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plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Elgin, IL
kudos:2

[WIN8] Some Observations about Windows 8

I've been doing some testing with Windows 8 Pro x64 on a 2nd hard drive.

So far, I've put together some notes and install steps for myself (67 steps to be exact! ). The reason I have not moved to it yet is I'm still waiting for McAfee to release Patch 3 for Virus Scan Enterprise Version 8.8. From what I have read, that won't be till early Q1 2013.

In any case, I do have a few observations that I wanted to share with the group.

• None of the "Metro Apps" (Weather, Bing, Store, etc) work when you are logged in as the local administrator account. When you try to launch them, you get a nice dialog box telling you that they don't work. You either have to use a different local account, or a Microsoft live account.

• It appears you can only open one instance of the Control Panel at a time. In Windows 7, if I clicked the icon for Control Panel from the start menu, and then clicked on "System and Security", I could go back and click the icon again for Control Panel, and get a new instance. With that instance, I could then click on "Hardware and Sound", and have both open at the same time. If I try to do that in Windows 8, it just takes me to the current window. Does anyone know why it works this way?

• If you create a shortcut to Internet Explorer (target of the shortcut being C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\iexplore.exe), and place it on your desktop, it will of course launch IE as one would expect. However, if you place that shortcut into "C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs", and then try to launch it from inside of Metro, it will launch IE inside of Metro (not take you back out of Metro, and run it from there). As another test, I created a sub-directory called "Internet Items" at "C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs", and put two things in it. A shortcut to Waterfox, and the IE shortcut. Upon launching Metro, the IE shortcut was "removed", leaving just Waterfox under the "Internet Items" heading. However, if I went and looked at the actual directory, the IE shortcut was still there. It appears to me that Windows 8 is converting the IE shortcut to an "App", as it does place a tile for "Internet Explorer" on the left-hand side of the "All Apps" screen in the same place that other Metro Apps would be listed. As with other Apps, you cannot run this from the local administrator account.

Not sure if anyone else has noticed these things or not, which is why I wanted to point them out.

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail


Cudni
La Merma - Vigilado
Premium,MVM
join:2003-12-20
Someshire
kudos:13

Maybe your metro apps are blocked by whatever security software your are using as they certainly work under any account

Cudni



plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Elgin, IL
kudos:2

Click for full size
Main Metro Screen
Click for full size
Launching Travel App
Click for full size
Launching News App
The only security software I have running on Windows 8 is Windows Defender, and I have not made any changes to it.

The above 3 pictures show what I'm talking about. The first is what my main metro screen looks like. As you can see, I'm logged in using the local Administrator account.

The next two show what happens when I try to run the Travel and News App.

The text in the dialog box reads

quote:
This app can't open
News can't be opened using the Built-in Administrator account. Sign in with a different account and try again.

The same is true with the Store app, and Internet Explorer. I don't have them pinned to the main page, but when I go to all apps, and try to click on either one of them, I get the same message.

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail


Cudni
La Merma - Vigilado
Premium,MVM
join:2003-12-20
Someshire
kudos:13

reply to plencnerb
see
»social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums···4688542e

Cudni



plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Elgin, IL
kudos:2

Thanks!

I only mentioned it because I did not know if it was by design or not. After reading the page you referenced, I can understand why Microsoft set it up that way, as it would be a security risk for the system.

I enabled the built-in administrator account as that is where I install all my applications. My normal day-to-day tasks are run from a local account, and of course, does not have that problem.

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail



JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA
Reviews:
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said by plencnerb:

I enabled the built-in administrator account as that is where I install all my applications.

Why not just create a user account with admin privileges, and use that to do any admin work? You don't ever need to use the built in Administrator account. Why do people still treat windows like it was windowsXP?
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Elgin, IL
kudos:2

Just a force of habit I guess. I've always used the local administrator account to do the initial setup (install drivers, service packs, the first set of applications, modify global settings like power options, and so on.)

Once everything was done, I would then use another local account for my day to day work. While I should probably be running that account as a non-admin, I have not made the switch yet. Nothing stopping me from doing so, just have not done it.

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail



RazzyW8

@rr.com

reply to plencnerb

said by plencnerb:

• None of the "Metro Apps" (Weather, Bing, Store, etc) work when you are logged in as the local administrator account. When you try to launch them, you get a nice dialog box telling you that they don't work. You either have to use a different local account, or a Microsoft live account.

Of course, Metro apps are sandboxed apps, they should not be run as Administrator. It is as intended for much better security reason.

• It appears you can only open one instance of the Control Panel at a time. In Windows 7, if I clicked the icon for Control Panel from the start menu, and then clicked on "System and Security", I could go back and click the icon again for Control Panel, and get a new instance. With that instance, I could then click on "Hardware and Sound", and have both open at the same time. If I try to do that in Windows 8, it just takes me to the current window. Does anyone know why it works this way?

Strange, it opens a new control panel after I chose System and Security. How do you load the Control Panel? From Start screen? The way I go to Control Panel is RIGHT click the start corner and choose Control Panel when the menu shows up

• If you create a shortcut to Internet Explorer (target of the shortcut being C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\iexplore.exe), and place it on your desktop, it will of course launch IE as one would expect. However, if you place that shortcut into "C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs", and then try to launch it from inside of Metro, it will launch IE inside of Metro (not take you back out of Metro, and run it from there). As another test, I created a sub-directory called "Internet Items" at "C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs", and put two things in it. A shortcut to Waterfox, and the IE shortcut. Upon launching Metro, the IE shortcut was "removed", leaving just Waterfox under the "Internet Items" heading. However, if I went and looked at the actual directory, the IE shortcut was still there. It appears to me that Windows 8 is converting the IE shortcut to an "App", as it does place a tile for "Internet Explorer" on the left-hand side of the "All Apps" screen in the same place that other Metro Apps would be listed. As with other Apps, you cannot run this from the local administrator account.

Go to Internet Option then click on Program Tab and you should see the option there


RazzyW8

@rr.com

reply to plencnerb

said by plencnerb:

Just a force of habit I guess. I've always used the local administrator account to do the initial setup (install drivers, service packs, the first set of applications, modify global settings like power options, and so on.)

Once everything was done, I would then use another local account for my day to day work. While I should probably be running that account as a non-admin, I have not made the switch yet. Nothing stopping me from doing so, just have not done it.

--Brian

Huh I use a single same account (MS account or local) to install software, drivers, and stuff. It's a waste of time otherwise.


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Elgin, IL
kudos:2

1 edit

reply to RazzyW8

said by RazzyW8 :

Of course, Metro apps are sandboxed apps, they should not be run as Administrator. It is as intended for much better security reason.

Yes, noticed that thanks to Cudni See Profile's link.

said by RazzyW8 :

Strange, it opens a new control panel after I chose System and Security. How do you load the Control Panel? From Start screen? The way I go to Control Panel is RIGHT click the start corner and choose Control Panel when the menu shows up

I did try the method you use to open Control Panel, and I get the same results as you.

I then did some more research on this issue. It appears to be related to how Metro opens applications, and is not limited to Control Panel. I tested this with Waterfox, Notepad, Calculator, and Microsoft Word 2010.

From a shortcut on the desktop, I get the functionally I would expect (can click on the shortcut multiple times resulting in multiple instances of the application running).

However, if I do that from inside of Metro (item pinned to start, or on the "All Apps" screen), the functionally is different. If an application is not running, a new instance will be created. If an application is already running, a new instance won't be created. Instead, focus will be given to the running instance.

I wonder if there is a way to fix that, or if that was by design?

said by RazzyW8 :

Go to Internet Option then click on Program Tab and you should see the option there

That fixed it! I had to modify the options for how IE opens to be "Always in Internet Explorer on the desktop". Once I did that, I could click on the shortcut inside of Metro on the "All Apps" screen, and it then takes me out of Metro, and runs the IE "in desktop mode".

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail


Msradell
P.E.
Premium
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

reply to RazzyW8

said by RazzyW8 :

said by plencnerb:

Just a force of habit I guess. I've always used the local administrator account to do the initial setup (install drivers, service packs, the first set of applications, modify global settings like power options, and so on.)

Once everything was done, I would then use another local account for my day to day work. While I should probably be running that account as a non-admin, I have not made the switch yet. Nothing stopping me from doing so, just have not done it.

--Brian

Huh I use a single same account (MS account or local) to install software, drivers, and stuff. It's a waste of time otherwise.

+1 Certainly the easiest and most convenient way!


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA
Reviews:
·PHONE POWER
·Comcast

reply to plencnerb

said by plencnerb:

I wonder if there is a way to fix that, or if that was by design?

By design. »blogs.msdn.com/b/windowsappdev/a···uot.aspx
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Elgin, IL
kudos:2

I read the link, and I agree with what they are saying for the actual Metro Apps (Travel, Bing, Weather, Sports, and so on).

However, I'm talking about Non-Metro Apps. I installed Microsoft Office 2010, which for me included Word, Excel, and Powerpoint. That is not a Metro App, as it runs in "Desktop" mode.

Take the following example, using Microsoft Word.

In Windows 7, I open an existing word document by double-clicking on the document in the "Documents" Library. After working on the document for 30 minutes or so, I want to work on a new Word Document.

So, I click the start button, and click on the icon for Microsoft Word, and I get a new instance of Word, and a blank document. I then work on that new document, and also edit the 2nd document as well.

However, if I try the same in Windows 8, and try to open word the 2nd time from inside of Metro (as that is where all the icons are located for all installed applications), I won't be able to do that.

Yes, I know I can click on the "New" button inside of Word, and it will open a new document. Yes, I know I can create Icons on my desktop or pin them to the taskbar, and get the results that I want. Its just interesting that Microsoft "took away" functionally so to speak when it comes to launching applications. In Windows 7, it did not matter where you launched Word from (Icon on desktop, pinned to taskbar, icon on start menu, or the EXE directly), the behavior was the same.

Now in Windows 8, if one wants to embrace and use Metro (and not have icons on their desktop, or pinned to the taskbar), the specific functionally that existed in Windows 7 is gone.

Its just interesting that Metro is not able to tell the difference between a metro application, and a non-metro application when it comes to how they are launched.

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail


RazzyW8

@rr.com

reply to plencnerb

said by plencnerb:

said by RazzyW8 :

Of course, Metro apps are sandboxed apps, they should not be run as Administrator. It is as intended for much better security reason.

Yes, noticed that thanks to Cudni See Profile's link.

said by RazzyW8 :

Strange, it opens a new control panel after I chose System and Security. How do you load the Control Panel? From Start screen? The way I go to Control Panel is RIGHT click the start corner and choose Control Panel when the menu shows up

I did try the method you use to open Control Panel, and I get the same results as you.

I then did some more research on this issue. It appears to be related to how Metro opens applications, and is not limited to Control Panel. I tested this with Waterfox, Notepad, Calculator, and Microsoft Word 2010.

From a shortcut on the desktop, I get the functionally I would expect (can click on the shortcut multiple times resulting in multiple instances of the application running).

However, if I do that from inside of Metro (item pinned to start, or on the "All Apps" screen), the functionally is different. If an application is not running, a new instance will be created. If an application is already running, a new instance won't be created. Instead, focus will be given to the running instance.

I wonder if there is a way to fix that, or if that was by design?

said by RazzyW8 :

Go to Internet Option then click on Program Tab and you should see the option there

That fixed it! I had to modify the options for how IE opens to be "Always in Internet Explorer on the desktop". Once I did that, I could click on the shortcut inside of Metro on the "All Apps" screen, and it then takes me out of Metro, and runs the IE "in desktop mode".

--Brian

Hold down shift key and click.


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA
Reviews:
·PHONE POWER
·Comcast

reply to plencnerb

said by plencnerb:

Its just interesting that Metro is not able to tell the difference between a metro application, and a non-metro application when it comes to how they are launched.

--Brian

You're in an app, and you go back to the start screen to open the app a second time? This is faster than using New in the app?

Metro behavior is to reuse the app even if its a desktop app by default.

To get the behavior you want, right click the icon in Metro, and select "Open new Window"
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA
Reviews:
·PHONE POWER
·Comcast

reply to RazzyW8

said by RazzyW8 :

Hold down shift key and click.

Or that
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Elgin, IL
kudos:2

reply to JohnInSJ

said by JohnInSJ:

You're in an app, and you go back to the start screen to open the app a second time? This is faster than using New in the app?

Metro behavior is to reuse the app even if its a desktop app by default.

To get the behavior you want, right click the icon in Metro, and select "Open new Window"

Its not something I use a lot, and I will switch to use the "New" functionally inside of the app itself. Its not that big of a deal, I just wanted to point out a difference between how the functionally of the "Start Menu" in Windows 7 in reference to icons and launching programs is now different in "Start Screen, AKA Metro" in Windows 8.

Right-clicking on the icon in Metro and then clicking on "Open In New Window" works as it should. Also, RazzyW8's suggestion to "Hold down shift key and click" works just as good.

Thanks for letting me know. I did not know that was one of the many changes that Metro brings. Now I know!

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA

Well, Metro (don't call it Metro!) is not Start. If you want desktop behavior, put an icon on your desktop, or pin it to the taskbar.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us



RazzyW8

@rr.com

said by JohnInSJ:

Well, Metro (don't call it Metro!) is not Start. If you want desktop behavior, put an icon on your desktop, or pin it to the taskbar.

What does it say on top left of the "Metro" screen?


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA
Reviews:
·PHONE POWER
·Comcast

said by RazzyW8 :

said by JohnInSJ:

Well, Metro (don't call it Metro!) is not Start. If you want desktop behavior, put an icon on your desktop, or pin it to the taskbar.

What does it say on top left of the "Metro" screen?

It's not a START MENU on the DESKTOP. Sorry for not spelling that out for the obvious impaired.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

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