldn't be where it is today if it didn't listen to their users' collective opinions.

Even Lexus cars have their detractors.
--
Logic requires one to deal with decisions that one's ego will not permit.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke.