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drew
Radiant
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
kudos:6

Intel to Kill Off Replaceable CPUs

»semiaccurate.com/2012/11/26/inte···with-it/

quote:
In a story that SemiAccurate has been following for several months, Broadwell will not come in an LGA package, so no removable CPU. The news was first publicly broken by the ever sharp PC Watch, english version here, but the news has been floating in the backchannel for a bit now. The problem? This information wasn’t floating around the OEMs or the majority of the PC ecosystem, they had no clue. What does all of this mean? Quite a bit.

The most direct effect is that of Broadwell, the 14nm successor to next year’s Haswell CPU, will essentially shut out the enthusiast. Motherboards will still be available, but the CPUs that come with them will be soldered down. In addition to being a inventory management nightmare, OEMs won’t buy CPUs any more, the few remaining mobo vendors and ODMs will. As a side effect, it also cuts the enthusiast out of the picture for good, but more on that later.

Wow. This can't actually be true, can it?
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drew
Radiant
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And another, maybe more reliable source: »www.extremetech.com/computing/14···dable-pc
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Ghastlyone
Premium
join:2009-01-07
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reply to drew
Do people really replace their CPU's that often without replacing their motherboards?

If I'm upgrading to a newer CPU, more then likely I'm buying a newer, better motherboard also.

I can see enthusiasts that "side grade" their CPU's often, getting angry over this. But I raelly don't see the huge issue.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
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join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
said by Ghastlyone:

Do people really replace their CPU's that often without replacing their motherboards?

I have done it on two renewals, and I'm thinking of doing it again. I went from the Q6600 to a Q9650. I have a 2600K and may or may not go to the 3770K.
--
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El Quintron
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reply to drew
Don't want to jump the gun, but this would be terrible if it were true, and it could only happen if there wasn't any competition. So here's hoping AMD pulls its head out of its ass and starts competing properly ASAP.l
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Blockfire
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do you think the that enthusiasts spend enough money to even give this a tad bit of weight? I don't think so anymore, i think computing for the general masses will be more mobile and therefore, people like us or who build their own computers, will not even be an afterthought.


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to drew
I think its possibility,….

Intel currently offers the unlocked K series for enthusiasts wanting to overclock (for now,..) but I suspect the numbers there are significantly lower then non “K” series and these never warranted their own existence (by the numbers buying them).

As I said in another thread I would be OK with it if Intel allowed for separate CPU / motherboard combs for a nominal fee,….like the “K” series,…..for however long that lasts,…..

Enthusiasts are a minority, a vocal minority but a minority nonetheless,…


El Quintron
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reply to Blockfire
said by Blockfire:

do you think the that enthusiasts spend enough money to even give this a tad bit of weight? I don't think so anymore, i think computing for the general masses will be more mobile and therefore, people like us or who build their own computers, will not even be an afterthought.

What irks me about this, is that you now have two points of failure; the Mobo, and the CPU. If one breaks then the other is toast, it's going to be pretty wasteful if you consider the price of a top end CPU.

Secondly this type of thinking is typical monopolist garbage, and we wouldn't be having this conversation if AMD was a valid competitor in the high end market.

Hopefully this is not the future.

If Intel does go this route, hopefully there will still be room for an enthusiast segment, and the Motherboard manufacturers will be be able to cut a bargain... or AMD or someone else (Nvidia?) will be able to supply the enthusiast market.
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Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
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join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
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reply to drew
This would be terrible news for us DIYers if true. Haswell is supposed to land Q2 of 2013, so this is a couple years out.

me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
reply to drew
Even if Intel does try to do this, they still have to get the mobo manufacturers to go along with it.


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
Oh you mean the motherboard manufacturers that have to deal with bent pins. When Intel moved the pin design to the motherboard’s socket they knew they were having the support for bent pins pushed on them.

Besides there are a number of motherboards that come with built in CPU now to say nothing of Intel’s upcoming Intel Next Unit of Computing (NUC).

If this does happen the bill of materials goes up for the motherboards but what is the alternative,….being pushed out of the market or coming up with a workaround,….?


CylonRed
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join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
I have yet to figure out how anyone can bend a pin - at least with the AMDs - they are decently robust. Can only put the CPU in one way and when lined up it just drops in.

I will admit - most of the time I replace both since I go 3-5 year in between builds but I would like to be able to have the option...
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ctggzg
Premium
join:2005-02-11
USA
kudos:2
reply to DKS
said by DKS:

I have a 2600K and may or may not go to the 3770K.

I almost made that mistake recently until I realized it would only be about an 8% boost.


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to CylonRed
said by CylonRed:

I have yet to figure out how anyone can bend a pin - at least with the AMDs - they are decently robust. Can only put the CPU in one way and when lined up it just drops in.

I will admit - most of the time I replace both since I go 3-5 year in between builds but I would like to be able to have the option...

I think the Intel LGA is a bit more fragile then the AMD offering. I wouldn't want to install and remove the CPU repeatedly on an Intel system.

Does AMD still use ZIF or something similar? One thing I didn't like about AMD sockets is that in some cases the TIM may create a kind of weld that can pull the CPU right out of the socket when removing the HSF. This can't happen with the Intel retention clamp design.


drew
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kudos:6
FWIW, the socket design on the AMD Phenom X2 5400+ series sucks balls.

The socket literally ripped off the board when trying to mount the HSF - I'd done numerous replacements and upgrades with the same kind of socket style and HSF style, so I knew what I was doing. It just broke.

Way too much pressure in the wrong spots... why do I have a flat-head screw driver in a tiny little socket with that much force exerted on it when PCB isn't that tough?
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FourWheelKid

join:2006-03-03
Broussard, LA
reply to drew
»hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1···39357539
Looks like they're not going to provide Broadwell as a traditional (not sure of the term) package, but higher-clocked Haswell products instead.


drew
Radiant
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join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
kudos:6
I like seeing that!


Octavean
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join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to FourWheelKid
I hope that is correct,....

WhyMe420
Premium
join:2009-04-06
kudos:1
reply to ctggzg
said by ctggzg:

said by DKS:

I have a 2600K and may or may not go to the 3770K.

I almost made that mistake recently until I realized it would only be about an 8% boost.

Agreed. Who the heck would go from 2600k to 3770K except those with more money than sense. Personally with a 2600k @ 4.3 GHz I will be waiting for Haswell or even Skylake depending on how things progress.


Blockfire
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reply to El Quintron
said by El Quintron:

What irks me about this, is that you now have two points of failure; the Mobo, and the CPU. If one breaks then the other is toast, it's going to be pretty wasteful if you consider the price of a top end CPU.

this is what they want, means they make more money selling parts to everyone instead of selling them peicemeal to enthusiasts.


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to drew
The Intel EE series of processors has been around for some time and fundamentally unattainable to many due to price, yet it still endures. I suspect that Intel would still give enthusiasts a more traditional option but would charge accordingly. This is a very Intel like tactic.

We all knew that the market was trending away from powerful (power efficiency be damned) desktops.

When the trend first became known to me all I could think was “what idiot would want to pay more for a less powerful platform that is hampered by battery / power efficiency and mobile needs?”. I still feel the same way but the answer is clearly the vast majority.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to drew
IIRC Broadwell is to be the mid-low CPU.

the highend (IE 2011) will still be the top.

Makes sense as the 1150 was always a low-end econo socket.

I can see intel making the mid/low-end just like the atoms and built on board but not the highend 2011 and xeons

serge87

join:2009-11-29
Reviews:
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reply to Blockfire
said by Blockfire:

do you think the that enthusiasts spend enough money to even give this a tad bit of weight? I don't think so anymore, i think computing for the general masses will be more mobile and therefore, people like us or who build their own computers, will not even be an afterthought.

Yeah! Screw that annual $12.5 billion pocket change!

/s

serious?


Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
kudos:19
reply to CylonRed
said by CylonRed:

I have yet to figure out how anyone can bend a pin - at least with the AMDs - they are decently robust. Can only put the CPU in one way and when lined up it just drops in.

I will admit - most of the time I replace both since I go 3-5 year in between builds but I would like to be able to have the option...

I haven't bent a pin on a CPU since the 90's. Pins were of a different breed back then.... like some of the older video cables and some of the older PS2 keyboard cables.

I've noticed they've reinforced a lot of the PS2/VGA cables over the last several years while they were being phased out... or maybe I just don't have bent pin issues anymore. Who knows.
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El Quintron
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reply to serge87
said by serge87:

said by Blockfire:

do you think the that enthusiasts spend enough money to even give this a tad bit of weight? I don't think so anymore, i think computing for the general masses will be more mobile and therefore, people like us or who build their own computers, will not even be an afterthought.

Yeah! Screw that annual $12.5 billion pocket change!

/s

serious?

I think this was cleared up as a rumour upthread... but thanks for posting the link. That's a serious chunk of change, and I'm glad we're non-negotiable part of the market.
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Koil
Premium
join:2002-09-10
Irmo, SC
kudos:2
reply to Ghastlyone
said by Ghastlyone:

Do people really replace their CPU's that often without replacing their motherboards?

If I'm upgrading to a newer CPU, more then likely I'm buying a newer, better motherboard also.

I can see enthusiasts that "side grade" their CPU's often, getting angry over this. But I raelly don't see the huge issue.

It's not even necesarily about upgrading, but the fact that different motherboards offer different features at different feature levels. The reason I may choose mobo A over B could be a drastic difference and they're assuming that they can encompass all needs in one mobo? I highly doubt this and really hope this is just rumor mill or niche market BS.
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Cthen

join:2004-08-01
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reply to drew
This will only piss off all customers in the long run. When they take their machine into a shop for repair of course a tech will let them know that the CPU is just fine, it is the mobo that went bad. They will have to tell the customer that just mobo cannot be replaced but rather have to buy a whole new combo which will cost even more.

It's nothing more than Intel trying to almost guarantee the sale of their CPUs to someone.

This could also be a good PR move for AMD as well if they are smart enough to take advantage it.
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1
reply to drew
This article talks about putting the chipset on the cpu, not having the cpu directly soldered to the mainboard.

I highly doubt they are going to do this...

»www.neowin.net/news/intel-broadw···-chipset

"According to the slides shown by ComputerBase.de, the “Broadwell” microarchitecture will push the integration process to its limits by merging the PCH with the CPU: Broadwell will be produced on a 14 nanometers node and will be based on a “Multi Chip Module” design – ie a single package will contain both the CPU+GPU core and the chipset controller."


Anonymous_
Anonymous
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reply to Ghastlyone
said by Ghastlyone:

Do people really replace their CPU's that often without replacing their motherboards?

If I'm upgrading to a newer CPU, more then likely I'm buying a newer, better motherboard also.

I can see enthusiasts that "side grade" their CPU's often, getting angry over this. But I raelly don't see the huge issue.


The biggest issue is frying it once you fry the MB it's trash.

Seems like a money grab more then ever.

YEAH but WE WANT A LONGER warranty at lest 5 year minimum fully transferable, full coverage.
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David
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reply to drew
As someone who shops for price and small upgrades in between if intel is that short sided, I can be an AMD fan real quick! my quad core (which was a single core processor before the upgrade) was a nice $50 upgrade on the cheap. I went from a single core "Lima" to a quad core in one change.

I can easily afford upgrades like that, if I had to do proc and board each and every time I wouldn't upgrade very often.
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