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tcope
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join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT

tcope to Draiman

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Re: New Windows

Yup, I'm going to ask him what rebates/incentives end on 2012. I spoke to a window company and they tell me that, for the windows, nothing ends in 2012.

I'm also having a window company come out on Saturday to give me a quote and talk to me about the windows. But they don't do doors or insulation. This is the pain I wanted to avoid... I would need to finance the doors and the insulation (if I had someone do the insulation). I'd much prefer to roll it all up into one piece of financing. But I can't do this if different people do the work. But I guess I could always put the doors on a credit card and pay them off withing a month or two and then do the insulation myself.

I'd rather do the insulation myself as the boards installed now are nailed in. I want to screw them in so that they can be removed if needed. Right now I have cable wires running on the outside of the boards. I'd like to drill some small holes in the joists and move the cable lines on the inside of the boards.

Nick_L
Premium Member
join:2003-01-22
Pittsburgh, PA

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There are plusses and minuses to everything, so just to throw out a few comments to help you make a decision:

10 year old (or similar aged) windows will not help your equity much. In home sales there are New windows, then there is everything else.

There are several studies that show that rehabbing existing windows will net almost the same energy savings as new windows, at a small fraction of the cost.

Sometimes replacement windows are easy to install, sometimes it is a mess for the homeowner. Those tiled window stools (sills) may make it a big pain for you.

Replacement parts (such as new torsion closers) are readily available online an locally in bigger cities. The same with the weather stripping. It most likely just slips into a channel in the window sash/frame. You may even find it at the big box stores.

Don't forget to use the "lock". Many people don't realize it, but the real purpose of the "lock" (it's hard to really lock something that is 96% glass) is to bring the two sections of glass together to form a tighter seal against air infiltration.

I'm not sure if you metioned what material the windows were made of but generally metal windows were/are a bad idea, heat transmission wise. Doubly so with aluminum. It might be worth it to upgrade for that reason.

New windows are almost always more attractive (assuming we aren't talking about historic windows).

New windows will generally have a better (read: more efficient) glass "sandwich" than older windows. The amount of money that might save you will vary based on your circumstances.

BillRoland
Premium Member
join:2001-01-21
Ocala, FL

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I'm in the same boat right now, home built in 1978, original windows, single pane aluminum. My main objective is sound reduction.

Red_Menace
poking around since 1978
join:2001-11-03
Fruita, CO

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They are probably talking about the federal tax incentives that expired at the end of 2011.
tcope
Premium Member
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT

tcope

Premium Member

Well, he first guy came buy and explained everything about the energy efficiency "program" that they offer. I tend to agree with his statement that windows account for very little utility savings. He said this is why they started their program. They do a thermal image of the home and testing. They increase attic insulation to 20". They seal all fixtures that lead to the attic, insulation in the outlets and switches, lots of different things. In doing this they guarantee a 40% savings in utilities. I still don't see how they could guarantee this as every home and every condition would be different.

They replace the windows with triple pane but even he says that this only amounts to a low percentage of savings.

The cost to do the entire home would be $25k. If I signed this evening (I did not), they would discount it 35% to $16k. If I jusy have the windows done it's about $10k.

Since there was such a difference in savings from just the windows at $10k to doing the "program", the utility savings would easily offset the additional $6k.

I have a window guy coming in on Saturday. They only do double pane windows. He told me today that he does not think the rebates given by the gas and electric company will expire this year (the first guy said that they would and he says website info is out there stating it ends 12/2012).

Think I did not like about doing the "program"... we never talked about the _type_ of windows I want. I guess it's one choice and only one choice. I certainly would like to know _exactly_ what I'm buying before I got it. I did not like that he could quote me a price without knowing exactly what they would be doing. The 35% "discount" scared me a little. Obviously that is a market up as they could not afford to loose that amount. That is a pretty big mark up.

He also spent a lot of time hiding the cost in the form of payments less utility savings (such as taking the monthly cost over 20 years, subtracting the "40% savings" and giving me my months cost based on that. They also offered all kinds of weird incentives such as $1000 in food, 1 free trip, etc (I know all of that really costs in some way).

The window guy comes Saturday and I'll see what he has to say. I don't think I want to spend $25k or $16k. From what I understand, new windows should run around $8k. I think I might do the insulation on my own or perhaps even hire a handy man person who'd probably cost me about $300 plus materials (around $500).

I also want thinks like tinting on my front windows (I have it now) and don't know if the "program" company even does stuff like this. They seemed solely interested in doing their "program".
tcope

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tcope

Premium Member

So the 2nd guy came out from a window company. _Really_ liked what this guy had to say. He was very helpful in doing things such as giving me his thoughts on colors, recommendations (pro/cons) on going with different models/types of windows, etc.

His price was $8,000 which I felt was very reasonable.

I asked about double vs triple pane. He said about the only time they sell a triple pane is to people in the mountains or if someone in a house complains about how cold it is sitting next to a window. They can go with a triple code of Low E and this is about the same (I think this was an upgrade that was free).

I liked that he gave me the pros/cons and/or why some people wanted certain things and others did not. Allowed me to make an informed decision on many things. They do not do doors but he is going to have a guy call me that he knows does good work. I pick out the door and get gets it and installs. I get the hardware myself and he installs that. I like this idea as then I don't need to pay a general... only the person installing the door.

This company _only_ replaces windows in existing homes. They don't do commercial and don't do new windows. They manufacture their own windows so they measure each one down to 1/8" so they fit perfectly.

Oh, and 60 month interest free financing so I'm paying $131/month. No reason to pay more as it's interest free (and I won't have any problem paying that off on 60 months).

Draiman
Let me see those devil horns in the sky
join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC

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That's good news. I hope it works out for you. Let us know after you have them done.

Kramer
Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA

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I started replacing my windows (house built 1972) a little more then a year ago. Did ten of them then. I was having vinyl siding put on and wanted to eliminate as much painting as possible. I started with 3 of the 4 sides of my second story. I think new windows would be a fantastic move. The older Windows need to be painted every 5 years and probably re-glazed every 10-15 years. Re-glazing is no fun. You will probably save the price of the new windows in about 15 years, just considering the painting costs. It will also help the resale value or in this day and age, resale ability. We had the contractor for the siding do them, but I wish I had just used Windows World. They would have been about 50 bucks cheaper ea. and a large company would have stood behind them. For everything but sliding doors Windows World charges $189/Window. A builder friend of mine recommends Windows World and used them for his home which part of was built in the early 1800s.
»www.windowworld.com/affo ··· dows.php


Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

said by Kramer:

I started replacing my windows (house built 1972) a little more then a year ago. Did ten of them then. I was having vinyl siding put on and wanted to eliminate as much painting as possible. I started with 3 of the 4 sides of my second story. I think new windows would be a fantastic move. The older Windows need to be painted every 5 years and probably re-glazed every 10-15 years. Re-glazing is no fun. You will probably save the price of the new windows in about 15 years, just considering the painting costs. It will also help the resale value or in this day and age, resale ability. We had the contractor for the siding do them, but I wish I had just used Windows World. They would have been about 50 bucks cheaper ea. and a large company would have stood behind them. For everything but sliding doors Windows World charges $189/Window. A builder friend of mine recommends Windows World and used them for his home which part of was built in the early 1800s.
»www.windowworld.com/affo ··· dows.php

The Window World here in Hampton Roads Va claims to guarantee them for life even if your kid throws a baseball through it. Can't verify that though.

Kramer
Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA

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Kramer

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The builder told me the same thing. You can replace the sashes easily yourself. With the windows I have which aren't from Windows World, they either pivot horizontally for cleaning or with a little more movement come completely out. I think the WW windows are the same.

Edit: Oh yes. Cleaning 2nd and 3rd story Windows can be an expensive proposition for many when they aren't easy to do. Almost all new windows make cleaning quite easy for the owner. I think the energy savings are minor, but all the other savings added to the energy savings are quite consequential.
tcope
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join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT

tcope to Kramer

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The company I went with is local and makes their own windows. They also install them themselves, which I like. They offer a lifetime guarentee (I'm sure only for defects). If any issues, I can just call them to correct. I haver 13 windows (some small, some a little larger) so they are about $500 each installed. This seems a little high but this includes labor and tax. From what friends have mentioned and from what I see online, this is about aveage for vinyl windows. I don't know if there is such thing as a "standard" replacement window... this company builds each one themselves based on actual measurements.

I have 2 windows in my basement that are single pane. I'm sure that cold air was sinking into the window wells and just pouring in threw those windows.

I think my utilities will stay about the same but I think the comfort level will improve. In the summer my electric bill is not more then $120 and usually $60-$80. In the winter my gas bill might go to $80 but is usually around $20. Of course it's normal that I have the AC at 78 in the summer and around 60 in the winter.

The "program" guy that came in was "questioning" my electric bill being at $120. I guess that is because even using that number, his calculations showed it would take 20 years to pay for their cost. He told me he thought my bill was actually probably around $220. . I just could not see paying $25,000 for their "program". I did install CFL in most fixtures (went with a few hybrids), I'm working on replacing two doors and will also insulate the over hang of the first floor.

Draiman
Let me see those devil horns in the sky
join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC

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$500 a window is on the high side for normal replacement windows. I installed top of the line Harvey Acoustical windows for about that price. They should be in the $350-400 ballpark. That's out the door prices. Maybe there is some extra labor for the basement windows or something. I'd try to get them down another 10% if nothing else.

cableties
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join:2005-01-27

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I paid $500 per Pella windows (E-rated, argon filled, aluminum clad wood) installed so your quote is kinda high for local, vinyl.
(ofcourse, I only had two rooms to remodel so YMMV)

(Op) I dislike vinyl and don't recommend it unless you don't care to live there awhile..
tcope
Premium Member
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT

tcope

Premium Member

As I understand, vinyl is pretty much the standard now. There is wood and fiberglass but fiberglass is more expensive and wood needs a lot of maintainence.
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tcope

tcope

Premium Member

Re: New Windows

Recently when it was about 30 degrees outside I shot temps. The wall around the windows were 63 degrees. The windows themselves were 53 degrees and the aluminum frames were 45 degrees. This does not include the cold air leaking in openings as well. I think the new windows will actually make a big difference in my case.

I went with all sliding windows, even in the basement as the R value should be the same. This way they also unlock from the tracks for easy cleaning.

Thing that kills me is that it take "6-8 weeks from start to finish". The guy who came out a few days ago to do the final measurements tells me it would probably be around the end of Jan. before they would be installed. I'd have hoped it would have only been a couple more weeks at the most. But this gives me more time to knock out the nasty tile stools. After they install the windows I'll go in and replace the stools with wood ones.

Draiman
Let me see those devil horns in the sky
join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC

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Yea Winter is the worst time to do replacement windows since the lead time is normally double or triple the normal because of increased demand. I prefer to do replacements in the middle of Summer since no one is thinking about them so it moves fast.

Msradell
Premium Member
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY

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said by cableties:

I paid $500 per Pella windows (E-rated, argon filled, aluminum clad wood) installed so your quote is kinda high for local, vinyl.
(ofcourse, I only had two rooms to remodel so YMMV)

(Op) I dislike vinyl and don't recommend it unless you don't care to live there awhile..

That's a great price for Pella windows! They get over $1000 apiece for them around here. Like you I dislike vinyl windows, I think they look cheap and not being able to paint the inside certainly limits your decorating choices!

There is a relatively new material for making windows, cellular PVC. It doesn't rot or deteriorate like wood but it can be painted easily unlike vinyl. Another advantage for manufacturers is that the same tools used for manufacturing wood windows can be used for it. Pricing is more than vinyl but less than fiberglass. We've had them about a year and are very very satisfied!
tomupnorth
join:2005-01-14
UpperMidwest

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Our house in So Central Texas has double-pane, gas-filled, aluminum single-hung windows throughout, and several of them have leaked such that they've fogged between panes. Naturally, these are in the fixed panes which would be a b*tch to get out owing to the fact that they are rocked-in (masonry-surrounded). A builder I talked to about these said that replacing them was a matter of actually cutting the old window out of its original metal frame (which of course was nailed to the 2x6 stud walls, then taped-around, and finally a rock wall was set around them).

Does anyone know about this process? I'm curious as to how it's done, e.g. do they just use a recip saw, or maybe an angle grinder to cut-out the old windows, then how to insert/secure the new? Can't seem to find any discussions/pics of this online anywhere.

I also want opinions on the value of gas-filled windows; every gas-filled window home I've ever lived in has suffered failures re: fogging eventually.

Sly
Premium Member
join:2004-02-20
Tennessee

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said by tcope:

But I'm betting they want to wrap my water heater. Its in my basement. I hold my hand against it and it's not even warm (house is 63 degrees). I have a feeling that they are going to want to charge me an arm and a leg to wrap it... just to make money.

You'd be surprised how much heat is lost through a water heater. I never could feel any heat on mine as well but once I insulated it, I stuck my hand under the insulation and it was quite warm.
Jacob Henry
join:2012-11-30

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Vinyl replacement windows come mounted in a new jamb, and are simply tilted into the old frame and fastened in place.
tcope
Premium Member
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT

tcope

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I'm reading their website and they talk about their windows coming in multi chambered frames. Yup, watched the youtube video and these have frames. They over hang on the outside in order to provide a good seal with the siding.
79949762 (banned)
join:2010-07-24

79949762 (banned)

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Can you post the image of the window here? i wish to replace my old windows.
tcope
Premium Member
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT

tcope

Premium Member

Yup, I'll do it this evening and post some photos of the stools that I have removed.

John97
Over The Hills And Far Away
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join:2000-11-14
Spring Hill, FL

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I am looking at replacing all the windows in my "new to me" house. They are aluminum-framed, single-pane, totally non-insulated and are original to the house (built in 1985). Half of them don't open, of the ones that do, half of those won't stay open. A few of them have cracked panes, and all of them let in a ton of outside noise and leak a bunch of air.

There are 11 windows total. Three are average-size double-hung windows (2 bathrooms and laundry room). The windows in the rest of the house (all of the bedrooms, the living room, and dining room) are monster two and three light picture windows with sliders that are all 6-8 feet long. Some of those are up to 5-feet tall.

The replacement windows are double-pane vinyl, argon gas-filled, and are hurricane/impact rated as is now required by code for my area.

I got a price to do it all for $15k. I've had windows replaced before in my old house up north, but have no idea what to think of this price because practically all of these windows are just gigantic.

ImpldConsent
Scouts Out
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join:2001-03-04
North Port, FL
·Comcast XFINITY

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I replaced all 22 of our wooden framed, single pane (contractor grade) windows on our 20yr old house using Window World 4000 series. I hated my old windows when I bought the house new, but couldn't afford replacement at the time. There is a VERY noticeable reduction in outside noise and drafts and the slight tint has a more luxurious appearance. There is no longer the hot spaces on the floors that my pets used to like. The cleaning and maintenance used to be a chore, but is a no brainer now (except that my wife make me do the big or high windows).
Of all the stuff that I've upgraded in the house, the window upgrades have NEVER been in the possible 'regret' arena.

...now about those Goodman ACs I did 10yrs ago... that's 'nother thread ... AARRGGGG
tcope
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join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT

tcope to 79949762

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said by 79949762:

Can you post the image of the window here? i wish to replace my old windows.

Not sure if you wanted to see the old or new windows but I have the old windows so far. I posted them in an album for review:

»picasaweb.google.com/100 ··· rectlink

After I took these I discovered one that was even worse. The window did not even reach all the way tightly to the bottom so I had placed some rubber weather striping int he lower sill (it's an unused room where I keep the door shut and almost never go in there).

I've removed tiles from two of the five windows. On one window the tiles came out clean. The others... not so much. Most of the cement (I really think they used cement) came out also in chunks. There is also some chicken wire in it. I think I'll leave it like it us until they put the new windows in and then just use some mastic to put in new stools.

»lh5.googleusercontent.co ··· 2529.JPG

I saw some PVC sills at Home Depot that were very nice. They are a matte white and look just like wood. They have a rounded front already.

»www.sill-rite.com/media/ ··· e03.html
tcope

tcope

Premium Member

This tile is proving to be a real pain in the butt! The first window was very clean but after that, it turned into a real pain to remove. I think they laid it right onto cement... not tile adhesive. There is some wire in the cement as well. I've manged to avoid exposing it in all but 2 places.

There is one window where the window was installed on top of the tile. I'm someone will need to remove small bits once the window is removed.

In the meantime I've picked up some cement and after I get the tile removed I'm going to apply it in order to smooth everything out and make it level. I'd rather have solid cement under the new windows.

Window with tile underneath



Half way through



Clean



I know this will be a pain

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