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This is a sub-selection from Pricing


88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
reply to Telco

Re: Pricing

said by Telco:

Also amazing is how VZ charges more than double Japan for FIOS. Even when considering we have more people, which lowers the cost,

Not when those people are spread out over much more area. Japan has half the population of the US in an area the size of Montana. Or basically imagine having everyone in the US live in Texas. Then sure I would think that FTTH and LTE would be cheaper.

Telco

join:2008-12-19

3 edits

2 recommendations

said by 88615298:

Not when those people are spread out over much more area. Japan has half the population of the US in an area the size of Montana. Or basically imagine having everyone in the US live in Texas. Then sure I would think that FTTH and LTE would be cheaper.

We also have large Metro Areas like NYC, DC, Boston, Chicago, LA, etc etc, which still have 1 maybe 2 choices and cost double and up. Whereas, I was able to choose from about 9 networks when I was overseas: 2 cable providers, 2 Wimax, 5 ADSL2+ networks, and a plethora of resellers.

In addition, can you explain how and why data services in nations with a lower population density than America also cost less? We have the highest data and cellular costs amongst the OECD, yet also offer some of the slowest speeds.

Our current market and the monopolies the dominate it, is precisely what happens when you use this hands-off (no Government) Laissez-faire approach.


88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
said by Telco:

We also have large Metro Areas like NYC, DC, Boston, Chicago, LA, etc etc, which still have 1 maybe 2 choices and cost double and up. Whereas, I was able to choose from about 9 networks when I was overseas: 2 cable providers, 2 Wimax, 5 ADSL2+ networks, and a plethora of resellers.

Rich evil greedy corporations I guess. That's what you want to hear at any rate.

In addition, can you explain how and why data services in nations with a lower population density than America also cost less?

Like Canada? That's sarcasm in case you didn't get that.


TKJunkMail
Premium
join:2005-12-09
said by 88615298:

said by Telco:

We also have large Metro Areas like NYC, DC, Boston, Chicago, LA, etc etc, which still have 1 maybe 2 choices and cost double and up. Whereas, I was able to choose from about 9 networks when I was overseas: 2 cable providers, 2 Wimax, 5 ADSL2+ networks, and a plethora of resellers.

Rich evil greedy corporations I guess. That's what you want to hear at any rate.

In addition, can you explain how and why data services in nations with a lower population density than America also cost less?

Like Canada? That's sarcasm in case you didn't get that.

Another ad hominem attack instead of providing an answer. Didn't expect any less I suppose.
Expand your moderator at work

Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
reply to 88615298

Re: Pricing

said by 88615298:

Rich evil greedy corporations I guess. That's what you want to hear at any rate.

Though you say it in just, that is exactly the problem with a mixture of Laissez-faire approach he mentioned.


bbeesley
VIP
join:2003-08-07
Richardson, TX
kudos:5
reply to Telco
said by Telco:

Our current market and the monopolies the dominate it, is precisely what happens when you use this hands-off (no Government) Laissez-faire approach.

It's a bit unfair to compare us to Japan. As has already been pointed out, providers there enjoy a much more dense population. It's much easier - i.e. less cost - to fiber up an MDU than is is a residential neighborhood.

Additionally, there are different regulatory requirements and benefits to service providers in Japan than in the U.S.

I suppose we could seek to have our government intervene and require 1Gbs connectivity everywhere and pay for it out of our tax money but I am not sure that would end up giving us the best service as citizens in the long run - I refer to this article to base my distrust of our government being effective »Verizon Still Screwing West Virginia, Even After Leaving State

It should be noted that most of the telcos and MSOs are actively looking for ways to increase their capabilities (EPON, DOCSIS channel bonding and next gen DOCSIS) and I think they will continue to chase consumer demand for better performance and the dollars that are associated with them

that is to say, I trust their greed to drive them to meet consumer demand more than a I trust the competency of the government to do it effectively via regulation

Still, I find it amusing that every time we see a post about some other country or city getting better speeds we have so many people popping up and like an indolent Veruca Salt screaming "I want it, I want it now!"

Broadband performance in the US is doing pretty good. It wasn't all that long ago that I thought I was pretty happy with my 128K ISDN connection that cost me $120 a month for the phone line and $50 a month for my ISP.

bn1221

join:2009-04-29
Cortland, NY
reply to 88615298
IIRC Japan's gov't also paid a large chunk for the fiber rollout directly, not via subsidies like our gov't did


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to Telco
said by Telco:

We also have large Metro Areas like NYC, DC, Boston, Chicago, LA, etc etc ...

Greater Tokyo + Keihanshin (Kyoto/Kobe/Osaka) - 53,250,984 souls.
NYC Metro + Chicago Metro + LA Metro - 41,187,051 souls.

Just combining the two most populous metro regions of Japan, the three most populous metro regions of the U.S. and comparing them.

Of course, Greater Tokyo + Keihanshin comprise a little under half the population of Japan.

NYC Metro + Chicago Metro + LA Metro comprise a little over one tenth the population of the United States.

Just saying. FWIW.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Telco

join:2008-12-19

1 edit
reply to 88615298
said by 88615298:

Rich evil greedy corporations I guess. That's what you want to hear at any rate.
...
Like Canada? That's sarcasm in case you didn't get that.

I'm not going to get into a pointless discussion where you spout out talking-points from faux news and Rush. The fact is that with the exception of ourselves and Canada, the rest of the OECD pay much less, receive faster services, and have significantly more options.

Surely folks who are apparently 'experts' in economics and capitalism (cough cough) would grasp the benefit of competition. You know, as in having more companies than just monopolies and duopolies.

Those of us who learned deductive reasoning, critical thinking and even something as simple as reading an economics book, realize that competition benefits the American people - but lowers profits.

Therefore, while these businesses talk a big game about the free market and no regulation, staying a monopoly secures and entitles them to hefty profit margins.

Telco

join:2008-12-19
reply to bbeesley
Doing "pretty good" compared to what exactly? RWer gut-feelings maybe.

We used to lead the world, whereas, today we are constantly ranked close to dead last in everything but defense.

I am sure the GOP base is happy with this, heck look at the condition of red states. However, the rest of us want to propel the country forward again. Being not bad or okay is not good enough.

Telco

join:2008-12-19
reply to NormanS
Population density (per sq mi)

Tokyo: 16,000
NYC: 27,243
Chicago: 11,864

Not to mention, our carriers have enormous buying power, which should further reduce the cost of capital. As do the aforementioned points of paying half the wages, significantly lower taxes, and so forth.

Kamus

join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX
reply to 88615298
said by 88615298:

said by Telco:

Also amazing is how VZ charges more than double Japan for FIOS. Even when considering we have more people, which lowers the cost,

Not when those people are spread out over much more area. Japan has half the population of the US in an area the size of Montana. Or basically imagine having everyone in the US live in Texas. Then sure I would think that FTTH and LTE would be cheaper.

Your argument falls flat on it's face on high density areas such as Los Angeles, New York, Miami, etc.


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to 88615298
The population density excuse is just that, an excuse.

The real reason is because we have a system that protects incumbents and blocks competition, so they overcharge us just because they can.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to 88615298
said by 88615298:

Rich evil greedy corporations I guess.

Despite your misplaced sarcasm, yes, that is exactly it.

Captive market, blocked competition, maximize revenue. The entire problem in a nutshell.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
Expand your moderator at work


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to Telco

Re: Pricing

said by Telco:

Population density (per sq mi)

So? You were talking "metro areas"; I showed you "metro areas".
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to bn1221
I believe NTT is 30% owned by the Japanese government.

Telco

join:2008-12-19
reply to KrK
The irony is that in America we have both states and cities that have higher and lower population density. As we all know, higher density lowers the cost per sq mi.

Therefore, there isn't any rational reason as to why highly populated states (Texas, Cali, and NY) do not have a range of competitors (options).

Which is why it all comes down to the market being deliberately manipulated and skewed in their favor - to maximize profits. It's no different to organized crime eliminating competition.