| reply to Jack_in_VA
Re: Structured wiring questions for new (old) home 3 gig connectors DO make a difference - whether you believe it or not - for many digital signals
In the case of the new generation satellite internet services, a non 3 gig barrel connector can and will prevent the automated quality check system to fail, preventing the completion of the installation process |
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 Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | reply to Liberty
said by Liberty:You are entitled to your opinion Jack
I have been working in the field for well over a decade and am speaking from real world experience
I am sure there are plenty of exceptions to any 'rule' but doesn't change the facts that certain materials are not engineered to perform certain tasks - even if they sometimes can/do
fwiw - sat tv receivers use 13 and 18 volts
100% of sat installations REQUIRE 3gig swept/solid copper coax - no exceptions allowed
Around a decade? Ok
I guess I'll have to stop watching my Directv as it can't be working without 3 GHz swept/solid copper coax and 3 GHz barrel connectors.
quote:
100% of sat installations REQUIRE 3gig swept/solid copper coax - no exceptions allowed
How about posting the info from Directv and Dish stating that. I agree that RG-6 is a requirement but 3 GHz
quote:
It's important that you use RG6 cable due to the frequency of the digital signals it must carry. RG6 has the correct impedance (75 ohms) and acceptable signal losses at 950 to 1450 MHz.
Source: »support.directv.com/app/answers/···g-cables
950 to 1450 MHz is a long way from 3 GHz.
It never ceases to amaze me the statements I see on this thread. |
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Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | reply to Liberty
said by Liberty:3 gig connectors DO make a difference - whether you believe it or not - for many digital signals
In the case of the new generation satellite internet services, a non 3 gig barrel connector can and will prevent the automated quality check system to fail, preventing the completion of the installation process
Let's see. I have the latest "new generation" sat internet service and I don't have 3 GHz coax or connectors. But it's working. According to you it won't work but I'm using it right now |
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 Killa200Premium
join:2005-12-02
Southeast TN
 ·Charter
| reply to Liberty
said by Liberty:100% of sat installations REQUIRE 3gig swept/solid copper coax - no exceptions allowed
A statement I and my co-workers can prove wrong everyday when i come into work and visit the random house of the day in town to tear down their satellite service and put in cable. The only 100% requirement i seem to find is that the contractor use as much existing wiring as possible, weather the stuff be good or not. I swear if the satellite contractors in this region could crimp and f fitting on twin lead, they'd use it.
Around here we usually refuse to re-use sat wiring, as when they do run new stuff, it is the cheapest stuff we have ever seen. The stinger doesn't seem to hold up for any amount of time in the cable once it is put in a compression fitting. The core also seems to have little to no rigidity, and it will easily bend over itself, basically ruining the cable at that spot. |
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| reply to Jack_in_VA
"Let's see. I have the latest "new generation" sat internet service and I don't have 3 GHz coax or connectors. But it's working. According to you it won't work but I'm using it right now"
You have Exede or Gen4 Hughesnet?
If so, do yourself a favor and call support and report it - they will send a corporate QC person out to remedy your faulty installation
Your system could be just barely passing
It is degrading your service and the sub who did your work will likely have their installer ID canceled |
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| reply to Jack_in_VA
said by
I guess I'll have to stop watching my Directv as it can't be working without 3 GHz swept/solid copper coax and 3 GHz barrel connectors.
quote:
100% of sat installations REQUIRE 3gig swept/solid copper coax - no exceptions allowed
How about posting the info from Directv and Dish stating that. I agree that RG-6 is a requirement but 3 GHz
quote:
It's important that you use RG6 cable due to the frequency of the digital signals it must carry. RG6 has the correct impedance (75 ohms) and acceptable signal losses at 950 to 1450 MHz.
Source: »support.directv.com/app/answers/···g-cables
950 to 1450 MHz is a long way from 3 GHz.
It never ceases to amaze me the statements I see on this thread.
[/BQUOTE :May I be so bold as to suggest that one can try to make a point without being an assh*le in the process?
I think you may find a bit of helpful info at this link - be sure to read the complete thread as some later comments will help in understanding what we are REQUIRED to do.
»forums.directv.com/pe/action/for···10525897
Yes there are sub contractors who don't give a 'bleep' and cut corners and don't follow the rules
Less than optimal service is often the result... |
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| reply to Killa200
said by Killa200:said by Liberty:100% of sat installations REQUIRE 3gig swept/solid copper coax - no exceptions allowed
A statement I and my co-workers can prove wrong everyday when i come into work and visit the random house of the day in town to tear down their satellite service and put in cable. The only 100% requirement i seem to find is that the contractor use as much existing wiring as possible, weather the stuff be good or not. I swear if the satellite contractors in this region could crimp and f fitting on twin lead, they'd use it. Around here we usually refuse to re-use sat wiring, as when they do run new stuff, it is the cheapest stuff we have ever seen. The stinger doesn't seem to hold up for any amount of time in the cable once it is put in a compression fitting. The core also seems to have little to no rigidity, and it will easily bend over itself, basically ruining the cable at that spot. Unfortunately you are too often correct
There are legions of poorly paid subs who cut every corner they can to maximize their meager pay
Cheapo cable is a frequent corner to cut
100% of installations are infact REQUIRED to use premium cable - not the same thing as every installer DOES use it
These days, when returns to stockholders are vastly more important than maximizing customer satisfaction, quality control budgets are among the first to be cut
The 'easy to bend' stinger is actually a potential indicator of superior cable
It implies solid copper rather than plated steel - quite a bit more expensive than plated stinger |
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| reply to hambone42
I don't see what the fuss is about the blue barrels (3 GHz swept). I needed them for wall plates anyway and they are far superior than the 1979 gold deteriorated ones they were on my old wall plates. Considering the cost difference is so minor and a bag of them can be purchased cheap, might as well.
I know nothing is 3 GHz today, but what about in the future? Vyyo made a 3 GHz overlay for CATv but it didn't take off. Sure all switched digital video and channel bonding looks like we won't need more than 1 GHz on coax, but you never know. |
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 hambone42Peace, through superior firepowerPremium
join:2002-02-02
Manassas, VA | reply to hambone42
Thanks for all your suggestions. Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of being able to allocate multiple weekends to the job as the boss expects to move in and have everything ready by Christmas.  I guess I'll have to reuse the RG-59 in the short term. My long-term plan is to have two cable connections at each TV location -- one for CATV, the other for OTA -- in addition to one or two .
I don't have any way of testing the existing RG-59 other than trying to jury-rig an OTA setup -- and that won't provide a useful test for the upper UHF frequencies. At the very least, though, I do need to trace the existing RG-59 runs and test for continuity. Can anyone recommend a device for that purpose? If all else fails, I guess I could use a 6V battery and a buzzer. 
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Sarcasm is the Body's Natural Defense Against Stupidity |
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Reviews:
 ·AT&T Southeast
·RoadRunner Cable
| You've had a lot of suggestions but many didnt address the Cat 5 vs. 6 or 6e issue.
You have the Cat5 right? Use the heck out of it and if you run out then consider 6 or 6e for the next box...
I know of a VoIP/RoIP system that spec'd Cat6 but the actual thru-put was not near GigE speeds, so the company said Cat5 is fine... I don't expect to see that need in my house for several years, if ever... |
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Reviews:
·Comcast
| reply to hambone42
Well, it sounds like the RG-59 upgrade will be a long term project.
As for Cat-5e vs Cat-6, I would use your existing Cat-5e cable. And in the future, use more Cat-5e. If you mix Cat-levels, it is only as good as the weakest link (which in the case of Cat-5e, is pretty dang good). Gb LAN connections? You should be okay for awhile 
I would consider building an awning of sorts for the board to keep any water leaks out of the way, but have it in an easier to access location for yourself.
Fishing walls? Good luck As mentioned, it can go a million different ways, and only 3 of them are easy and quick :P |
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 alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1 | Well, if he goes cat5e, he should at least buy keystones and jacks for cat6. They cost the same anyway and perform a bit better.
That way, WHEN 10gbase-t becomes a consumer standard and his more distant jacks need an upgrade to cat6, he won't need to replace the jacks.
Cat5e should be able to take 10gbase-t but for shorter runs. |
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Killa200Premium
join:2005-12-02
Southeast TN Reviews:
·Charter
| said by alkizmo:Well, if he goes cat5e, he should at least buy keystones and jacks for cat6. They cost the same anyway and perform a bit better.
That way, WHEN 10gbase-t becomes a consumer standard and his more distant jacks need an upgrade to cat6, he won't need to replace the jacks.
Cat5e should be able to take 10gbase-t but for shorter runs.
Issue with using 6 keystones with 5e cable is the standard 6 cable is a thicker gauge wire, which could lead to loose terminations when using other cable than 6. |
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Reviews:
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to hambone42
said by hambone42:I don't have any way of testing the existing RG-59 other than trying to jury-rig an OTA setup -- and that won't provide a useful test for the upper UHF frequencies. At the very least, though, I do need to trace the existing RG-59 runs and test for continuity. Can anyone recommend a device for that purpose? If all else fails, I guess I could use a 6V battery and a buzzer.
An alternative would be to put a terminator (with a barrel) on one end of a cable, and check the other with an ohm meter. The meter should read about 75 ohms. If the cable goes through a splitter, then you shouldn't read 75 ohms.
The battery might fry a splitter, unless you limit the current with a resistor. |
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 leiboldPremium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:6
·SONIC.NET
| reply to mitchell
said by mitchell:You've had a lot of suggestions but many didnt address the Cat 5 vs. 6 or 6e issue. Perhaps because there is no such thing as 6e ?
Currently available twisted pair cables are:
Cat 3 (or III), Cat 5, Cat 5E, Cat 6 or Cat 6A.
Both Cat 5E and Cat 6A are the result of adding more performance criteria (or tightening the limits) on previously released cable specifications (Cat 5 and Cat 6) in response to the needs of new high speed communication protocols. The enhanced version of Cat 6 is often mistakenly called Cat 6E (probably because of the experience with Cat 5 and Cat 5E).
--
Got some spare cpu cycles ? Join Team Helix or Team Starfire! |
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Beezel
join:2008-12-15
Las Vegas, NV | said by leibold:said by mitchell:You've had a lot of suggestions but many didnt address the Cat 5 vs. 6 or 6e issue. Perhaps because there is no such thing as 6e ? Currently available twisted pair cables are: Cat 3 (or III), Cat 5, Cat 5E, Cat 6 or Cat 6A. Both Cat 5E and Cat 6A are the result of adding more performance criteria (or tightening the limits) on previously released cable specifications (Cat 5 and Cat 6) in response to the needs of new high speed communication protocols. The enhanced version of Cat 6 is often mistakenly called Cat 6E (probably because of the experience with Cat 5 and Cat 5E). Also there is CAT 7. »www.frys.com/product/5790132?sit···_RSLT_PG |
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Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | Cat-7
The Monster snake oil salesmen are busy.  |
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| reply to hambone42
mmm that's good kool aid. |
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leiboldPremium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:6 Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
| reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:said by Beezel:Also there is CAT 7. The Monster snake oil salesmen are busy. 
I didn't want to go there. You are correct that ISO/IEC 11801 did define Class F / Cat 7 and even Cat 7A already. However I don't think EIA/TIA is including Cat 7 yet. Cat 7 cable was intended for 10Gbps networking but requires special connectors (either GG45, ARJ45 or TERA) in order to meet the specification. As a result most vendors stick with Cat 6A and "RJ45" connectors which are sufficient for 10Gbps. Whether Cat 7 or Cat 7A will become popular with some future network protocol is yet to be determined.
--
Got some spare cpu cycles ? Join Team Helix or Team Starfire! |
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Beezel
join:2008-12-15
Las Vegas, NV | Yea Cat 7 is still in it's infancy. |
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