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Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to drew

Re: Intel to Kill Off Replaceable CPUs

The Intel EE series of processors has been around for some time and fundamentally unattainable to many due to price, yet it still endures. I suspect that Intel would still give enthusiasts a more traditional option but would charge accordingly. This is a very Intel like tactic.

We all knew that the market was trending away from powerful (power efficiency be damned) desktops.

When the trend first became known to me all I could think was “what idiot would want to pay more for a less powerful platform that is hampered by battery / power efficiency and mobile needs?”. I still feel the same way but the answer is clearly the vast majority.



DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to drew

IIRC Broadwell is to be the mid-low CPU.

the highend (IE 2011) will still be the top.

Makes sense as the 1150 was always a low-end econo socket.

I can see intel making the mid/low-end just like the atoms and built on board but not the highend 2011 and xeons


serge87

join:2009-11-29
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to Blockfire

said by Blockfire:

do you think the that enthusiasts spend enough money to even give this a tad bit of weight? I don't think so anymore, i think computing for the general masses will be more mobile and therefore, people like us or who build their own computers, will not even be an afterthought.

Yeah! Screw that annual $12.5 billion pocket change!

/s

serious?


Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
kudos:19
reply to CylonRed

said by CylonRed:

I have yet to figure out how anyone can bend a pin - at least with the AMDs - they are decently robust. Can only put the CPU in one way and when lined up it just drops in.

I will admit - most of the time I replace both since I go 3-5 year in between builds but I would like to be able to have the option...

I haven't bent a pin on a CPU since the 90's. Pins were of a different breed back then.... like some of the older video cables and some of the older PS2 keyboard cables.

I've noticed they've reinforced a lot of the PS2/VGA cables over the last several years while they were being phased out... or maybe I just don't have bent pin issues anymore. Who knows.
--
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. -MLK


El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
Premium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
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reply to serge87

said by serge87:

said by Blockfire:

do you think the that enthusiasts spend enough money to even give this a tad bit of weight? I don't think so anymore, i think computing for the general masses will be more mobile and therefore, people like us or who build their own computers, will not even be an afterthought.

Yeah! Screw that annual $12.5 billion pocket change!

/s

serious?

I think this was cleared up as a rumour upthread... but thanks for posting the link. That's a serious chunk of change, and I'm glad we're non-negotiable part of the market.
--
Support Bacteria -- It's the Only Culture Some People Have


Koil
Premium
join:2002-09-10
Irmo, SC
kudos:2
reply to Ghastlyone

said by Ghastlyone:

Do people really replace their CPU's that often without replacing their motherboards?

If I'm upgrading to a newer CPU, more then likely I'm buying a newer, better motherboard also.

I can see enthusiasts that "side grade" their CPU's often, getting angry over this. But I raelly don't see the huge issue.

It's not even necesarily about upgrading, but the fact that different motherboards offer different features at different feature levels. The reason I may choose mobo A over B could be a drastic difference and they're assuming that they can encompass all needs in one mobo? I highly doubt this and really hope this is just rumor mill or niche market BS.
--
I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something. And I will not let what I cannot do interfere with what I can do.- Edward Everett Hale

My Blog - Raising Connor


Cthen

join:2004-08-01
Detroit, MI
Reviews:
·Verizon Wireless..
reply to drew

This will only piss off all customers in the long run. When they take their machine into a shop for repair of course a tech will let them know that the CPU is just fine, it is the mobo that went bad. They will have to tell the customer that just mobo cannot be replaced but rather have to buy a whole new combo which will cost even more.

It's nothing more than Intel trying to almost guarantee the sale of their CPUs to someone.

This could also be a good PR move for AMD as well if they are smart enough to take advantage it.
--
"I like to refer to myself as an Adult Film Efficienato." - Stuart Bondek



Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1
reply to drew

This article talks about putting the chipset on the cpu, not having the cpu directly soldered to the mainboard.

I highly doubt they are going to do this...

»www.neowin.net/news/intel-broadw···-chipset

"According to the slides shown by ComputerBase.de, the “Broadwell” microarchitecture will push the integration process to its limits by merging the PCH with the CPU: Broadwell will be produced on a 14 nanometers node and will be based on a “Multi Chip Module” design – ie a single package will contain both the CPU+GPU core and the chipset controller."



Anonymous_
Anonymous
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127.0.0.1
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reply to Ghastlyone

said by Ghastlyone:

Do people really replace their CPU's that often without replacing their motherboards?

If I'm upgrading to a newer CPU, more then likely I'm buying a newer, better motherboard also.

I can see enthusiasts that "side grade" their CPU's often, getting angry over this. But I raelly don't see the huge issue.


The biggest issue is frying it once you fry the MB it's trash.

Seems like a money grab more then ever.

YEAH but WE WANT A LONGER warranty at lest 5 year minimum fully transferable, full coverage.
--
Well, does your car at least turn into something else? Sometimes I turn it into a trashcan. Hmm...


David
I start new work on
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join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
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Reviews:
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reply to drew

As someone who shops for price and small upgrades in between if intel is that short sided, I can be an AMD fan real quick! my quad core (which was a single core processor before the upgrade) was a nice $50 upgrade on the cheap. I went from a single core "Lima" to a quad core in one change.

I can easily afford upgrades like that, if I had to do proc and board each and every time I wouldn't upgrade very often.
--
If you have a topic in the direct forum please reply to it or a post of mine, I get a notification when you do this.
Koetting Ford, Granite City, illinois... YOU'RE FIRED!!



EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada
Reviews:
·voip.ms
reply to Ghastlyone

said by Ghastlyone:

Do people really replace their CPU's that often without replacing their motherboards?

If I'm upgrading to a newer CPU, more then likely I'm buying a newer, better motherboard also.

I can see enthusiasts that "side grade" their CPU's often, getting angry over this. But I raelly don't see the huge issue.

Yes, and sometimes more than once per board.
--
~ Project Hope ~


ValuedClient

@151.190.0.x
reply to drew

There still may be a market for a replaceable CPU. The new solder type CPU could be placed in a pin carrier and then be placed in a socket motherboard. But my real concern is that usually when a computer fails, it is never the CPU. It is the motherboard or a peripheral. So much for repair and replacement of failed components.


ds7

join:2012-11-07
Montpelier, VT
reply to drew

As slashdotters pointed out, this (if it's true) will impair selection. It won't be economical for Intel to produce combination units equivalent to all the possible combinations of boards and processors available now.

So the prospect is, if you want the better CPU you have to buy the combo with expensive features you don't want. Or to get, say USB3 or more RAM slots or whatever, you have to pay more for the next-model CPU you don't need.

It's sort of a power grab too - they expect to gain all the business the mobo makers are currently doing. Then if AMD fades away, Intel will be a super-monpolist. At that stage, look for price hikes and remote-control technologies.


brianiscool

join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL
kudos:1
reply to drew

That is a dumb idea. Especially if you upgrade your CPU a lot or a damaged component.


markf

join:2008-01-24
Burlington, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
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·ELECTRONICBOX
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reply to EUS

said by EUS:

said by Ghastlyone:

Do people really replace their CPU's that often without replacing their motherboards?

If I'm upgrading to a newer CPU, more then likely I'm buying a newer, better motherboard also.

I can see enthusiasts that "side grade" their CPU's often, getting angry over this. But I raelly don't see the huge issue.

Yes, and sometimes more than once per board.

I just upgraded an old 775 E5200 to an E8500. Runs much better and for the $40 makes a good "mid life" upgrade for cheap.

To move to a Core i3 based solution I'd need a CPU, MB, RAM, looking at $300. I've done the eBay mid life upgrade to my last 2 computers.

If Intel goes through with this, my longstanding Intel only loyalty will change and I will look at AMD. I don't buy high powered PC's (for my HTPC) so AMD would meet my needs just fine.


Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1
reply to Octavean

said by Octavean:

said by CylonRed:

I have yet to figure out how anyone can bend a pin - at least with the AMDs - they are decently robust. Can only put the CPU in one way and when lined up it just drops in.

I will admit - most of the time I replace both since I go 3-5 year in between builds but I would like to be able to have the option...

I think the Intel LGA is a bit more fragile then the AMD offering. I wouldn't want to install and remove the CPU repeatedly on an Intel system.

Does AMD still use ZIF or something similar? One thing I didn't like about AMD sockets is that in some cases the TIM may create a kind of weld that can pull the CPU right out of the socket when removing the HSF. This can't happen with the Intel retention clamp design.

something like this happened to me today but on a intel P4 system, went to remove the HSF and the cpu came right out of the socket without lifting the arm on the socket.
--
It's NOT Ni-kon It's NE-KON!




LG is NOT Lifes Good It's Lucky Goldstar!



CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
reply to Octavean

Yes - they use a ZIF - been running AMD since the late 90's and replaced several CPUs. Never had then do anything but list right out. Even for CPUs in systems for 3 years straight.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain



Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to Subaru

For what it's worth I have found a way around this.

Basically you just want to break the weld between the surfaces before lifting the HSF off the processor. I find a slight twisting motion can break the weld if present.

I have heard of AMD processors being pulled right out of the socket by removing the HSF way before it happened to me. So IMO its one of those things that doesn't happen until it does,....unless you know how to avoid it,...which I now do.

With ZIFF the pins are tenuously held once the leaver is closed. With LGA there is a metal bracket that clamps down on the package heat spreader and is locked into place.

The only way I see an LGA bracket failing like this is if the socket / assembly wasn't attached to the motherboard properly, the locking mechanism failed or was never engaged properly.



Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1

On this board (A Dell system) I don't think I could twist the heat sink is nice enough for me to use on some LED projects nice and thick but it was impossible to twist but that would be the normal way I would of did if I could not break the seal.

The dell uses this large plastic base in which the HSF sits in not allowing it to twist.



Koil
Premium
join:2002-09-10
Irmo, SC
kudos:2
reply to drew

AMD commits to socketed CPU future

»www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2···ockets/1

While Intel is remaining silent on rumours that its future processor families will be provided in a soldered-down ball-grid array (BGA) package only, AMD has stepped forward to publicly state that it plans to support swappable CPUs for the foreseeable future.

The rumours, attributed to industry sources speaking to a Japanese technology news site, claim that Intel is to cease production of its land-grid array (LGA) processor packages in favour of using BGA packaging throughout its product ranges. Unlike LGA, which connects to the motherboard through a zero insertion force (ZIF) socket that allows the processor to be easily removed and replaced, BGA chips are permanently soldered to the board and cannot be removed without melting the solder.

It's a technique Intel and others already use in the embedded market and for laptop processors, where the extra footprint of a ZIF socket would be unacceptable. It's also something which has been used historically in desktop systems, where early processors were sometimes soldered directly to the board when manufacturers didn't want to pay for adding sockets. In recent years, however, the practice has fallen out of fashion in favour of giving users the ability to easily swap out a processor.

For motherboard makers, it allows for a wider range of product offerings than would be possible were processors tied to a motherboard. It also allows enthusiasts to easily upgrade to a faster processor without having to change motherboards, or to replace a chip which has failed due to overclocking or a cooling experiment gone wrong.

Intel, for its part, has refused to comment on the rumours that the days of user-replaceable processors are coming to a close - leaving rival AMD an opportunity to score some points. 'AMD has a long history of supporting the DIY and enthusiast desktop market with socketed CPUs and APUs that are compatible with a wide range of motherboard products from our partners,' AMD's Chris Hook has claimed in a statement to press. 'That will continue through 2013 and 2014 with the 'Kaveri' APU and FX CPU lines. We have no plans at this time to move to BGA only packaging and look forward to continuing to support this critical segment of the market.

'As the company that introduced new types of BGA packages in ultrathin platforms several years ago, and today offers BGA-packaged processors for everything from ultrathin notebooks to all-in-one desktops, to embedded applications and tablets, we certainly understand Intel's enthusiasm for the approach. But for the desktop market, and the enthusiasts with whom AMD has built its brand, we understand what matters to them and how we can continue to bring better value and a better experience.'

At present, AMD's statement is little more than points-scoring: Intel has not formally stated that it has any such plans to remove LGA products from its roadmap. With that said, the company has also failed to release a statement assuring customers that it will not switch to a BGA-only production schedule - leaving the door open for statements like the above from its rivals assuring enthusiasts that while Intel may or may not care about them, they can rest assured that their needs will be catered for in the future.


--
I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something. And I will not let what I cannot do interfere with what I can do.- Edward Everett Hale

My Blog - Raising Connor


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1

1 edit

Removed post,….

Seemed kind of mean hearted but was intended to be funny,…



Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to drew

quote:
Intel to Provide Socketed CPUs for "The Foreseeable Future"

Provided Intel's idea of the "foreseeable future" doesn't end at 2014, PC enthusiasts can breathe a sigh of relief as it came out with a statement saying it is committed to socketed CPU platforms. "Intel remains committed to the growing desktop enthusiast and channel markets, and will continue to offer socketed parts in the LGA package for the foreseeable future for our customers and the Enthusiast DIY market," said Intel spokesperson Daniel Snyder, adding "However, Intel cannot comment on specific long-term product roadmap plans at this time, but will disclose more details later per our normal communication process."

»www.techpowerup.com/176721/Intel···ot-.html

mythology
Premium
join:2002-10-16
Seneca, SC
reply to drew

AMD could use a sales boost. This will do it.



Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12

Read the thread. it was debunked.