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sholling
Premium
join:2002-02-13
Hemet, CA
kudos:1

2 edits

1 recommendation

reply to Blackbird

Re: WIN8 on new laptop=crap

said by Blackbird:

As I watch the Win8 saga unfold, I'm struck by what I believe is a tactical error on the part of Microsoft, probably resulting from a strategic decision on their part. In order to drive user acceptance of a UI that integrates with MS's strategic plans for a single "user experience" across a broad range of device types, they have apparently designed and released a new OS that does not intentionally ease the transition in UI by having a single UI "choice" button right at the user's fingertips following bootup. Whether one can achieve such a "classic" UI via a path of multiple clicks and settings plus use of 3rd-party mods is irrelevant - it's not an inherent, "instant" part of the OS itself, and it's the OS that folks have just paid for, either directly or indirectly (as part of a new OEM system). It's the OS they will have to use daily for years to come.

As you pointed out what you see in these food fights is a culture clash between those that those that just want to use a computer as a tool to accomplish tasks and those that want to see the operating system as a new toy to play with. What you left out is the fact that there is a group that will accept any MS dog food no matter how bad and remain devoted fanbois.

Darn few home or business users fall into the last two categories which is why Windows 8 will not see corporate adoption ever and why home PC sales are suffering. MS got arrogant again and are going to have a choice between providing an interface choice or accepting reduced sales.

BTW there have been free tools for opening ISOs in Windows 7 for years without having to deal with a very limiting phone interface on a desktop.

said by vaxvms:

Change is bad and serves no useful purpose. Never has. Never will.

Change to improve the user experience is good, change because you think you know better than your customers and want to stuff your ideas down their unwilling throats is stupid. Forcing MS Bob 2013 on customers was a stupid and arrogant business decision driven by an egomaniac at MS.

--
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT--
Expand your moderator at work


OSUGoose

join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH
reply to Corehhi

Re: WIN8 on new laptop=crap

That's the point/problem right there, "you don't want to spend the time to figure this stuff out". Go buy a mac then complain because it doesn't do x, yet it does but you don't want to learn. Your what's wrong with customers now, want a new toy but don't want to learn how to use it, I hope staples charges you out the butt to return it for user error/remorse.



Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC

1 recommendation

said by OSUGoose:

That's the point/problem right there, "you don't want to spend the time to figure this stuff out". Go buy a mac then complain because it doesn't do x, yet it does but you don't want to learn. Your what's wrong with customers now, want a new toy but don't want to learn how to use it, I hope staples charges you out the butt to return it for user error/remorse.

The problem is to learn it so I can basically completely change a GUI. It is just poor design of the interface. I like stream lined slimmed down interfaces and Win 8 is the total opposite of that. Every OS I have had, had to be tuned to my liking but Win 8 is simply over the top when I have to get rid of the whole screens.

Day three for those who say I didn't give it a chance blaw blaw blaw. It's getting better but I still don't see the pay off, MS should have just put a classic button on Win 8 some where and it would have been well received I'm sure.

TH47

join:2005-10-29
Reviews:
·Videotron
reply to Corehhi

said by Corehhi:

Ok I can work with that. BTW I have seen no reason to upgrade from XP, win 7 isn't an upgrade except for the fact MS is killing off XP.

I guess it's a matter of opinion. I was enchanted from the start by the BIG ameliorations between 7 and XP.

As for between 7 and 8 I'll take your word, but I wouldn't buy 8 anyway without first reading a lot more on it...


Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC

said by TH47:

said by Corehhi:

Ok I can work with that. BTW I have seen no reason to upgrade from XP, win 7 isn't an upgrade except for the fact MS is killing off XP.

I guess it's a matter of opinion. I was enchanted from the start by the BIG ameliorations between 7 and XP.

As for between 7 and 8 I'll take your word, but I wouldn't buy 8 anyway without first reading a lot more on it...

Win 95 big upgrade after that Win 98SE was a good upgrade then XP, all useful worth while upgrades. I don't see any rush to upgrade from XP and last I saw 50% of the market is still XP. That's simply bad for MS their Holy Grail is an OS that you pay a monthly fee for and they simply keep remotely upgrading it for you forever. That's not going to happen so they just pump out an OS every few years hoping everyone upgrades, according to MS these OS's are always better than the last. Just group thought on this one, "everyone loves phones and apps, all computers should be that way". Say it enough times around MS and they all believed it after a while. DSL reports is a bad example of the normal population how do you think Win 8 is going go to over with people with malware infested computers and unprotected routers??? I'm sure they will just get Win 8, fool with it a bit and be good to go in a day or two??? LOL. Win 8 is going to be a huge bomb with no business person in their right mind touching it.

MS don't believe your own hype. Or as they say don't get high on your own supply.
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OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2
reply to Corehhi

Re: WIN8 on new laptop=crap

said by Corehhi:

I don't see any rush to upgrade from XP and last I saw 50% of the market is still XP.

Concur - WXP, as OS, does everything that I need from my computer to run my applications. And it does it in efficient way (still run OS on 18GiB partition and with only 512MiB of RAM, try do to it with W7). And because (as opposed to MS's marketing machine pitches) I need my computers not to run OS, but to run my applications with help of that OS, I still no need to upgrade it (contemporary browsers are gone insane with gobbling memory these days, but that's a different story).

That's simply bad for MS their Holy Grail ... so they just pump out an OS every few years hoping everyone upgrades, according to MS these OS's are always better than the last.

Yes, indeed. Until W8 their marketeers always tried to convince us that OS is how it looks - the bigger and more colorful icons; the better, the more transparency or aero effects, the better, etc. Now, with introducing W8 ,they have changed direction at 180° and now we should believe, that OS is not how it looks, but rather what is under its hood. Year, right... They think, they are always right and consumers are always dumb and incapable to see what they are doing... They simply want to pump it to the left, then to the right and to do it again and again ... just to make more money from the waves.

OS must be separated from the "how it looks" marketing nonsense. OS is first of all an environment to run applications. And how efficiently it does it for users - is the only important matter. Will MS span its business between phones and computers with the same UI paradigm is not...
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
reply to Corehhi

Best way to send a message to Microsoft is to return it and either buy a Mac or buy another computer with Win 7 or Linux. Keeping it still means a "sale" to Microsoft and that's what they love buy.

Hit them where it hurts and buy something else.



digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2
reply to OSUGoose

Considering the 7% market share of Apple's OS, the vast majority of desktop/laptop users aren't willingto pay a 30-50% premium to avoid the Microsoft "dogfood". MS wouldn't be where it is today if it didn't listen to their users' collective opinions.

Even Lexus cars have their detractors.
--
Logic requires one to deal with decisions that one's ego will not permit.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke.



RazzyW8

@rr.com
reply to itguy05

said by itguy05:

Best way to send a message to Microsoft is to return it and either buy a Mac or buy another computer with Win 7 or Linux. Keeping it still means a "sale" to Microsoft and that's what they love buy.

Hit them where it hurts and buy something else.

There are far too many telling MS that they did a great job on Windows 8.


pfak
Premium
join:2002-12-29
Vancouver, BC
reply to Maven

said by Maven:

So uninstall those apps. Turn off whatever tracking you're talking about.

If you feel the start screen is that terrible, install classic shell as another user suggested and carry on. You are overreacting here.

Sounds like a lot of work just to use a computer, this stuff shouldn't be here in the first place.

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
reply to digitalfutur

said by digitalfutur:

Considering the 7% market share of Apple's OS, the vast majority of desktop/laptop users aren't willingto pay a 30-50% premium to avoid the Microsoft "dogfood". MS wouldn't be where it is today if it didn't listen to their users' collective opinions.

Even Lexus cars have their detractors.

Considering that Apple's markert share in PC's has been increasing for more than the past 2 years suggests people don't like Micosoft's products. Considering Apple's growth has outpaced the PC industry for the past few years I'd say people do not want Microsoft. I'd rather pay more for something that doesn't frustrate me than something cheaper that is a PITA to use.

And the price premium is not 30-50%. With the excpetion of the Mini, Apple does not play in the low end of the market. And that's fine. Just like there are PC's that cost more than Macbooks (Dell's high end flop from a couple years ago) people will buy them too. It's always funny how people bring up the "price premium" and then forget all the OEM's make cheap and expensive models.

Being in IT since the DOS days, I can assure you MS didn't get to where they are simply by listening to their users. They got there by bullying and not wanting to work with other vendors and locking other vendors out of their software. Even MS today claims to be "open" and such but when you have problems integrating their software (even though they say it works and is supported) you get the "well, if you were using Microsoft product zzz we can help you"...

It was well documented in the US's antitrust lawsuit a few years ago. There is a long list of products that are out of favor now that were/are much superior to Microsoft's products.

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
reply to RazzyW8

said by RazzyW8 :

There are far too many telling MS that they did a great job on Windows 8.

Like who? Reviews I've read have been mediocre at best. Those that think MS can do no wrong like it. Those that actually want to use a computer see how bad Metro really is and that there are different use cases for different form factors. Heck, smart users shun the Ugly Metro on the phone space, what makes MS think people want that nastiness on their computer?

Usability experts are chiming in about how Win8 and the dual desktop BS is hard to use and not intuitive. (And for the record I find Vista and Win 7 equally poor on the design/usability front.)

You have customers shunning it (as evidenced by poor sales). The Microsoft Windows head (who was responsible for Win 8) left last week.

I'd say that's not people telling MS they did a great job. People seem to be telling MS that they F-ed up big time.

Apple should do another round of "Get a Mac" ads and highlight how hard to use Win 8 is and bring back the old plastic Macbook at a really attractive price.

Ubuntu should be hard selling OEM's to replace Windows or give users the option at boot time.

Point is this is the perfect time for another player to knock MS off the top as people seem to not want Win 8.


mm
I Did It My Way
Premium
join:2001-04-07
Summerville, SC
kudos:1
Reviews:
·VoicePulse
reply to itguy05

said by itguy05:

said by digitalfutur:

Considering the 7% market share of Apple's OS, the vast majority of desktop/laptop users aren't willingto pay a 30-50% premium to avoid the Microsoft "dogfood". MS wouldn't be where it is today if it didn't listen to their users' collective opinions.

Even Lexus cars have their detractors.

Considering that Apple's markert share in PC's has been increasing for more than the past 2 years suggests people don't like Micosoft's products. Considering Apple's growth has outpaced the PC industry for the past few years I'd say people do not want Microsoft. I'd rather pay more for something that doesn't frustrate me than something cheaper that is a PITA to use.

And the price premium is not 30-50%. With the excpetion of the Mini, Apple does not play in the low end of the market. And that's fine. Just like there are PC's that cost more than Macbooks (Dell's high end flop from a couple years ago) people will buy them too. It's always funny how people bring up the "price premium" and then forget all the OEM's make cheap and expensive models.

Being in IT since the DOS days, I can assure you MS didn't get to where they are simply by listening to their users. They got there by bullying and not wanting to work with other vendors and locking other vendors out of their software. Even MS today claims to be "open" and such but when you have problems integrating their software (even though they say it works and is supported) you get the "well, if you were using Microsoft product zzz we can help you"...

It's easier to have the growth that Apple is experiencing with the Macintosh when the numbers are so small. And the main reason for that growth is the popularity of their iOS products. Their premium pricing is what's keeping the Mac from really growing. I have never bought a premium priced PC/Laptop and probably never will. The only reason I don't own a Mac is their pricing. It's insulting how much they cost. And they don't offer any flexible upgrade path. It's either an all in one with no upgrade path or that mini that is also limited. If they offered a standard desktop where you could install your own hard drives and memory and price it right they could get the rest of the industry nervous.

I loaded Win 8 on my old 2nd desktop yesterday. It's a quad core 2.6ghz with 8 gig of ram. It runs fine speed wise, but the user (me) can't stand it. I did install a 3rd party start up button last night which makes it much easier to use. Microsoft left the door wide open for Apple to come in and even get more market share, but without a reasonably priced computer it's out of the reach for most people.


RazzyW8

@rr.com
reply to itguy05

said by itguy05:

said by RazzyW8 :

There are far too many telling MS that they did a great job on Windows 8.

Like who? Reviews I've read have been mediocre at best. Those that think MS can do no wrong like it. Those that actually want to use a computer see how bad Metro really is and that there are different use cases for different form factors. Heck, smart users shun the Ugly Metro on the phone space, what makes MS think people want that nastiness on their computer?

Usability experts are chiming in about how Win8 and the dual desktop BS is hard to use and not intuitive. (And for the record I find Vista and Win 7 equally poor on the design/usability front.)

You have customers shunning it (as evidenced by poor sales). The Microsoft Windows head (who was responsible for Win 8) left last week.

I'd say that's not people telling MS they did a great job. People seem to be telling MS that they F-ed up big time.

Apple should do another round of "Get a Mac" ads and highlight how hard to use Win 8 is and bring back the old plastic Macbook at a really attractive price.

Ubuntu should be hard selling OEM's to replace Windows or give users the option at boot time.

Point is this is the perfect time for another player to knock MS off the top as people seem to not want Win 8.

For one of many, Paul Thurrott said he will not go back from Windows 8.

»goo.gl/zLAQL

"Usability Experts"? LOL! Please. This is the same guy who bitched about usability on iPads.

»goo.gl/Wo6ve

Ubuntu????? ARE YOU KIDDING? NO way. I only sell Ubuntu computers to people who requested it. NO way I'm forcing Ubuntu onto typical users - they'll be so lost and scream at me that their favorite software will not work.

It's not even a month. Give it time. People are jumping into conclusion WAY too soon. Windows 8 Pro Atom tablets aren't even out yet.


Kramer
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
kudos:2
reply to Corehhi

We are so off-topic here, it is time this thread close.