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pipigor
Undecided

join:2000-04-12
Dingmans Ferry, PA
reply to CGMason14

Re: Verizon is using Sandy as an excuse to force people to FiOS

my parents were hit by sandy... their current bill would be twice as much if they would sing up for fios. how is that possible?


vze089

@verizon.net
This thread is kinda funny, POT's is more reliable than fiber? Do you know how many times VZ workers have to change the copper pairs at both my location and at the CO because of the unreliability of the copper. The only bad part with my Fios experience, we have bad power and the plug the battery backup is plugged into is a GFCI and it was constantly getting tripped when we had sags in power. 8 Hr backup time? I think mine was down for at least a day of course internet and tv didn't work but the phone still does.

Fiber has a lower TCO than copper plus, just like the cable company, the government can not have as much control as they do copper.

jcondon

join:2000-05-27
Fishkill, NY
reply to pipigor
said by pipigor:

my parents were hit by sandy... their current bill would be twice as much if they would sing up for fios. how is that possible?

For phone and/or Internet? I was under the impression that in either case the price was supposed to be the same for either a year or two anyway?


eddie731

@verizon.net
reply to vze089
said by vze089 :

This thread is kinda funny, POT's is more reliable than fiber? Do you know how many times VZ workers have to change the copper pairs at both my location and at the CO because of the unreliability of the copper. The only bad part with my Fios experience, we have bad power and the plug the battery backup is plugged into is a GFCI and it was constantly getting tripped when we had sags in power. 8 Hr backup time? I think mine was down for at least a day of course internet and tv didn't work but the phone still does.

Fiber has a lower TCO than copper plus, just like the cable company, the government can not have as much control as they do copper.

first of all it's POTS not POT's. Second there are advantages and disadvantages to fiber and copper.


PoloDude
Premium,VIP
join:2006-03-29
Northport, NY
kudos:3
Besides the power needs of FiOS, Please list the other advantages/ dis-advantages of each.

pipigor
Undecided

join:2000-04-12
Dingmans Ferry, PA
reply to jcondon
you were under wrong impression..

Gres7

join:2001-03-05
Brooklyn, NY
Speaking of reliability FioS vs Copper.
In my household I have 2 copper lines and 1 Fios line.

During Sandy: Using my FiOS line- I could NOT dial anywhere!
I was getting busy signal right after dialing last digit. And people could not get through to me as line was busy! Very annoying (and good luck trying to reach Fios people at that time).

At same time -I had ZERO problem on my copper lines IN or OUT.

List your pro/cons as much as you want, copper is here to stay in my house.

nyrrule27

join:2007-12-06
Howell, NJ
untill they force migrate you to fiber and you wont have a choice. they did it in Bartonsville, Texas and also in wesley chapel fl.

»www.fiercetelecom.com/st ··· 11-08-12


danclan

join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA
reply to Gres7
said by Gres7:

List your pro/cons as much as you want, copper is here to stay in my house.

Not really no, the all fiber infrastructure is coming whether you like it or not. Copper is dying, slowly and surely.

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
said by danclan:

said by Gres7:

List your pro/cons as much as you want, copper is here to stay in my house.

Not really no, the all fiber infrastructure is coming whether you like it or not. Copper is dying, slowly and surely.

Wrong. Verizon has said they'll never, ever give us Fios, even though it's available 600 feet from here.

nyrrule27

join:2007-12-06
Howell, NJ
i have to agree...it prob isnt coming either. but if they wanted to they could force migrate you. they are doing it on the jersey shore. hence this thread.


jricha83

@verizon.net
reply to CGMason14
I got the same letter, and called about it. Verizon is not replacing copper if damaged in any way, and is hoping to require all copper users to go to fiber. I was told that the reason is the bottom line: house calls to fix copper-related problems are being phased out, and replaced by a central help desk for fiber. The permanent dial tone with copper is accomplished via standby batteries at central stations where there are also standby generators to keep those batteries charged. That is true, by the way. I lost landline dial tone for about 20 minutes early in Sandy, then it was restored. I'm in a suburb, so, unfortunately, this upgrade was the final reason to install a standby generator, which is expensive. The other straw is that my basement dry well fills up with water during monster rains, so I need to put a portable sump pump into the dry well - but the pump requires electricity. Incidentally, I have my own Netgear Ethernet router, with an Actiontec MI424WR-E between it and the COAX cable. The solution to using both turned out to be simple: put them on separate IPv4 subnets, and run a CAT5 (or CAT6) cable from a LAN port on the Actiontec router to the WAN port on the Netgear router. I configured the Actiontec's IP address and IP Distribution range to use subnet "2" by changing the 3rd octet from 1 to 2. In plain English, that means that the Actiontec's IP address is now 192.168.2.1, and the addresses it assigns to computers plugged into its LAN ports start with 192.168.2.2 and increment. The Netgear router's address continues to be 192.168.1.1, and computers plugged into it are assigned addresses from 192.168.1.2 on. Each router has a DHCP, but they play well together, because they work on separate subnets. It took several calls to FIOS solutions to figure this out, but it works wonderfully, and is really simple.
Expand your moderator at work

VirtualLarry
Premium
join:2003-08-01
Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME
reply to jricha83

Re: Verizon is using Sandy as an excuse to force people to FiOS

said by jricha83 :

I was told that the reason is the bottom line: house calls to fix copper-related problems are being phased out, and replaced by a central help desk for fiber.

The real reason is that the copper techs are all union, and the FIOS techs are not.

It's about gaining monopoly control over the network (no pesky telco regs), and busting unions.


reallarry

@verizon.net
said by VirtualLarry:

said by jricha83 :

I was told that the reason is the bottom line: house calls to fix copper-related problems are being phased out, and replaced by a central help desk for fiber.

The real reason is that the copper techs are all union, and the FIOS techs are not.

It's about gaining monopoly control over the network (no pesky telco regs), and busting unions.

copper and fios techs are both union. real reason is vz doesnt want to maintain 2 parallel networks. if u owned vz would u want to pay to maintain copper and fiber?


miataman

join:2010-10-27
Chelmsford, MA
kudos:1
Bottom line;
Copper is regulated
Fiber is unregulated
--
"My hat, my cane, Jeeves".


Pathfinder
Dazed Confused
Premium
join:2000-03-26
Mount Vernon, NY
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon FiOS
reply to VirtualLarry
said by VirtualLarry:

said by jricha83 :

I was told that the reason is the bottom line: house calls to fix copper-related problems are being phased out, and replaced by a central help desk for fiber.

The real reason is that the copper techs are all union, and the FIOS techs are not.

It's about gaining monopoly control over the network (no pesky telco regs), and busting unions.

There are not two separate entities. A tech is a tech. They are all union.

jophan
Premium
join:2009-07-12
Jenkintown, PA
reply to miataman
Bottom line;
Copper is regulated
Fiber is unregulated
Also not entirely true. It depends on the services you have. POTS is regulated, DSL is not. If you transfer to FiOS for maintenance reasons and resist being upsold to a package, your voice will still be regulated and the data will still be non-reg.


tito79

join:2010-03-14
Brewster, NY
kudos:1
reply to CGMason14
All Verizon techs, installers, repair are union.


bhan261

join:2001-02-12
New York, NY
FiOS techs are union...BUT...in our co-op building, the conduit and junction boxes were installed by a non-union contractor. The actual fiber and equipment was pulled by union techs. Part of the reason why it took almost 6 months from the start of the installation process until we could order FiOS was the almost 2 month delay between the work the non-union contractor did when the union FiOS techs started their work.


Eddy120876

join:2009-02-16
Bronx, NY
reply to CGMason14
Lucky you that already have FIOS us poor folks here in the Bronx section of Fordham road still waiting for it. Even thought we have a small community children's hospital that has a FIOS line for over 3 years. Yes I know if you have your own building you can pay for VZ to come install the fiber line but come on the demand is there and if the landlord is the issue then go door to door and leave us the consumer a notice stating that our landlord is not willing to allow VZ on to the premises.

trudy

join:2013-02-15

1 recommendation

reply to alchav
Verizon is doing its best to force the people in my area, to the point of harassment.

It's sent out installers to convert people to fiber with no advance notice. It's tried twice to force me to do this since the Feb 2013 blizzard, even though the only reason the copper service went down in this area is because Verizon had removed the backup generators for copper from the central office. It is backup now, of course.

It's lied to me about why ("you have made many reports of problems with your phone" - that's one report six years ago.) It's lied to me about what the installer was going to do("oh, it's not fiber.") It's ignored my phone calls to customer service saying I do not want to change.

If fiber gets to having the power failure protection copper used to have before Verizon deliberately took that away, then I'll change voluntarily. If they yank the copper without that, I and everyone else I know in my small community is going to cable phone service.

Both the Verizon people I talked to about the fiber installation said they had to tell their supervisors what my reasons were for not taking fiber, and it was pretty clear they would get in trouble for not accomplishing this.

trudy

join:2013-02-15

1 recommendation

reply to nothing00
Plus, the customer has to pay for a new battery when the battery reaches its end of life, and they get to install it themselves. The local cable company replaces the battery free and does it themselves.

nyrrule27

join:2007-12-06
Howell, NJ
Comcast is going to start charging for the battery too

»Comcast to Start Charging For XFINITY Voice Backup Batteries

rebus9

join:2002-03-26
Tampa Bay
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·Bright House Net..

1 recommendation

reply to trudy
said by trudy:

If fiber gets to having the power failure protection copper used to have before Verizon deliberately took that away, then I'll change voluntarily. If they yank the copper without that, I and everyone else I know in my small community is going to cable phone service.

Out of curiosity, why would you switch to cable phone service? Is it just a matter of principle, or do you think the cable phone service will stay up indefinitely in a power outage like copper POTS does?

If it's because of power, you'll be in for an ugly surprise because neither fiber nor coax delivered phone lines are powered by the provider. In a blackout, both will only live for 6-10 hours (give or take) before your CPE equipment runs out of power and the line goes dead-- unless you've provisioned extra on-site power like a generator or extra batteries.


PoloDude
Premium,VIP
join:2006-03-29
Northport, NY
kudos:3

2 recommendations

Many people on cable found out the hard way that they will loose phone, even when the lines did not go down. The local node requires power. When those batteries die you are out of service. So for those that do have a generator, you are still better being on FiOS . It is a passive network.
--
“My horse fights with me and fasts with me because if he is to carry me into battle, he must know my heart and I must know his or we shall never become brothers.
-Plenty Coups, Chief of the Crow”


Eddy120876

join:2009-02-16
Bronx, NY
reply to CGMason14
Ok let me get this straight. One person says verizon is wrong to charge you for a new battery but thats normal if you purchase anything and it requires batteries you are responsible for it. Then again Cable operators if they notice that the competition charges they will do the same and then come up with commercials saying "where is the savings" yet you wonder How the F*ck are this prick talking about when they are doing the exact same thing. Thats another reason why I hate cable corps is bait and switch monthly. When it comes to cellphones I hate contracts that restrict you but i can see their good points too, but when it comes to cable I would prefer a contract that would keep my rates intact and not seen a insane price increase monthly.


nycdave
Premium,MVM
join:1999-11-16
Melville, NY
kudos:17

2 recommendations

reply to trudy
said by trudy:

It's tried twice to force me to do this since the Feb 2013 blizzard, even though the only reason the copper service went down in this area is because Verizon had removed the backup generators for copper from the central office. It is backup now, of course.

What evidence do you have that Verizon removed the backup generators from the central office? All Verizon central offices have backup generators for ALL services fed out of the office, including copper and FiOS...Now if the CO lost backup power due to severe flooding or any other natural disaster, that's a different story. Verizon lost backup power at some CO's in the NYC area after Superstorm Sandy, but the backup generators were never REMOVED from the CO's....


danclan

join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA

1 recommendation

I believe there is Federal if not State level requirements for CO's and other essential services sites to have backup electrical services. That includes phone, water, NG and other services so that the public is not impacted but natural, terrorist or plain stupid human event.

Earthlinky

join:2013-02-15
Forest Hills, NY
reply to CGMason14
Your complaining about getting brand new Fiber optic cables in town?

I can't even get them to install FIOS. Hurricane Sandy wiped out old infrastructure but the rebuilt infrastructure will be a lot better and more modern.

Here I can't even get FIOS. It is coaxial cable plants only and the service is horrible from both of them. I have been trying to get FIOS in and am still trying but so far nothing has come of it unfortunately.