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rogersmogers

@start.ca

Payment Methods

Are you guys able to take Visa Debit for CC payments?

I just got one from the TD bank but your website keeps rejecting it. It would save me the headache of using my mastercard.



rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23

If it's a Visa it should be fine, maybe it's not activated yet?



rogersmogers

@start.ca

I've been using it for about 2 weeks as a debit card. First time trying the visa side of it.


jubenvi

join:2006-12-12
Sarnia, ON

I have a CIBC Visa Debit and not all sites will accept it either.

Not all merchants and the services they used to collect fees accept these type cards. (Something to do with fee differences)



rogersmogers

@start.ca
reply to rogersmogers

I added it to Paypal as a visa card so I know it works.


jubenvi

join:2006-12-12
Sarnia, ON

It's not a concrete it works or doesn't work.

Every merchant is different.
iTunes works fine with mine, yet Zip.ca won't.



Davesnothere
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START Today!
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4 edits
reply to rogersmogers

said by rogersmogers :

Are you guys able to take VISA Debit for CC payments?

I just got one from the TD bank but your website keeps rejecting it....

 
And it will be rejected elsewhere in Canada too ! - That is, until our banks coerce enough merchants to support this USA-based system which fell into their awareness when some of our banks began buying out USA banks.

I went thru this myself a few months back when the chip in my TD access card mysteriously failed and my branch issued me another card - one of the new ones featuring - you guessed it - VISA Debit !

I asked and my branch assured me that it would do EVERYTHING ELSE which my old card had done.

My experience ? - NOT !!!

When I called START to ask wassup on the VISA # being rejected, one of their experienced CS reps told me that these new TD cards DO cause this problem for START, as START has not yet worked out a deal with whatever provider is necessary to support VISA Debit, and that these new TD cards ( AND the similar ones from CIBC, who did this first to us in 2010 ) each present this issue.

To complicated matters further, the Interac Online capability (which START and most online Canadian merchants DO support) is removed from the cards in order to add the new VISA Debit functionality (not fully supported by Canadian merchants, as it is actually a US network), and TD's CS centre explained this to me, saying that the 'Banking Association' (or something) will not allow a card to support 2 online payment systems simultaneously. - Politics or what !!!

Therefive, I could not use Interac Online that month to pay START either !

"So Dave, what EVER did you DO ?!", asked the concerned crowd, from the edge of their seats.

[The Answer ? - Coming Soon, in another post....]

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !
-
START Forum »Start Communications
Or you can still use Canadian Broadband.



Davesnothere
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reply to rogersmogers

said by rogersmogers :

I added it to Paypal as a visa card so I know it works.

 
So did I (while I briefly had the card), but that proves little or nothing.

PayPal is much more tolerant of credit card variants, including the prepaid Titanuim credit cards from Money Mart.

I have had one of those working on PayPal too, and it DID also work with START - but the card fees are sky-high.


Davesnothere
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4 edits
reply to Davesnothere

said by Davesnothere:

said by rogersmogers :

Are you guys able to take VISA Debit for CC payments?

I just got one from the TD bank but your website keeps rejecting it....

 
....I could not use Interac Online that month to pay START either !

"So Dave, what EVER did you DO ?!", asked the concerned crowd, from the edge of their seats.

 
OK, so next, armed with what the TD call centre had told me (in my earlier post), AND their statement that the new cards were the only type available now, I returned to my branch, and engaged the manager there.

She said "Oh, but we DO have some of the old-style TD Access cards left - the ones which still support Interac Online ! - The bank just wants us to promote the new ones, and the teller who issued you the new type the other day was not made aware that we have any old ones left, nor was she supposed to know."

I then asked whether or not I could HAVE one of those few remaining old style cards, and after I agreed that that I understood that the bank would at some later point be making us all change again anyway, she switched me back to one for now, as we both realized that it would help me solve my most immediate problem, which was making that month's payment ahead of time to START.

It was a shame to lose the VISA Debit capability, as it functions as prepaid credit card fed directly from a bank account (in fact it is an ALIAS number to the bank account, the way that TD & CIBC do it), because the fee structure is so much lower than those Money Mart Titanium reloadable prepaid credit cards.

I returned home, went to the START website, and the Interac Online worked immediately with new old-style card.

= = = = = = = = =

But what did I do about a new prepaid reloadable credit card, to escape the clutches of the Money Mart fee structure ?

During the next month, I applied (just a formality) for one of the OTHER prepaid reloadable credit cards which I had previously noticed and had been researching.

THIS card has NO online issues and can also be linked to PayPal, which I have done and successfully used for PayPal transcations.

It is called the 'BMO Travel MasterCard', and was regarded as trouble-free by START's CS when I had called in earlier.

Its fee structure is VERY minimal at $7 per year and nothing per purchase transaction (but something to pull cash advances from an ATM, just like almost all credit cards).

The only thing is that in order to get funds INTO the card immediately, you must maintain a personal bank account at BMO, but the s/c's for that are also minimal.

So now you know - the REST of the story !

Hope that helps someone, and Cheers !


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to Davesnothere

A Visa Debit card *should* work, there's nothing preventing it other than the supplier of their merchant account not having a process in place to accept them, and there are already many Canadian merchant accounts that do. This has nothing to do with US suppliers or Canadian banks.

At my store I can accept them for not-present transactions only where I have to manually key in the number and the CVV. Anything physically present with a chip will use Interac by default and not allow you to use Visa debit.



Davesnothere
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1 edit

said by Gone:

A Visa Debit card *should* work, there's nothing preventing it other than the supplier of their merchant account not having a process in place to accept them, and there are already many Canadian merchant accounts that do.

This has nothing to do with US suppliers or Canadian banks.

At my store I can accept them for not-present transactions only where I have to manually key in the number and the CVV. Anything physically present with a chip will use Interac by default and not allow you to use Visa debit.

 
TD's new access cards do have a chip (as do their old ones), and their call centre CS rep said to me that the new ones simply do NOT support Interac Online, for the (most likely political) reason which I stated above.

This puts companies such as START on the hot seat for such cards, until they decide what they will do to help us still have enough valid ways to pay them.

My consultation with START's accounting department actually helped me decide how to handle things better at MY end, and I will be posting that info soon, likely just above, so that all folks here can benefit.

And BTW this has EVERYTHING to do with US suppliers and/or Canadian banks. - THEY have changed our rules in the middle of the game.


Gone
Premium
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Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

Those cards don't support Interac Online because they want you to use the Visa network for online transactions. It's a bit heavy-handed, but I can see why they do it. Just the same, those cards don't support Visa for point-of-sale chip transactions in Canada, just Interac. Interac Online merchant fees are also higher than Interac POS, which negates the advantage of accepting Interac instead of something on a credit card network.

Having said all this, there is no conspiracy or anything silly like that. If Start is running into issues accepting Visa Debit cards, it's nothing a call to their merchant account provider shouldn't be able to resolve.



Davesnothere
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1 edit

said by Gone:

Those cards don't support Interac Online because they want you to use the Visa network for online transactions.

It's a bit heavy-handed, but I can see why they do it.

Just the same, those cards don't support Visa for point-of-sale chip transactions in Canada, just Interac.

Interac Online merchant fees are also higher than Interac POS, which negates the advantage of accepting Interac instead of something on a credit card network.

Having said all this, there is no conspiracy or anything silly like that.

If Start is running into issues accepting Visa Debit cards, it's nothing a call to their merchant account provider shouldn't be able to resolve.

 
I agree with pretty much all of that (and posted similarly earlier to most of it).

However I do not believe that I called it a conspiracy (though maybe IMPLIED that ).

It would be hard for it to be labelled a conspiracy when only 2 of the big 5 Canadian banks are supporting it so far, but I DO wholeheartedly agree that it is heavy-handed on the part of TD at least, who is now openly advertising these new TD Access cards in their branches on tall standalone floor signs, and STILL without explaining upfront about what the customer will lose in functionality if/when they end up with such a card !

The WHY they are doing it is MONEY, pure and simple (it ALWAYS is), and I am sure that the other 3 banks are watching closely to see whether or not TD loses their prided 7th consecutive year held Customer Satisfaction Crown next year over doing this and not being sufficiently open about the pros & cons.

Finally, I wonder how much that it will cost a merchant to add VISA Debit and/or MasterCard Debit to their POS acceptance list, each for online AND for in-person purchases ?


Gone
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Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

What functionality will they "lose" ?

Of the very small limited number of merchants who accept Interac Online - and it is a *VERY* small number - *all* of them also take Visa. Of all the online merchants that don't take Interac Online - most of them - they *all* take Visa. If anything, having a debit card that uses the Visa network rather than Interac Online is a far better thing as far as the ability to use your card online goes.

So, tell me again, what are they doing to harm their level of customer service? What is the con?

(there is a potential con, but it's to the merchant not the customer, and that's an entirely different discussion all together)

Like I said, if there is an issue with Start accepting payments from a TD or CIBC Visa Debit card, that's an issue for the merchant provider, not a reason to get all pissy at the banks.



Davesnothere
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said by Gone:

....not a reason to get all pissy at the banks.

 
What ?

You own bank shares ?


Davesnothere
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reply to Gone

said by Gone:

....(there is a potential con, but it's to the merchant not the customer, and that's an entirely different discussion all together)....

 
That's my point exactly, and it will reflect badly on the merchants when a purchase unexpectedly cannot be completed, when it ought to reflect badly on some of the banks, for not being forthright with their customers about what will change.

Folks will first find out when they go to USE the new card, not when they acquired it.

No wonder the other banks are hesitating to join in on this change yet !


Gone
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No, it wasn't your point, because you were talking about customer service crowns and customers being screwed back no Interac Online, not merchants paying higher fees (which is a bit of a straw issue in itself, as Interac Online fees are higher than regular Interac)

But really, this entire line of discussion has diverged so widely from the original point that we may as well just drop it.



Davesnothere
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reply to Gone

said by Gone:

What functionality will they "lose" ?

Of the very small limited number of merchants who accept Interac Online - and it is a *VERY* small number - *all* of them also take Visa....

 
Not sure where you get your stats, but even the TD call centre rep admitted to me over the phone that Interac Online was much more prevalent in Canada than VISA Debit, so far.

However he parroted the TD talking point that it would only be a matter of time until that changed, especially WHEN ( What, did he have a crystal ball or somethng ?! ) more merchants - AND banks - joined in.


Davesnothere
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reply to Gone

said by Gone:

....But really, this entire line of discussion has diverged so widely from the original point....

 
Which (for those avidly following) was to determine how we can or cannot make a payment to Start Communications, and why so, if I recall correctly.

To summarize :

WARNING : VISA Debit is currently NOT one of them, and a Canadian bank card which supports it will NOT currently support Interac Online.


Gone
Premium
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Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to Davesnothere

said by Davesnothere:

Not sure where you get your stats, but even the TD call centre rep admitted to me over the phone that Interac Online was much more prevalent in Canada than VISA Debit, so far.

Visa Debit is Visa. Anywhere that takes Visa has the ability to take Visa Debit. It may take a call to your merchant provider if they didn't automatically enable it, but it's there.

Interac Online, on the other hand, is accepted by a whopping 300 merchants in Canada. Visa is accepted by every single merchant that does business online in not only Canada but also in the USA. Every single last one.

Now, please, move on.


Davesnothere
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said by Gone:

Now, please, move on.

 
When I see proof, I will.

Going thru this wasted a good part of a week of my time, and I wish to save others from that.


Gone
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reply to Davesnothere

said by Davesnothere:

To summarize :

To which, I'll bet you $10 rocca himself or one of his employees is on the phone with their merchant provider to rectify this situation or to get some sort of clarification when it will be available.


Gone
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kudos:4
reply to Davesnothere

said by Davesnothere:

When I see proof, I will.
Going thru this wasted a good part of a week of my time, and I wish to save others from that.

Do you have a merchant account that you use to take payments from customers?

I do.

I wish people who think they know what they're talking about but really don't would stop wasting other people's time, too.


Davesnothere
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1 edit
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

....It may take a call to your merchant provider if they didn't automatically enable [VISA Debit], but it's there....

 
And cost the merchant nothing extra ?

So that's why they all have done it already then.


Gone
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It's cheaper than taking a regular Visa payment. If you had read some of the comments that had been said by others earlier, there's a different fee structure for Visa Debit than there is for Visa Credit. This is why some merchants are running into issues accepting the card.

Just the same, there is a different - most expensive - fee structure for Interac Online than there is for Interac POS.



Davesnothere
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reply to Gone

said by Gone:

Do you have a merchant account that you use to take payments from customers?

I do....

 
I gave up my Moneris account before all of this happened.

So what did it cost up front to add it (and monthly and per transaction) when you called to enable VISA Debit for your account ?


Davesnothere
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reply to Gone

said by Gone:

....Rocca himself or one of his employees is on the phone with their merchant provider to rectify this situation or to get some sort of clarification when it will be available.

 
And I would be verrrry curious as to the answers, as well as the comparative fee structures at the merchant end.


Gone
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reply to Davesnothere

Nothing. They did it automatically and sent me a letter in the mail outlining the whole process. It won't work for in-person chip transactions - those default to Interac - but it will work for keyed transactions.



Gone
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reply to Davesnothere

said by Davesnothere:

as well as the comparative fee structures at the merchant end.

That, quite frankly, is none of your business. If you want to know, open a merchant account yourself.


Davesnothere
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reply to Gone

said by Gone:

Nothing. They did it automatically and sent me a letter in the mail outlining the whole process.

It won't work for in-person chip transactions, but it will work for keyed transactions.

 
Interesting.

So I wonder whether START's merchant services provider sees it all differently than yours ?

Hmmmm....

I did what I did in order to achieve an immediate resolution at the time, so until this thread began, I was unsure of what (if anything) that START had done regarding this issue.

Sounds like it's time for Mister Rocca to weigh in.

And I gotta hit the IG before it closes.

See Ya.