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horacebork
Premium
join:2011-03-17
09001
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·voip.ms

voip is digital - why use an ata?

i'm beginning my conversion to voip and have been trying to research as much as possible. am getting further, but am stuck on one thing: voip is digital, so why would i want to use an ata device to connect to my voip provider?

maybe it's a very stupid question, but isn't there a voip adapter that leverages digital sound? or is everyone just using ata adapters and moving on with things.

sorry to ask such a bottom end question.
--
".. the sofa has just vanished." ".. well, that's one mystery less."

garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
·Callcentric
An ATA just allows one to use legacy analog equipment with VoIP. I have an analog wall phone in the kitchen that reads off the CID string out loud when a call comes in, that's nice. I also have a multi-handset DECT wireless set, that's nice, too. It works, we only talk to others with cell phones or other PSTN connections so there's no need for HD voice.

As for an ATA that can use "digital sound," if you mean a high def. codec, then no. Analog phones are not able to produce sounds that go outside of the G711 resolution range so there'd be no point.


mgraves1
Premium
join:2004-04-05
Houston, TX
kudos:1
reply to horacebork
I can see two perspectives on this:

1. I prefer SIP phones or SIP/DECT phones as they are often more capable than an analog phone paired with an ATA.

»www.mgraves.org/2008/10/cordless···ess-ata/

2. There may be cases where you need to leverage existing analog gear

»www.mgraves.org/2008/10/small-of···e-cheap/
--
Michael Graves
Houston TX
»www.mgraves.org


brg

join:2001-01-03
Chicago, IL
kudos:1
reply to horacebork
My reason was because it was lot's cheaper than buying a new digital phone.

Like garys_2k, I already had a really nice 3-handset, 2-Line Dect 6 multi-line analog cordless phone system. Replacing that with an equivalent digital phone at the time I moved to VoIP would have been expensive.

Similarly, and again like garys_2k, everyone whom I talk to uses either a cell phone or a POTS phone. I can think of 3 people, max (2 serious PBX tinkerers; one getting there) who might themselves even invest in a digital phone. Only one of them has.


jimk
Premium
join:2006-04-15
Raleigh, NC
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to horacebork
For home use, there's nothing wrong with an analog phone. They are simple to use and simple to set up. The average person doesn't need any more functionality than what can be found in a basic $20 desk phone or sub-$100 multi handset cordless system.

ATAs are simple to set up - especially the OBi devices. You can plug several phones into them and they all ring at the same time without messing with anything other than the initial configuration.

As far as sound quality goes, an ATA is just fine. A large number of people have considered that the relatively poor sound quality of mobile phones is good enough to use as their only phone, so clearly sound quality isn't that huge of a factor for most people.

For businesses with several people, the benefits of IP phones are a lot more clear.

IPfaxer

join:2010-10-24
reply to horacebork
ok - to answer your question
we have a customer with 20 incoming POTS lines
they did not like the cost of the POTS lines
they had no features from the telco provider (just dial tone and roll over)
they had a phone system (Iwatsu) from 10-20 years ago already wired throughout their building with Iwatsu handsets. phone system in basement is as big as a refrigerator
wiring in building only done to accomodate the phone system (1 pair of wires to each office - non-twisted basically, western telephone wire) - historic building
cost too high to re-wire for all new phones
want to use VOIP for features, lower cost
their phone system did not even offer an voicemail
solution: VOIP lines mated into their old phone system with ATAs (in this case, we use an ATA which is made for a business and does and converts lots of VOIP lines to analog, not just 1 or 2 or 4)
results: minimal equipment purchase (just enterprise ATA device to convert all VOIP lines to analog), cost savings from VOIP lines, features from VOIP (voicemail, etc...)

that is a business example of using VOIP and ATAs

for a brand new install, where ethernet wiring available and no phone system exists, we would use digital handsets and likely no ATAs except where needed for a legacy device

we might use a PBX server offsite or else onsite for a lot of lines

Grandstream, for example, makes some excellent and affordable digital handsets for example that are in most price ranges for small business and even home users

nonymous
Premium
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ
reply to horacebork
I have an obi 110 for I think when I bought it around $50 . Then a 5 handset panasonic with answer machine (wife still prefers answering machine to voice mail) for another $60 or so on clearance. It works fine for home use and heck others calling may be on a cell anyways. For the same sip/dect phone setup would cost a lot more unless catch a real bargain.

arnstein

join:2011-01-28
reply to horacebork
I have VoIP service and I use an ATA with it. My reason is simple: the current generation of Panasonic POTS cordless phones are simply outstanding, and inexpensive too. I need an ATA to use the Panasonic phones with VoIP.


horacebork
Premium
join:2011-03-17
09001
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·voip.ms
wow, lots of great input. thanks so much to all.. i think i get it.

re: telephone itself: i have an 'ok' 2.4ghz uniden base w/2 remotes. i was thinking of getting dect 6 phones to replace it.

i think that will be the solution then. voip.ms is recommending the cisco spa 112, but seems like overwhelming popularity/reliability of the obi100 or obi110 trumps that.
--
".. the sofa has just vanished." ".. well, that's one mystery less."

rblizz

join:2001-12-16
North Richland Hills, TX
said by horacebork:

i think that will be the solution then. voip.ms is recommending the cisco spa 112, but seems like overwhelming popularity/reliability of the obi100 or obi110 trumps that.

The Cisco SPA 112? Really? As far as I know (besides Cisco) they're the only ones suggesting the 112. If it's just one line and you're really cheap (like me), you could get a used (reconditioned) Linksys SPA 1001 for $16.99 ($20.49 total for postage to the United States) at ...

»www.ebay.com/itm/UNLOCKED-Linksy···d6ec6099

I can vouch for this seller as I've bought a few SPA1001s from him -- all have been genuine with the newest firmware. But a new OBi100 is not much more, and that will let you add a Google Voice line if you want it.


crazyk4952
Premium
join:2002-02-04
united state
kudos:1
Reviews:
·CenturyLink
·Vitelity VOIP
·Charter
·Callcentric
reply to horacebork
said by horacebork:

i'm beginning my conversion to voip and have been trying to research as much as possible. am getting further, but am stuck on one thing: voip is digital, so why would i want to use an ata device to connect to my voip provider?

maybe it's a very stupid question, but isn't there a voip adapter that leverages digital sound? or is everyone just using ata adapters and moving on with things.

sorry to ask such a bottom end question.

I first started using voip a few years ago and chose to purchase an ATA and use a set of cordless phones with it. My reason was simple: cost. I spent $50 on a Linksys PAP2T-NA and I was able to use the cordless phone system that I had already. At that time, the cordless IP phones that I found were way too expensive for my budget. And, I did not want to use a desk phone.

I would later realize that using an ATA with analog phones lead to several call-quality problems that I thought were just typical of voip (such as echo and DTMF talk-off).

After switching out my ATA for a Gigaset C610A-IP IP-based phone, I've been much happier!

rblizz

join:2001-12-16
North Richland Hills, TX
said by crazyk4952:

I would later realize that using an ATA with analog phones lead to several call-quality problems that I thought were just typical of voip (such as echo and DTMF talk-off).

I'm lucky enough not to have had any echo issues with my ATA. Not sure what DTMF "talk-off" is. I realize that not every ISP and router is the same, though.


crazyk4952
Premium
join:2002-02-04
united state
kudos:1
Reviews:
·CenturyLink
·Vitelity VOIP
·Charter
·Callcentric
said by rblizz:

I'm lucky enough not to have had any echo issues with my ATA. Not sure what DTMF "talk-off" is. I realize that not every ISP and router is the same, though.

DTMF talk-off is when your ATA mistakes sounds that it hears (i.e. your voice) for you pressing buttons on your phone. When this happens, the ATA will send the tone through. Very annoying to the person on the other end!

grand total

join:2005-10-26
Mississauga
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
·Anveo
reply to horacebork
said by horacebork:

wow, lots of great input. thanks so much to all.. i think i get it.

re: telephone itself: i have an 'ok' 2.4ghz uniden base w/2 remotes. i was thinking of getting dect 6 phones to replace it.

i think that will be the solution then. voip.ms is recommending the cisco spa 112, but seems like overwhelming popularity/reliability of the obi100 or obi110 trumps that.

I had older-than-the-hills Panasonic pre-DECT 6.0 cordless phones and needed a new ATA because the old one died. So since I needed both I replaced them with a Panasonic KX-TGP500 and matching KX-TPA50 handset. I'm very happy with the result and the cost was not too much more than a new ATA and new phones. I'm expecting them to last at least as long as the last Panasonic phones I bought i.e. 20 years.
--
DPC3825 (bridged mode) - WRT610N + Tomato - Panasonic KX-TGP500 - Asterisk 1.8.11.0 with Asterisk GUI on Virtual Server
Anveo - FreePhoneLine - Voxbeam - Numbergroup - Callcentric - VoIP.MS - Localphone - UKDDI

rblizz

join:2001-12-16
North Richland Hills, TX
reply to crazyk4952
said by crazyk4952:

DTMF talk-off is when your ATA mistakes sounds that it hears (i.e. your voice) for you pressing buttons on your phone. When this happens, the ATA will send the tone through. Very annoying to the person on the other end!

Thanks. I guess I'm lucky enough not to have had that issue either.

PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
DTMF talk-off issues predate VoIP.

Bell Labs was concerned about this decades ago, and many companies since then....

Female voices are more likely to trigger.

sarahportman

join:2012-10-31
reply to horacebork
There is two reason why some still use ATA (including me) it is cheap and very easy to set up. The features of ATA is more reliable and they give high quality output. So until now ATA is still trusted by many.


n1zuk
making really tiny tech things
Premium
join:2001-10-24
Malta
kudos:2
reply to horacebork
Sound is analog. There is no such thing as "digital sound".

Converting the representation of sound from analog to digital can take place anywhere you want -- from the phone in your hand, to the CO of the telephone company.
--
Smoke 'em if you got 'em


horacebork
Premium
join:2011-03-17
09001
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·voip.ms
said by n1zuk:

Sound is analog. There is no such thing as "digital sound"....

ok ok. not *that* wet behind my ears..

i suppose what i'm asking is more along the lines of: which kind of phone should i be using with my digital voip service? the ones that you plug in a cat5 or rj45 line?

maybe i'm making an assumption here: aren't there some voip adapters that have cat5 *out* to the phone?
--
".. the sofa has just vanished." ".. well, that's one mystery less."


horacebork
Premium
join:2011-03-17
09001
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·voip.ms
reply to grand total
anyone else have an opinion about Panasonic KX-TGP500?
i cannot even find the product on panasonic's website.
there are vendors on the web, mostly unknown name.
amazon has it thru other vendors. newegg sells it *above* list.
--
".. the sofa has just vanished." ".. well, that's one mystery less."

PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms

1 edit
said by horacebork:

anyone else have an opinion about Panasonic KX-TGP500?

I have a closely related Panasonic which is discussed in this thread. I like it a great deal. We use it at my office. That purchase was a special deal that AFAIK is not available any more.
»Panasonic KX-TGP551T04

PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms
reply to horacebork
said by horacebork:

anyone else have an opinion about Panasonic KX-TGP500?

i cannot even find the product on panasonic's website.

It certainly is on their website.
»www.panasonic.com/business/psna/···500.aspx

And it's sold by Amazon AND by well-known folks like VoipSupply.
»www.voipsupply.com/panasonic-kx-tgp500

Also e4Voip:
»8774e4voip.com/panasonic-kx-tgp500

These are well-known sellers of VoIP equipment.

Please understand, someone like Newegg is [not] the place for VoIP equipment.

garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
·Callcentric

2 edits
reply to horacebork
said by horacebork:

said by n1zuk:

Sound is analog. There is no such thing as "digital sound"....

ok ok. not *that* wet behind my ears..

i suppose what i'm asking is more along the lines of: which kind of phone should i be using with my digital voip service? the ones that you plug in a cat5 or rj45 line?

maybe i'm making an assumption here: aren't there some voip adapters that have cat5 *out* to the phone?

No, IP phones plug directly into your router and each is setup directly to your provider(s). Any phone-to-phone handoff or call sharing takes place via settings with the provider.

(Edit: You can have your own pbx on site, like Asterisk, and take care of this call handling and routing yourself. In this case your provider simply is an incoming and/or outbound "route").

That is one point of simplicity with a single line analog setup with an ATA: You can transfer a call from phone to phone using conventional "hold" on phone 1 and just picking up phone 2. You can share a conversation just by picking up the second phone while a conversation is going on via phone 1.

rblizz

join:2001-12-16
North Richland Hills, TX
reply to PX Eliezer70
said by PX Eliezer70:

DTMF talk-off issues predate VoIP.

Bell Labs was concerned about this decades ago, and many companies since then....

Female voices are more likely to trigger.

And, the change in a woman's when she gets pregnant can trigger this in certain systems. My brother was working with a tech where this problem suddenly cropped up. He asked, "this is going to sound strange, but are you pregnant?" "Yep." I would have never had the guts to ask. (I hadn't heard the term "DTMF talk-off" but I'm aware of the issue.)

PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Amazing.

Here's a recent study.

Pregnancy and voice: changes during the third trimester.
»www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22578433

garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
The stuff I learn here... !


horacebork
Premium
join:2011-03-17
09001
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·voip.ms
reply to PX Eliezer70
said by PX Eliezer70:

It certainly is on their website.
»www.panasonic.com/business/psna/···500.aspx

dang! honest i looked. =(

said by PX Eliezer70:

And it's sold by Amazon

.. by *third parties* on the amazon site - not exactly the same buying experience.

said by PX Eliezer70:

AND by well-known folks like VoipSupply.
»www.voipsupply.com/panasonic-kx-tgp500

Also e4Voip:
»8774e4voip.com/panasonic-kx-tgp500

These are well-known sellers of VoIP equipment.

ah, now, this is more like what i am very thankful for: endorsements of online vendors, which i haven't heard of before.

said by PX Eliezer70:

Please understand, someone like Newegg is [not] the place for VoIP equipment.

hmm.. thanks for the info. not sure how i woulda figured that out without your valuable input.

thanks px eliezer
--
".. the sofa has just vanished." ".. well, that's one mystery less."

Dan_voip

join:2007-01-03
Saint-Hubert, QC
kudos:4
reply to horacebork
said by horacebork:

In your case an IP phone it's a better choice since you don't want to keep using your phone.
Panasonic KX-TGP551T04 recommended by PX it's a very good choice, another good one discussed on this forum it's Gigaset C610A IP.


horacebork
Premium
join:2011-03-17
09001
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·voip.ms
said by Dan_voip:

Panasonic KX-TGP551T04 recommended by PX

thanks for the info. looked at it, but the base unit is *corded*. a bit surprising these days. the KS-TGP500 is just about the same thing except all handsets are identical and just communicate with the 'adapter' box.
--
".. the sofa has just vanished." ".. well, that's one mystery less."

grand total

join:2005-10-26
Mississauga
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
·Anveo

1 recommendation

reply to horacebork
said by horacebork:

ah, now, this is more like what i am very thankful for: endorsements of online vendors, which i haven't heard of before.

I'm not sure it matters where you place your order. I bought my base unit and extension from different vendors on Amazon. They both left the same facility in Austin TX on the same day within an hour of each other and travelled via different carriers arriving at their destination within an hour of each other. My point is that most vendors do not hold stock these days and yours will probably be dispatched from Austin no matter which vendor you buy from.
--
DPC3825 (bridged mode) - WRT610N + Tomato - Panasonic KX-TGP500 - Asterisk 1.8.11.0 with Asterisk GUI on Virtual Server
Anveo - FreePhoneLine - Voxbeam - Numbergroup - Callcentric - VoIP.MS - Localphone - UKDDI